tantrum or problem?

[noodle_]

hi,

i have a 4 year old who has been backed this year (with previous owner), shes a lovely girl, very quiet and you would think she was a lot older shes that sensible.

Problem we have had the last 2 times her being ridden is when asking to move on into trot.. or just push on a little more is shes chucking her head up in the air.... not nasty doing anything else... but is this normally a 4 year old protest or something wrong with her?

I didnt have a crop on me sadly else i would have pushed her on to see if it was her being a muppet.

Her tack has been checked, the vet checked her teeth 3 weeks ago and the vet gave her a once over too.

If she needs a physio etc i will get one out asap and not ride until i know shes ok...(the dentist is out in december too..)
thanks

 

[Allover]

If she were mine i would get a physio\accupuncture person out to have a look, just because she has been backed this year and has had to use muscles she has not used before and had to get used to the weight of the rider.

Have fun with her

 

[Aces_High]

I would say on the back of your post that she's trying things on! It's hard to give a fair comment without seeing her but with her tack etc being fine - it sounds like she's having a teenage strop! Have you ridden her since her two strops?

 

[noodle_]

her last strop was this morning. she point blank refused to trot, which annoyed me - she is lazy anyhow but she was like a donkey this morning....

so when i got off i did some in-hand work with her and showed her what a crop was on her bum (just tapped)... funnily enough she shifted after that lol.

i will carry a crop tomorow and use it on her shoulder to back up my legs... and if shes the same again i will get the physio out asap....

(physio is coming out before year end anyhow... but sooner if needed )

thanks for the replies

 

[Aces_High]

It will be interesting to see how you get on tomorrow but I do think a smack and she'll probably be prepared to get on with her work and not cause you anymore hassle. That's the plan anyway! Make sure you back the smack up with lots of leg. I've spent the last 15 odd years breaking horses in and generally you just need to make their mind up for them and then they'll be fine. No different to any animal with testing the boundaries! Please post tomorrow and let us know how you get on.

 

[Balibee]

It will be interesting to see how you get on tomorrow but I do think a smack and she'll probably be prepared to get on with her work and not cause you anymore hassle. That's the plan anyway! Make sure you back the smack up with lots of leg. I've spent the last 15 odd years breaking horses in and generally you just need to make their mind up for them and then they'll be fine. No different to any animal with testing the boundaries! Please post tomorrow and let us know how you get on.

Agree with this. Horses IMO throw their heads up to either get out of working or to escape pain from the bit etc.

As Aces high says, it does sound like she is just avoiding work. What kind of bit are you riding her in?

Also I personally think smacking a horse on its shoulder does not encourage forward movement. A tap behind your leg is a much more positive aid in my opinion. I would only use a stick ont he shoulder to stop the horse from running out of a fence etc when you know they run out on a particular side.

Good luck with her

 

[noodle_]

thanks both

i will see how we get on tomorow as shes only done the head tossing thing twice now and if she was in pain i think it would be worse behaviour?


either way i will get the physio out as i dont think it will be abad thing!... but push her tomorow.... shes 4 and ive not had her that long so i know she will be trying it on...!.



balibee - shes in a full cheek snaffle - she was in one before i bought her/when i tried her so kept things familiar for her... when shes listening to me she stops/turns fab but just these past two times.

i will try the stick on her bum if she continues to be a plank -

will let you know how we get on

 

[sydneysmum]

Hi noodle. Syd was backed this year and he too does what you are describing. As I am watching from the ground whilst my friend is riding him I have noticed that it happens mainly when he is asked to go forward but theres not enough impulsion. When she rides him forward without asking for too much contact and he is going at a regular pace it doesnt seem to happen. Hope this helps.

 

[noodle_]

Hi noodle. Syd was backed this year and he too does what you are describing. As I am watching from the ground whilst my friend is riding him I have noticed that it happens mainly when he is asked to go forward but theres not enough impulsion. When she rides him forward without asking for too much contact and he is going at a regular pace it doesnt seem to happen. Hope this helps.

thanks that does help

i do try and limit her schooling to 4 (max)! times a week for around 20 mins each time and atm were only walking and trotting but im desparate to canter her...lol!
just need to get walk and trot establised again as she was going lovely last week.... mabey an off couple of days for her!...

going to use a schooling whip tomorow and just learn to sit up and hold on when using it

 

[sydneysmum]

Im sure you know this already but its worth sitting ever so slightly forward when you use your whip as she will probably jump forward and you dont want to pull her in the mouth. Im also at the point where Ive found working him say 3 times a week for 30-40 mins works him through his evasions rather than 4 or 5 times for 15-20 mins where I found that he never really settled

 

[noodle_]

updated this morning;

got on her... she was being a complete muppet with severe lack of breaks.... (walking powering on.. lol)... turns out she needed a wee.... (shes done this twice now..)


wee over. carried on.... she was fine until i asked for a bit quicker in the walk and evenually into trot... so smacked her with the crop - tiny bit more forward but stil constantly throwing the head in the air....

i got off her back.... still throwing the head up in the air

so my conclusion is i need a physio to tell me shes ok. vets out this week anyhow so im going to get him to file her teeth until we see the dentist in december (vet did say they were sharp but ok... but i need to rule this out)..

physio i guess would be a couple of weeks.... vet this week - farriers out monday anyhow.

so for now... i will give her the week off - not sure if i should lunge her or long rein? or just let her chill?? then have asit on her next weekend to see if we still have the problem??

i dont want to ride her as ussual if there is a problem..

i do have a vid uploading if anyone wants to see it and advise me? (still getting vet/physio out though!) just want to know about what to do with her from now until then

thanks

 

[Dancing Queen]

i would still lunge her, i would be very tempted to get back on and just walk, because i wouldnt want mine to associate sticking head up in air with ah mommy getting off i get to go home early no work for me! so i would keep just walking her and lunge her. I would get the dentist and physio out sooner rather than later (but thats because im impatient!)

 

[soulfull]

I would also hack her more. I would only school a 4 yr old once or twice a week,

She is probably bored and throwing a tantrum. It would be wise to get physio out soon as at least then you can confidently get after her knowing nothing is wrong.
Also put poles on the ground to give her something else to think about and look at (keeping her head down)
lots of praise when she does do it nicely!!! I am the worlds worst for forgetting the praise, then I will remember and the difference it makes is amazing!!

 

[noodle_]

ok thanks both.

cant hack out as we have main roads here and the only hacking is a huge field.... i can go school in a field? but its just so slippy and muddy....

I will give it another go tomorow but stick some poles out - she can jump and loves it - so mabey i should just do that? or raised poles?

i will start riding her 3 days a week for longer and let her be lunged or long reined on the other day.

 

[soulfull]

ok thanks both.

cant hack out as we have main roads here and the only hacking is a huge field.... i can go school in a field? but its just so slippy and muddy....

I will give it another go tomorow but stick some poles out - she can jump and loves it - so mabey i should just do that? or raised poles?

i will start riding her 3 days a week for longer and let her be lunged or long reined on the other day.

yeah that's ok something different for her start with poles on the ground randomly placed around the school in walk and then trot. Then start and set them up in a row 3 or more as 2 she may try to leap over them together. You will need to check on distances between them as you don't want to scare her.

the most important thing is for her to go over them confidently and keeping her rhythm the same. Once she can do this then you can put the last one up as a little x pole or raise them slightly to get her to lift legs nicely.

Alternating with lunging on another day or long reining is a great idea. you can also lunge over poles, again make sure you know where to place them to keep her confidence

 

[noodle_]

ok thanks

she will lunge over poles and also lunge over jumps. been a while so mabey i will do that tomorow to get her excited about being ridden (if thats her problem,,,)

If she needs it i will happily give her time off but we were makign good progress!!... but what the horse needs... she gets.

 

[sydneysmum]

Hi noodle Ye you probably need to get her checked out but have you thought about trying her with a martingale for a short while. Once she realises she cant get her head up high she might just stop messing

 

[noodle_]

she has a martingale on already!!

shes just a definant little madam if theres nothing wrong with her she has character - she bit me this morning too (doing up her girth) right on my elbow and now i have a huge bruise... normally she just threatens but ouchies!!!

I am planning to have lessons but until christmas im just playing about getting to know her more....(and get her sorted)... shes my 3rd horse but 1st 4year old.



i will doa thread asking about physios as im not sure of many more other than 1 and would like reccomendations.

thanks

 

[siennamum]

she has a martingale on already!!

shes just a definant little madam if theres nothing wrong with her she has character - she bit me this morning too (doing up her girth) right on my elbow and now i have a huge bruise... normally she just threatens but ouchies!!!

I am planning to have lessons but until christmas im just playing about getting to know her more....(and get her sorted)... shes my 3rd horse but 1st 4year old.



i will doa thread asking about physios as im not sure of many more other than 1 and would like reccomendations.

thanks

Even if you have had her saddle checked - I would be greatly alarmed at her biting you when doing up the girth. It is usually a horse screaming that the saddle hurts.

 

[noodle_]

Even if you have had her saddle checked - I would be greatly alarmed at her biting you when doing up the girth. It is usually a horse screaming that the saddle hurts.

shes been fine up until now though..?

we have a saddle fitter on the yard i could ask her to have a look...

will still get the physio out though too.

 

[soulfull]

you just mentioned she was biting when doing up the girth. In which case I would get saddle and back check asap. Then you can concentrate on having fun with her

 

[Dancing Queen]

it could be that she resents the level of work she is doing? my mare was a bit grumpy and needed special treats before i started working her to get anything out of her. i would get her checked asap - have you looked at her girth? is it causing any rubbing etc?

im sure you will get it sorted in no time at all xx

 

[Pearlsasinger]

so im going to get him to file her teeth until we see the dentist in december (vet did say they were sharp but ok... but i need to rule this out)..



[/QUOTE]

If her teeth are sharp, they're NOT ok. I'd not put a bit in until the EDT had seen her but I'd make an early appointment, rather than waiting 'til December. It really does sound as though she could be at least uncomfortable, if not actually in pain and you could be setting up bad habits. Are there any teeth marks on the bit?

 

[soulfull]

you probably do need to get the dentist too. sorry it is not what anyone wants all at once. However it is also something i do with all new horses.

She sounds like a lovely young horse and the last thing you want is for her to associate being ridden with any type of pain at all. Best to get the whole lot checked
Back
saddle
teeth

then you can start with a clean slate

 

[noodle_]

thanks for the replies....

i have spoken to those at the yard who know her and most have said its babish... i agree..to a point!!!

but!... i honestly think theres something wrong there.....

im ringing the physio tomorow (hence other thread)!....
vet is out wednesday......to do other vaccs and teeth
saddle fitter is out on the 15thish of november so i will see if they can come out earlier - if not - pony has holiday!

dentist is in dec but i will get vet to do her teeth wed if i cant get the dentist out sooner (i will try my best) if not vet will rasp them and then get her done again in dec.


im not getting back on her until the physio/saddle fitter/vet or dentist has been out...

but until then i dont want to hurt her more - do i do anything with her - long rein or lunge?? can long rein her round the paddock and ahuge field (no circles if needed)

shes 4 and just being schooled, but no issues if she needs complete time off

thoughts?..

 

[catkin]

At 4 she won't yet have all her adult teeth, so she could be teething especially if it is something she has just started doing. I had this with my youngster at the same age - I rode her and longreined her from a Dually headcollar for a couple of weeks until her mouth had settled (she was used to the action already). She was then happy in her bit again.

They are also growing - and their backs change shape at an alarming rate, growth spurts combined with muscling up. Check the girth too - is it going tighter at the front or back edge - especially if the saddle is sitting a bit differently. I'm afraid with young horses you are likely to be forever re-fitting saddles until they are fully mature.

You are wise to have things all checked over - best a bit of a rest now than to have her worried about being riddden for the rest of her life. Mine had an enforced rest as a 5 year old (a broken ankle for me) - she didn't forget her lessons and if anything came back refreshed with a more mature attitude.

 

[noodle_]

thanks catkin im giving her a month off until i get the dentist out. will be a nice break for her anyhow


booked the saddle fitter. - 17th
physio im still trying to get through - that will be asap
dentist - dec 6th i think.
vet - this week

vets doing her vaccs and im going to get him to file her teeth until the dentist comes out in dec.


i officially hate november. im skint.

but id rather be skint with a happy horse than better off money wise but with a hurt horse

 

[Marciamac]

I agree if her teeth are sharp they need rasping - and a good vet can do it, without waiting for a dentist (I had a horse for 20 years and never used a dentist!). And if it makes you feel better to have her checked out, then do it. But I tend to think she's just a baby, hasn't learne to balance properly yet, and is throwing her head around to help. You need a lesson with a good instructor NOW. Check that you are sitting properly, not getting her in the mouth, etc, as the way you sit and use your aids greatly affect the horse's reactions. Also, if you use a stick, try a schooling whip so you don't have to take your hands off the reins, which will unbalance her, and always use any stick just behind the leg: they are meant to reinforce the leg aid. Using it on her bum or shoulder won't do anything at all.

 

[noodle_]

^^ thanks

i do have good advice off the yard but lessons are now going to be after xmas as shes having a month off then bringing her back into work.... so jan i will book in with a good dressage instructor (As thats what i want to do..)