Talking about stallion grading

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And to add to the variation- my little man ( in my sig, the one with the white snip) who was by the I.D Kensons Aragorn and out of a TBx Trak mare, looks like he has absolutely no Irish Draught in him at all! He was predominantly a thoroughbred type-

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Yep - perfect example. Kenson's Aragorn, who I had on breeding loan last year and have 4 pure-bred foals by, is actually quarter TB (he's about 19 now and hails from the time when a 3/4 ID colt was eligible for grading on inspection. Three of my Ari foals definitely show that dash of TB quality - the 4th is the incredible bulk!
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Ari himself is very 'typey' as an RID (wouldn't have graded otherwise) but does have a very elegant head and neck compared to many RID stallions. He also got to Adv. Medium dressage and could have gone a lot higher if he'd started rather younger than he did (he hunted and show-jumped first!) Sadly, Ari is now retired (with his owner 'delphipuppy') - his one graded RID stallion son, Bowland's Bradley, was sadly lost very soon after grading. I'm just hoping one of my two boys by him will be good enough to follow in his footsteps!
 
Hi Volatis! Nice to see you.
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You certainly do the homework of a dedicated breeder. I don't know anyone who has taken the time and trouble to go and see as many different European stallions as you have.

Interesting post Ciss. You are clearly someone who believes in breeding for Olympic champions! I was surprised at some of the things you posted though. Firstly while I support the Futurity wholeheartedly and think it is a great idea for British breeding I don't have the same amount of faith as you in the judges being able to spot the outstanding individuals of tomorrow when they are just a foal. If it was that easy all the top breeders would buy the future superstars at weaning!

I hope you are right that the UK bred performance horses will end up with less OCD than their contintental cousins but this is in no way certain is it? OCD is multifactorial and the way the horse is reared is only one factor. If the UKs horses do turn out to be sounder than the European ones not only would that be a major selling point for UK youngstock it may also make the Europeans change the way they bring up horses. Or is that wishful thinking?

I do disagree about the amount of Irish blood that is introduced into European studbooks. It may not be entered under its original breed but Irish horses and others do end up in the Dutch gene pool fairly often as mares of unknown parentage. They are taken into the lowest studbook based on their competition record, bred to a KWPN stallion, the offspring grades into a higher book than the dam and so on.

I really don't understand the resistance warmblood studbooks have to Irish horses. Even UK warmbloods reject Irish blood. Why? We know they cross well with warmbloods, just look at all the outstanding Cavalier Royale offspring there have been over the past couple of decades. Most of those were out of mares with Irish Draught blood. I really believe that if the SHB(GB) encouraged breeders to use the best of British blood, the sound, sane, tough horses that we've ridden and loved for years and judiciously mix them with the best European warmbloods while being careful to keep the soundness and easiness of the UK bloodlines I think they could develop something unique and special. Why try to copy the Germans and the Dutch? They've been doing it far longer than we have and have cornered the market. UK buyers believe that continental horses are better than UK ones. We must all know someone who has struggled to sell a horse in the UK, sent the horse to Europe and sold the horse at a much increased price to a British buyer from a German/ Dutch/ Belgian yard!!!

This next paragraph may be one that other people do not agree with however here goes... I'm fairly worried about the way a lot of breeders are using more and more line breeding. It is not yet quite as bad as in dogs but most pedigree dog breeds have lost 90% of the gene pool they had in the 1940s because of the inbreeding that has been done. If they were wild animals the narrowness of their genetics would mean they would be declared "endangered". If you talk to any geneticist the healthiest, longest lived, most vigorous offspring come from the F1 cross. That is 2 unrelated individuals that are themselves from fairly small gene pools. In other words the ID x TB. Fertility problems are starting to show up in the warmbloods although whether that is due to line breeding or substances given to help them mature early I don't know. Shortened life spans are also starting to become apparent but perhaps this doesn't matter? Do breeders breed for sound 25 year old horses or is it OK for the horse to be unlikely to make beyond their teens? There is no doubt that lack of genetic diversity within an individual causes a generalised lack of well being. Is this the way we want British breeding to go?

And finally something that I am seeing more and more in successful young dressage horses (especially those with German lines) is a long and lax hind pastern. The fetlock touches the ground on every step, even in walk. I do not see this type of movement in any Grand Prix horses. The horses who move like this and have got part way up the grades are often off for months/years with soundness issues. Many disappear before they reach medium level dressage. I don't understand why this conformation is being actively bred for? Yes it is often allied with huge paces but there is so much more to a dressage horse than their paces! Surely we should be breeding for long term soundness as well as talent?
 
For a non-breeder interested in dressage horses, this post is among the most fascinating things I've read in a long time.

I grew up surrounded by Irish show jumpers in the late 1980s/ early 1990s, when the Irish Sports Horse was very successful in SJ-ing. I can also say that OCD was pretty much unheard of among our horses. Our next door neighbour was the vet to the Irish team, and I used to follow him around like a shadow. Never even heard the term OCD.

Now I ride dressage horses in the UK. The majority are European bred, mainly Dutch, German or Danish. And yes, the term OCD has entered my vocabulary. I own a very talented horse who is the epitome of the modern dressage horse: big moving, loose, supple, Dutch bred, and, unfortunately, has been operated on for OCD lesions in the hock.

If I could take the movement of the modern warmblood and the soundness and temperment of the best ISHs, you would have something rather special. If this is possible.

Also, when I lived in Ireland, dressage was simply not on the radar. Now, it is becoming very popular. I think it is just a matter of time before a top Irish breeder teams up with a decent GP dressage rider to start producing an Irish dressage horse.........
 
Halfstep I think you're right about the Irish dressage horse. It is only a matter of time. They can have good movement, they do have good brains and they do tend to be sound.

The last Advanced class I did had 4 horses in it, two ID x TBs and two warmbloods. The ID x TBs came first and second!
 
Are there moderators on this forum
to me brit breeder seems to be on the personal vendetor to what I have no idea, surely that kind of behaviour is not encouraged!

My only comment to add is stunning horses janet, particularly the bay, and did those doubters on the authenticity of the irish sports horses notice the breed of 7 olympic meadal winners in the eventing this year and the breed of the majority of the british team!
 
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Are there moderators on this forum
to me brit breeder seems to be on the personal vendetor to what I have no idea, surely that kind of behaviour is not encouraged!


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There are Admin who can ban users, and delete posts. I don't think it is to anyone's advantage to do that. I have found Britbreeder and KenRehill's posts educational; had I not read their contributions, I may have accidentally been tempted to use their services.
Now, forewarned is forearmed, as they say, and I certainly wouldn't want anything to do with such unprofessional people. On the other hand, although I don't get along with ID blood (they all try to kill me
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) my opinions have altered in favour of this breed, and of JanetGeorge.
Free speech rocks!
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Are there moderators on this forum
to me brit breeder seems to be on the personal vendetor to what I have no idea, surely that kind of behaviour is not encouraged!


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There are Admin who can ban users, and delete posts. I don't think it is to anyone's advantage to do that. I have found Britbreeder and KenRehill's posts educational; had I not read their contributions, I may have accidentally been tempted to use their services.


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britbreeder just hates hunting - and therefore me. I don't care - I've been hated by experts and had the hate mail, the razor blade rigged letters, the lot! I have developed a remarkably thick skin and find it almost amusing (if pathetic) that people go to such lengths and make total t*ts of themselves in the process.

It would be a shame if britbreeder was banned - particularly when I've gone to the trouble of using her 'ignore user' button - but worse if this threa was deleted as a result as - despite her silly rants - the thread has developed into a very interesting and useful discussion (and attracted some valuable new members along the way!)

And thanks, Shilasdair, for your kind remarks. Be assured that when an ID tries to kill you, it's nothing personal. EITHER his sense of humour has got a bit carried away with itself - or he's a frightened little soul trapped in a huge body - and can't quite manage to make his legs work in correct sequence!
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Aragorn is actually home with me at the moment and I do not have the facilities or inclination to stand a stallion. He is very fit and well and enjoying being King of the Yard.
My other stallion is in training and Andy Pandy collects from him there.
 
Yes, the RID is rather more 'refined' today than it was 50 years ago and the 'draught' part IS misleading (although pure-bred RIDs can be fantastic carriage horses you wouldn't want to do too much ploughing behind them!
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)

I was told many years ago by some very knowlegable ID people that in fact the Draught was misspelt and should have read Draft as they were drafted into the army in the early 1900's. This I think has given a misconceived idea of the purpose of this breed.



I was also told that the Irish (being astute businessmen) would breed for the market and the substance of the ID varied all the way through the last century depending on demand, after the need for the cavalary declined some were crossed with draught horses and made heavier when the demand was for meat! I know the breed standards are very strick about white markings and this is due to the Clysdale influence that was notable in certain areas during the meat era!! It was then lightened up again when the sport horse market started to take hold.

Hope I haven't repeated what others have already said!
 
laraghhamilton_2006_2.jpg

Irish National Dressage Champion 2006 "Claggan Roxy Music" - by Rakish Paddy RID

Nope, definitely not dressage horses.
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Wowee! He is super!

Love this thread - I'm learning such a lot about IDs - fascinating.

I did wonder if the 'Draught' bit was misleading - the pure IDs I have seen certainly don't look like plowing horses! Maybe a name-change would help their image?

Does anyone have more photos of 'typey' RIDs? I would love to see a few more really good examples, to get a better idea of what the breed standard is? (Sorry - I know you've all got better things to do than educate me - just if you happen to have some nice photos already to hand.)
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The son of the above Blue Rajah ID....out of Roma Balinrobe Day ID

Im his very proud Mum..... and he is also being aimed at dressage so we will see wont we!!
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Does anyone have more photos of 'typey' RIDs? I would love to see a few more really good examples, to get a better idea of what the breed standard is?

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Well I just HAPPENED to be sorting some pics from our mare inspections last Monday - so here are a few RID mares & fillies. I know what I think, I know what the Inspectors thought (and I didn't necessarily agree in every case
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) - so test your knowledge. I won't give any hints about age etc. - you be the judge!

Number 1:

Trio-grade.jpg


Number 2:

Maggie.jpg


Number 3:

Karina.jpg


Number 4:

Cleo-Insp.jpg


Number 5:

Diamond.jpg
 
Ok, I know nothing about IDs or their breed standard, so I am going to have a go, based on which horses look most likely to kill me with a fear factor correlating with how ID I think they are
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Number 1 - head seems a little coarse, neck short, shoulder upright, long in loins, short in croup, forearm, and gaskin. I don't think this horse looks likely to murder me. Fear factor 2/5
Number 2 - nicer head, and neck, with more sloping shoulder. Bit long in the back, and seems slightly light of bone from what I would expect. The feet are quite small, too, and the gaskin short. This horse looks as though it may try to attack Shils given half a chance
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. 4/5
Number 3 - Nice head, neck and generally good front end. Some trouble in the loin/croup area, and quite hollow in the back so I'm guessing an established broodmare. Comparatively long in all four pasterns, and the hind cannons.
This looks like the producer of Shils killers to me. 5/5
Number 4 - I don't like this one very much, sorry. It has a nice enough head and neck, but the shoulder looks too straight, and the wither maybe a bit loaded. Strange things going on in this back too - slightly roached back. Looks very similar to Number 2 but I don't think this will be likely to churn out Shils assassins either. 2/5
Number 5 - Looks much more like the type of horse Shils would avoid...says ID to me. Bit massive in the front end, not so much behind. Looks as though it has quite a lot of bone. Looks like a Shils slayer. 4/5

See, I told you I knew nothing, despite being forced to view IDs in Ireland years ago...Kildalton Gold, could it have been?
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Going to stick my neck out too- I actually like the first horse best of all; think it has very nice limbs- I LIKE the long loin relative to the cannon and was told (& indeed have found) that it suggests a horse that can jump. Is there a downside to it? I think its a young horse and will make up. (Now you'll tell me it 20...) Alright- the neck & shoulder are a bit plain, but still I like it. Shame this isn't video & we could see them move. (Sorry JG- don't want much, do I).

I once saw a lovely old horse, Paddy's Pride, (dead now) going from ordinary trot into an accelerated trot, like an extra gear, and was so surprised; he was amazing; I'd never seen such a big horse move so lightly. It was like a gliding trot with a little bit of knee action but with masses of power behind it; he really covered the ground. It was far more workmanlike than a purpose bred dressage horse's trot and wouldn't have shown up so well in a still photo. I videoed him but missed the best bit. (Unfortunately the video is still in trapped in yesterday's technology & I can't download it yet.)

There was also a lovely horse called The Do-Ron by Seacrest who was doing well in Dressage & jumping who died only recently, & much too young. Anyone got anything by him?

Edited to say, has anyone scrolled down & seen the half-bred progeny on Tarr-Steps' link? There's a really striking youngster on there...
 
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Going to stick my neck out too- I actually like the first horse best of all; think it has very nice limbs- I LIKE the long loin relative to the cannon and was told (& indeed have found) that it suggests a horse that can jump. Is there a downside to it? I think its a young horse and will make up. (Now you'll tell me it 20...) Alright- the neck & shoulder are a bit plain, but still I like it. Shame this isn't video & we could see them move. (Sorry JG- don't want much, do I).

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She's a 2 year old - and I like her - although she's the more modern 'type' of ID not favoured by all. But she graded well for a 2 year old and she CAN move. And yes, I like a long loin (and fore arm) in relation to length of cannon too. She is a half-sister to mare number 4 (who is also the more modern 'type' - more sport horse type.)

They are both daughters of mare number 3 who was a 'Quality Premium' broomare in Ireland and has won two Hornby Premiums here (although Monday's Inspectors didn't like her as well.
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There was also a lovely horse called The Do-Ron by Seacrest who was doing well in Dressage & jumping who died only recently, & much too young. Anyone got anything by him?


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No - but my Northwood Rose (a Hornby Select mare) is his half sister. She's not pictured here - but number 2 is her daughter! Rosie is VERY traditional (a mere 15.2 and a little block on legs!)
 
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I like No. 2 best, how did she do in the grading.

What is a loaded wither?

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You have FANTASTIC taste in Irish Draughts IMHO - would you like to join the Inspection panel!
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No. 2 is my darling Maggie - the first pure-bred filly I bred (other than a mare bought in foal which isn't the same!) She's 4 - has a lovely filly at foot by Kenson's Aragorn. She's out of my Hornby Select mare Northwood Rose (the half sister to The Do Ron)

She graded as a 2 year old on 122 points - which is a VERY high mark for a 2 year old - Number 1 graded on 114 and I've seen 2 yo's grade on as little as 99 (out of 145) I was SURE she'd walk the Hornby - she looked FAR better even than as a 2 year old. But the Inspectors thought differently and marked her 119, which was VERY disappointing indeed - especially as if she'd got just 1 or 2 more points more they could have taken her foal into account for up to 5 marks (125 needed for a Hornby.)

And she's a little cracker!
Maggies-foal2.jpg


I think Shils meant a loaded shoulder - which is one with excessive muscle development over the shoulder - it can restrict movement.

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No. 4 .... It has a nice enough head and neck, but the shoulder looks too straight, and the wither maybe a bit loaded. Strange things going on in this back too - slightly roached back. Looks very similar to Number 2 but I don't think this will be likely to churn out Shils assassins either. 2/5

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This is Cleo - and her shoulder might be a little straight - although she moves well. She is a bit lean along her top-line as she has a HUGE filly at foot which is growing like a weed - and being the more 'sporty' type of ID, she's not as easy to keep condition on as your more traditional ID (she's 17 hh at 6 and could easily grow another inch!) She won't be fully mature until she's 7 - or even 8! They can change a LOT between 2 and 7 - this is Cleo as a 2 year old when she was 2nd in a VERY strong class at the Irish National Breed Show.

Cleo.jpg


One of the funny things about breeding, though - Cleo throws foals more like you'd expect her mother to throw - and her mother throws foals like Cleo (and Number 1 - Trio.) Cleo got her first Hornby as a 4 year old, scored badly as a 5 year old, and improved this year as a 6 year old - although again 1 point short of her foal being able to be 'counted'. Hopefully next year she'll have let down a bit more and I'll be able to keep the condition on her a bit better - this year has been cr*p for that and I won't stuff mares with concentrates in late lactation, it's far too risky for the foal.

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Number 5 - Looks much more like the type of horse Shils would avoid...says ID to me. Bit massive in the front end, not so much behind. Looks as though it has quite a lot of bone.

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She's a very nice mare - not mine - she came here to foal, be AI'd and be prepared for grading. She got her 3rd Hornby (128) and is now Hornby Select. She actually has a good back-end, but could have been carrying at least another 50 pounds of condition to look her best. I had to restrict her a bit as foalie's tendons contracted badly and I HAD to slow her growth.
 
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Ok, I know nothing about IDs or their breed standard, so I am going to have a go, based on which horses look most likely to kill me with a fear factor correlating with how ID I think they are
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I don't understand the kill me mark, so I'll just assess them conformationally as I would if I was mare grading / evaluating / judging for any studbook/event that takes mares of a variety of breeds and types and assesses them for their potential usefulness in modern sports Elite horse breeding programmes. I have been doing this for about 15 years and across 3 continents so I hope I can provide an independent but informed view on this and I base my classification on the usual breakdown of:

Head studbook. Top 10% of mares (the usual resource from which the most successful graded stallions and top performance horses come)

Main studbook Next 60/705 of mares Top MSB mares are usually as good as HSB mares except that they may not move as straight, be quite as athletic all round or have a conformation fault that stops them from scoring the equivalent of 8/10 (good) in all points. Lower end studbook mares are usually sound but rather more old fashioned, but promising sorts to upgrade from or to produce nice riding club horses when carefully bred from

Prelim Stud Book Mares with either missing pedigrees or too far off the type scale for a modern sports horse to be considered for main. These mares have to be very carefully bred from to ensure that they do not pass on their unimproved type to the next generation. However they will generally be correct in limbs as otherwise they will fail grading completely.

Placed in that international context and with the proviso that photos do not show how straight they move (I presume they do) and that only a personal viewing can show how athletic they are (even videos can't really do that) and bearing in mind that I have deliberately not read any of the follow up posts yet, here are my comments.

General comments
This assessment has nothing to do with the Futurity and is my own personal opinion. Also as the Elite bit might cause howls etc I will cover myself by saying that any final decsion on such mares would also have to be based on their own competition record and that of their progeny (mares in practically all WBFSH studbooks can be upgraded if this is outstanding) and of course bearing in mind that photos are (i) often misleading and (ii) cannot show the mare in movement in a truly correct way. I am therefore assuming that they do all move straight but obviously I have no way of assessing their natural athleticism and as I have said several times, good tempered mares (which these are) that remain sound but lack natural top class perfomance qualities / athleticism may well be the sort that provide the type of mounts that your average / not very talented/novice rider needs. It is just that upgrading them to 'world beaters' is impossible in less than about three generations and to quote an old saying about trying to do that with such mares 'if I wanted to get there I wouldn't start from here'.

So here goes, and apologies to anyone's dearest product who feels they have been slighted but the photos were put up, comments were asked for and I can only do it from the experience base I have, helping to develop / continuously improve the standard of horses for the studbooks I know. I have also placed them in class order (1/5 being top and 5/5 bottom) with the proviso that if any of them have a proven competition record over a notable amount of time at a notable level (or have produced progeny that have performed in this way) then that could certainly improve their ranking;

Critiques
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Number 1 - head seems a little coarse, neck short, shoulder upright, long in loins, short in croup, forearm, and gaskin.

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Neck rather low set in front and could be freer in throat (to allow for flexion in poll). However, this type of neck set can allow a horse to raise its head when assessing the size of a fence so they are often quite clean jumpers. Slightly steep croup (also jumper point) but needs more quality overall for modern sports horse breeding (not SHBGB, I'm talking true WBFSH here :-)) points. Bottom end of main studbook. 2/5

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Number 2 - nicer head, and neck, with more sloping shoulder. Bit long in the back, and seems slightly light of bone from what I would expect. The feet are quite small, too, and the gaskin short.

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Head too large, strangely lacking in depth in front of girth compared to further back. Short steep croup. Camped out behind and second thighs much too short, cannons too long and hind pasterns upright. Lacking muscle but probably rather immature anyway and more muscle may improve 2nd thigh and overline. Would appear not able to come through enough from behind at present so Prelim Stud Book 4/5

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Number 3 - Nice head, neck and generally good front end. Some trouble in the loin/croup area, and quite hollow in the back so I'm guessing an established broodmare. Comparatively long in all four pasterns, and the hind cannons.

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Better type of broodmare. Modern strong, harmonious sports horse type of mare but camped out behind and back at the knee plus large and flat feet so lower type of main studbook mark (1/5)

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Number 4 - I don't like this one very much, sorry. It has a nice enough head and neck, but the shoulder looks too straight, and the wither maybe a bit loaded. Strange things going on in this back too - slightly roached back.

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Best head of the lot but again camped out behind and back at the knee. Very short second thigh and upright pasterns all road. Looks like could have had sacariliac problem at some time so she may have had a jumping career in the past (if so and her competition record was good this might be taken into account in her assessment but would be unlikely to entirely balance her limb conformational problems) Lower main studbool level 3/5

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Number 5 Bit massive in the front end, not so much behind. Looks as though it has quite a lot of bone.

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Two different horses. Strong well-muscled front and middle peice but weak behind and actually rtaher straight hind leg compared to others but still sloghtly camped out behind. Flat, large feet. Prelim stud book 5/5

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See, I told you I knew nothing, despite being forced to view IDs in Ireland years ago...Kildalton Gold, could it have been?S
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I think this poster knows quite a bit :-) and any difference of opinion we may have is probably due to the fact that she tends to look at riding horses rather than broodmares and broodmares tend to have either lost (or never did have) the supporting musculature that ridden horse do. OTOH like me she tends to view horses as how fit they are for purpose -- or to be bred from to produce animals that are fitter for purpose -- rather than encouraging people to wait three or four equien generations to get a the result that we are looking for (but I will probably be dead by then anyway:-)).

Apologies again if I have hurt anyone's feelings / punctured their world view happy bubble, but opinions were asked for and I do think that at least a couple of forum members do think that my input -- and the context in which I am able to provide it -- might be of some use here.

Fireproof jacket on now, but do remember that shooting the messenger is not really the solution. OTOH, thinking about why the assessment is the way it is -- and what the mechanism is that fires it (actually the constantly upgrading of FEI requirements for international competitions to be a test of rider ability rather than physical strength/power of horse) could be.
 
At what level was the chestnut horse in the photo Irish champion? I am assuming something like Elementary as:

1 I have seen very few horses working at top level whose head is the same length at his neck (not even Rusty <ROFL>)
2 He is obviously working under considerable tension as the angle of the front cannon in extension is much flatter than that of the one in the lateral one behind. In a truely established tension free horse they should be the same (Yes I know they are often not, especially in auction photo trot, but we are talking long-term potential here as those auction trots sell well to the easily impressed but sadly often don't make it/stay sound to the top levels)

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Nope, definitely not dressage horses.
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Sorry, not yet. Flashy mover in front ATM is all that I would say.
 
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laraghhamilton_2006_2.jpg

Irish National Dressage Champion 2006 "Claggan Roxy Music" - by Rakish Paddy RID

Nope, definitely not dressage horses.
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At what level was the chestnut horse in the photo Irish champion? I am assuming something like Elementary as:

1 I have seen very few horses working at top level whose head is the same length at his neck (not even Rusty <ROFL>)
2 He is obviously working under considerable tension as the angle of the front cannon in extension is much flatter than that of the one in the lateral one behind. In a truely established tension free horse they should be the same (Yes I know they are often not, especially in auction photo trot, but we are talking long-term potential here as those auction trots sell well to the easily impressed but sadly often don't make it/stay sound to the top levels)

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Nope, definitely not dressage horses.



Sorry, not yet. Flashy mover in front ATM is all that I would say.


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As the rider is wearing top hat and tails, this picture must have been taken when the horse was competing at Advanced or above, in fact, I think I am right in saying this horse competes at GP level.

She is indeed very nice, a lovely type, I wouldn't mind having her in my string.

As for the front leg, hind leg angles, Ciss, you obviously didn't watch much of the Olympics this year, as most of the horses demonstrated a similar trend, but when it is at the `Olympics' it is called expression!!!!!!
 
Dressage Ireland National Winter Finals
Wednesday, April 19, 2006

Northern riders Laragh Hamilton and Jennifer Somerville won the main classes at the Dressage Ireland National Winter Finals Monday 17th April 2006 at Broadmeadows Equestrian Centre, Ashbourne, County Meath.

Laragh Hamilton from County Antrim won both the Grand Prix and Intermediaire II classes with her thirteen year old chestnut mare Claggan Roxy Music by the Irish Draught stallion Rakish Paddy.

School Principal Jennifer Somerville from Crossgar, County Down took top honours in the Intermediaire I final with her Supreme Edge gelding Mr Bingley.

GRAND PRIX FINAL

1.CLAGGAN ROXY MUSIC;Laragh HAMILTON 65.31%
2.HERITAGE EGANO S; Anne Marie DUNPHY 59.27%

INTERMEDIAIRE II FINAL

1.CLAGGAN ROXY MUSIC;Laragh HAMILTON 62.68%
2.HERITAGE EGANO S; Anne Marie DUNPHY 60.12%
3.OAKENGROVE IDEAL;Sue SMALLMAN 56.59%
 
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