Talking about stallion grading

JanetGeorge

JanetGeorge

Well-Known Member
Joined
25 June 2001
Messages
7,006
Location
Shropshire/Worcs. borders
www.horseandhound.co.uk
This is one of my candidates for Irish Draught stallion grading next February - doing a bit of loose schooling!

Prince-trot.jpg


Prince-2.jpg




Prince-3.jpg


Prince-4.jpg


Prince-5.jpg


Prince-6.jpg


Prince-7.jpg


Two questions:

1. Who said Irish Draughts can't MOVE??

2. Will the indoor at Moreton Morrell hold him?
grin.gif


For those who like statistics: he's 2 years old, about 15.3 now - will mature around 16.2. He's by Lady's Tralee Raj ex Little Macha (aka Portia) who is by Grey Macha and is a full sister to the famous Irish stallion Agherlow.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Woah he's a big beastie
grin.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

Nope - he's the tiddler!
grin.gif


THIS is the big beastie!

Indigo Rambo - also aimed at stallion grading. He's called Rambo because he was a HUGE foal, with legs like tree-trunks and he came out fighting!
grin.gif


Rambo-1.jpg


Rambo-2.jpg


Rambo-3.jpg


Rambo-4.jpg


Rambo-5.jpg


He's 16.3 already - at 3! He measured at 10" of bone as a 2 year old - and is by Raj out of Northwood Rose (who is only 15.2!) She is by Gort Boy.

I don't think he has quite as good movement as Prince - but there is more of him to shift!
 
[ QUOTE ]

Rambo is lovely, but the bay is GORGEOUS!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

He always was - and a real poser too. EVERY time I went into the field with a camera, he was the only foal I managed to photograph! He just LOVED the camera!

prince-1.jpg


prince-2.jpg


And this is Rambo at 2 days old - he was never going to be small!

Rosie-Rambo.jpg
 
Wow, they are lovely but huge!!!!

Isn't this forum brilliant for showing such different types of horses? I'm sure theres everything from Natives thru Sports Ponies thru WB's to TB's bred by SOMEONE on here!
 
[ QUOTE ]
Rambo is ridicuosly huge now. God job ID's have good temperaments. I'd hate to get on the wrong side of somehting that size. Both look pretty good to me, fingers crossed for the gradings!

[/ QUOTE ]

He IS a bit silly, isn't he!
grin.gif
Fortunately he DOES have a very good temperament although he's tested the boundaries a few times - it's been quite difficult preventing him from realising his own strength! We haven't led him in a headcollar for about a year now. And he HAS to have a grill over his door or he'll walk through it - the bolts just snap!

Prince, though, is a total gent - he'll walk past mares in season in a headcollar with just a friendly 'hello' and a bit of piaffe!
grin.gif


Once I get mare gradings out of the way (they're on Monday) then I'll have to start work on them in earnest! But with 9 mares and fillies to prepare - for grading or Hornbys - and 8 of them being grey,
shocked.gif
they are taking priority at the moment! :
 
Phew! I thought for a ghastly moment that the "movement" was being compared to a competition horse (no offense intended, as I'm sure that's good movement for a Draft horse). Horses for courses and all that!
 
Thats a bit harsh, bb.
blush.gif


I love the grey, but I love greys! I bet his mum's eyes watered when he was hatched!!
blush.gif


Good luck with the gradings.
laugh.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
Phew! I thought for a ghastly moment that the "movement" was being compared to a competition horse (no offense intended, as I'm sure that's good movement for a Draft horse). Horses for courses and all that!

[/ QUOTE ]

No offence taken - just as I'm sure YOU won't take offence when I say you're talking bo**ocks!
grin.gif
You can only get a hint of movement in a still picture - but I can assure you that the bay is right up there with any competition-bred 2 year old you could find. I already have a successful TOP dressage rider BEGGING me to allow her to compete him in a few years' time!! His piaffe (while led in a headcollar) is stunning! And his temperament is also far superior to any competition youngster you could find! (And you can be damn sure that WHEN he gets to top level in dressage he won't screw up his chances by exploding in the arena at a critical moment!!)

You obviously haven't seen a GOOD ID moving!
wink.gif
 
He is correct, doesn't use extra energy, light on his feet, therefore to me, he moves well weather that is despite his size or not!!! Although not my type at all, I can totally see that Janet breeds very good horses and is very experianced with it.

I'm afraid being blinkered to the 'sport horse' or 'competition horse' doesn't take into account the other blood added over time to get there - ID's have been crossed with TB's time and time again to create your competition horses.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Phew! I thought for a ghastly moment that the "movement" was being compared to a competition horse (no offense intended, as I'm sure that's good movement for a Draft horse). Horses for courses and all that!

[/ QUOTE ]

Other people far better than I (especially Janet) have explained better but I must say that's incredibly harsh and arrogant to suggest they're not good enough to be sport stallions in the future. Just because they might not be your cup of tea does not make them wrong to be included in sport breeding. The IDs are far more likely to have the temperament needed for the big occasion let alone their movement being great enough to improve many mares, plus their usual strong constitution makes anyone who disregards them without checking all their attributes rather short sighted to me..
 
Oh my god, is this what happens here? Someone has an opinion different from yours and gets sworn at and bullied? Swearing at someone in such an unpleasant way and putting a smile after doesn't justify that behaviour, how dare you use such foul language on a public forum, how unprofessional.

What incredible arrogance to look down your nose at someone, and assume they don't know what they're talking about. Just because I chose to breed and enjoy another type of horse does not make me inferior or my opinions invalid.

I'm sure you're very proud of your horses Janet George, but be careful of barn blindness and how you attack people, it's very unprofessional.

I can see why so many people are scared of posting on this forum now.

 
[ QUOTE ]
Phew! I thought for a ghastly moment that the "movement" was being compared to a competition horse (no offense intended, as I'm sure that's good movement for a Draft horse). Horses for courses and all that!

[/ QUOTE ]

When you use phrases such as "For a ghastly moment I thought that the 'movement' was being compared to a competition horse" & " I'm sure thats good movement for a draft horse" you must expect people to react to what appeared to be two very disparaging comments. In stating that your preference is for a 'competition type' you appear to be showing a total ignorance of the origins of todays modern competition types where in fact IDs have had a huge influence.

Whilst I'm sure we all extend a very warm welcome to you a a new member of the forum you have a very confident posting manner for a 'newbie'.....I wonder if we've seen you before in another guise?

(Now if you chose to interpret any of my post as bullying I would have to say that you must be a very sensitive soul indeed)
 
I must admit that I thought I recognised style of writing and use of words in the first posting. The clue couldn't be in the name BRITbreeder could it?
Ps Yes, we are soooooooooooooooo scary!!!
 
[ QUOTE ]
Phew! I thought for a ghastly moment that the "movement" was being compared to a competition horse (no offense intended, as I'm sure that's good movement for a Draft horse). Horses for courses and all that!

[/ QUOTE ]

How to offend people in one foul swoop. Numpty.
 
[ QUOTE ]
How to offend people in one foul swoop. Numpty.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry Beany, but I'm envisaging an awful lot of chickens swooping down on us.......
tongue.gif
grin.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]


What incredible arrogance to look down your nose at someone, and assume they don't know what they're talking about. Just because I chose to breed and enjoy another type of horse does not make me inferior or my opinions invalid.



[/ QUOTE ]

You're the one who looked down your nose at my horses because they weren't the type YOU favour. And revealed your ignorance of a breed that is found in the pedigree of EVERY decent sport horse that ever came out of Ireland!

When you attack my horses - AND you did! - then expect to be told! If you don't like it, perhaps you should think before you offer your opinions in such a condescending manner!
 
I'm not sure I've seen many ID stallions or mares in the breeding of the KWPN or Hannover breeds, as I'm so ignorant, perhaps you could educate me? I hear that the Belgians bought up all the Irish mares, but then ate them.

On the subject of movement, JanetGeorge said herself that you could only catch a glimpse of any movement in a photo, but I also have a copy of the Oldenburg catalogue being spoken about, and the glimpses of movement I see in those photos are not really the same. As far as JanetGeorge's view on movement, what I'm seeing in those photos is not good movement which will cut the mustard in sport. That is not "looking down my nose" just the standard "disallowed" point of view. It's not an attack, and it's a shame that it's taken that way. If what you say is true about the movement, why don't you submit your stallions for grading in a sport horse registry next year? Then you can get a "non-ignorant" view on your stallions, although perhaps the "non-ignorant" view is based on the results.

The ID had an influence in jumper breeding, but that was at least three decades ago and only due to the TB outcross (the same as the Holsteiners), is the cross back a step forward in jumper breeding? (that's a question not a statement). Perhaps so if it's felt that horses are getting too light, but I have a feeling that it's the other way round.

The ID's I've met have always been very sweet natured and docile, the crosses TB x ID I've ridden have always been super hunterhack/family horse types. If I wanted a hunter type I'd go for tb x ID, because I'd want a horse to hack for a couple of hours in the forest (or longer) and be very good at it's job, a great horse and every type of horse has it's place.

So now that I've been sworn at, called names, and told I'm ignorant (all of which seem perfectly acceptable) is there any chance this could continue without the personal attacks please?

JanetGeorge, the day that using such foul language is acceptable is a very poor day, please take your potty mouth and bullying elsewhere. You intimidate people here and don't allow anyone else to have a point of view.
 
BB I agree everyone is entitled to their opinion on here but I must say your first reply was VERY nasty and un-called for.
Also, if the foreign folk want to 'eat' my irish mare they can 'kiss my arse first' (and yes that's swearing too !!
mad.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]

The ID had an influence in jumper breeding, but that was at leastthree decades ago and only due to the TB outcross


[/ QUOTE ]

Now let me think: let's look at Headley Britannia. Are you suggesting that her sire, Jumbo, got his jumping ability from his TB mum?? Or from Skippy - his RID sire - who - whoops - DID have a TB grand-dam - maybe the jumping ability came from her! And I wonder where Jumbo got the movement that enabled him to win the Spillers Dressage and Showjumping Championship at Blenheim in 1997, and produce winning Prix St. George dressage horses, Grade A showjumpers and twenty two advanced eventers in the UK alone! I really DON'T think it was from the TB - although that would certainly have added the speed necessary for the old format eventing.

And let's look at just one 'modern' Irish Draught - Roma Diamond Skip - who is a Sport Horse Breeders (GB) Lifetime Approved Grade 1 stallion, whose dam was a Skippy mare. His sire was Shauna's Diamond - NASTA Grade 1. Funnily enough, his dam - an RID mare called Shauna - produced 3 graded stallions and had NO TB blood in five generations.

And Shauna's Diamond was by Diamonds are Trumps (by King of Diamonds).

Diamond's are Trumps turns up in all sorts of odd places - Rodrigo Pessoa's Richmont Park, Markus Fuchs's Royal Charmer to name just two.

And yes, gee, King of Diamonds was not PURE Irish Draught - but do we REALLY think his jumping ability - passed on to HUNDREDS of sons/daughters/grandsons/grand-daughters etc. etc. REALLY came from a long forgotten TB mare called Biddens (his maternal grand-dam) and NOT from the great RID stallion Errigal (who three of KoD's best stallion sons, Flagmount King, Flagmount Diamond and Flagmount Boy are all line-bred to?? )

And yes - two of those stallions are now dead (quite recently) but there are still young, talented jumpers by them doing well - and stallion sons of theirs still producing the goods! So their influence lives on. Flagmount Diamond is the sire of Nick Skelton's Virtual Village Hopes are High (now where COULD he have got that jumping ability??) And the stallions Diamond Chin and Crosstown Dancer, both successful jumpers in Ireland. Diamond Chin as a, sire, has achieved 3rd place in the Genetic Index rating in Ireland.

No - you're right of course - the ID no longer has ANY influence on the production of jumpers!
grin.gif
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top