Tatts - rider rep meeting mid event

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machannah

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Tatts 3*** world cup qualifier was in full flow when a horse fell in the water and broke its leg, it was the 3rd horse fall at that fence, and somehow a rider rep meeting was called mid XC, all action on the course stopped and we managed to wander over and catch the end of the discussion inclduing the TD and most of the riders who were warming up at the time

The TD was discussing peoples approach to the fence, those that were too quick were not having a nice ride, and those who jumped in "neatly" didnt experience many issues. However with 3 horse falls already having taken place, and the third being fatal it quickly moved in to dialogue about the fence and whether it was "safe" or not. Belton got mentioned and people then started to discuss their earlier rides and experience of jumping the fence. Some had had a good ride and had no issues, other people who thought that had jumped in well, felt they were punished for this somehow, talks of a hole in the bottom were mentioned, but quickly put to one side. In the end, a vote took place with those opting to either have the fence removed or left in. I didnt see the exact results but it went in favour of the removal, Toddy basically said that if people have negative feelings about the fence, they will ride it badly, and another rider said, having had this meeting, if something else happened then it would not look good for sport/event. So in the end the fence was removed, some were obviously not happy but I think based on the circumstances it was the right choice.

I havent seen anything like this happening before, it was quite extraordinary to have seen this going on mid event, but what I will say is that people are now wanting to do something about safety (of both horse and rider), and actively looking to make a collective decision.

There was also a meeting at the event on thurs evening about safety and changing the sport, I have to say, in line with Tina Cook's column this week, the talk is about going back to the old style fences, learn how to ride at speed, but correctly. Andrew N said whereas before he always used to try and stay on he will now get out the way and said if you cant see the horses ears infront of you get out of the way because the tail will be following it shortly.

Realise this is a bit of a rambling, but it was very interesting to see how peoples opinions and thoughts have changed, I think, that the penny may just have dropped and there will be a shake up coming. Such a shame that Burghley have knocked back the time again, the general feeling is the longer "short" format is needed
 
I think it was the second horse fall at the fence but that aside I'm sure everyone has heard many conflicting stories about what was said and by who. The TD had a very valid point but I think that Ian's accident was fresh in the minds of all and thus it was decided to err on the side of caution.
 
Thanks for that, interesting post. Agree, though, that having had the meeting and with views divided, there was only one possible course of action. Also interesting re safety discussion: I'm all for a return to old style fences, correctly ridden - although I'm anxious that officials don't get away with blaming riders for the recent fatalities: too many recent examples have been superb riders on established horses correctly ridden (Sonya Duke, Caroline Pratt, Ian Olding to name but three). I was also interested to see at Shelford last week xc poles made of a few narrower rails bundled together at several fences - this may just be a cost-saving measure, but I wondered if it is an experiment to see if they bend or break on impact causing less falls?? See some of the photos on the EWW website to see what I mean...
 
I think the discussion talked about problem of the softening of fences, such as roll tops, in the fact that even if you are on a rubbish shot, you are encouraged to get over it because its not going to cause much harm. If it was a nice set of old fashioned upright rails you would think twice!! Pippa said she is back out hunting on her horses now too to encourage forward riding, and the horse to think for itself.

I agree its not all rider error, the % ratio of fatalities of pro vs amateur is just too hard to argue with. Then it comes back to the discussions had previously about "tricking" horses, or not putting things on correct and true distances etc...

I liked Tinas slant in H&H this week, about when you rode for long format, you had to save your horse on XC day, enough petrol in the tank to get you home from 4 phases etc They had to be fit enough etc to get home safely (and that meant you the rider too and not just the horse)
 
very interesting. i have been told that the two horses that fell at that fence did approach pretty fast...
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i'm glad riders are being listened to now. awful that it took something as tragic as Belton, and last year's fatalities, to get this response, though. i hope that riders continue to have a voice and this isn't just a passing phase...
AN must have the fastest reactions in the world if he actually has time to decide whether to get out of the way or not of a falling horse... I did notice that he was riding a bit more forward in his position at Fontainebleu though, and thought i'd not seen him ride so well before, actually.
 
Thanks for that, very intresting to hear a more "actual" account of what happened rather than a "edited" version for print etc. Good that an actual conversation was held between officals and all riders (ones that had and hadn't ridden the fence).
 
Thank you for this post, I also found Tina Cooks comments in Eventing interesting.
TD was also at Shelford and was thinking along the same lines as you re the bamboo fence.
 
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very interesting. i have been told that the two horses that fell at that fence did approach pretty fast...
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I agree it could have contributed, but a very experienced 4* rider said she literally dropped in to the water, and the horse couldnt find its feet at all which prompted some of the concern. There were also rumblings about problems with the water last year (i have no idea if there were tbh) so it will be interesting to see what they do for the next events that run there

Its always going to be subjective, however some were very happy and some were not. I think/hope that this wont be the first and last time something like this happens again, i just hope its not another fatal accident which makes it happen. I just really like the fact that it did happen and I hope its not the last
 
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. I was also interested to see at Shelford last week xc poles made of a few narrower rails bundled together at several fences - this may just be a cost-saving measure, but I wondered if it is an experiment to see if they bend or break on impact causing less falls?? See some of the photos on the EWW website to see what I mean...

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Sorry TD, would love to prove you right on this one but distinctly remember those fences being there on SHelford's last running in 2006.
 
The wather did cause problems last year aswell. Apparently the base is cement with a layer of sand over it. No matter how much sand is there, there will still be movement so the cement might be exposed. They reckoned that's how the horse broke it's leg, it landed with it's whole weight on one leg and that force on a hard surface would be enough to snap it. There was no maintence done on the water base after the fall and a lot of the ** were landing awkwardly down their drop and there were a good few near misses. I think they were right to take out the water for the *** if the riders weren't happy with it.
 
I had heard that the first horse to fall in the 3* water just seemed to canter over the drop, and didn't seem to realise it was a lower level. It didn't put it's landing gear out at all!

How often is there water with a drop into water XC? Is it possible that the horses coming in a little too fast misread the size of the drop because it was water to water?

I also watched 50% of the 2* through the water. Imo those who landed badly did so because of the distance from the skinny to the drop. It rode a short 3 strides and those who fell or stumbled mainly did so because the horses back legs missed the step. (Does that make any sense... it is difficult to explain?!)
I really do not believe that the surface in the water had anything to do with the horses falling. I didn't see any of the 3* but of the 1* and 2* ones that I saw, this was certainly the case!
 
I was at tatts on Saturday and was at the water jump for the end of the 1* competition and from the beginning of the 3* until it was removed. The water had been jumping well in the 1*, they had also been dropping into the water – fair enough from a different side but no one that I watched had problems with the landing. The first rider was oli towend in the 3* and although he was coming on an onward stride, it wasn’t overly fast but he fell on land in the water and it appeared the horse just pecked on landing. I think it was a further 2 riders that fell in the water, similar situation to that of OT and think if you where being critical maybe they where slightly coming bit too forward into the drop. From sitting face on to the water – I think the problem was due to the C element (skinny) being on a curved line to the right after the drop and at times looked as if horses where starting to be turned before they landed – maybe this effected there landing – who knows. It sorta appeared that if riders where to ride straight away after the drop rather than focusing on having to turn right to C element maybe some of them would not of fallen but again who knows. I must echo the praise for the ground team that dealt with the fatal fall it was all treated very professionally especially since there was so many people watching. I felt so sorry for the rider and groom who where distraught. I have never witnessed a horse having to be pts at an event and it was truly shocking but I really think it was a tragic accident. I do think it is good that the riders spoke up with their concerns, and it was prob right that the water was removed. The ride I felt rode it the best in the 3* was Mary King and also Pippa funnel who came after the accident

I also had witnessed a previous fall at the last fence in the 1* at the last fence that the horse didn’t get up for nearly 10-15mins as it was so winded and exhausted – I honestly thought it was going to have a heart attack – thankfully after vets arrived with cold water the horse got up.

Having previously being at tatts the year there was so many falls in the water – there seemed to an obvious problem that day as all the 1* horses fell as well and the ground team where out raking the landing.

W
 
As a rider that has ridden at the Horse Trials for the last number of years i would like to say that the ground team did a great job at dealing with the situation.

There a few things in relation to the water fence i would like to say. I was one of the riders that fell into the water fence the year before last in the * class my approach was at a trot as it was a a drop i have since looked at the photos and video may times and other than the horse though it was an optical illusion jumping from water to water it is hard to understand why he fell as that was the first fault he had ever had xc. I also jumped it again last year where we had no problems but this time is was a simple and smaller drop into water.

This year i was not riding however i did watch the water for most of the day and in the ** class a large number of horse landed very heavily in the water with some of them showing clear sign of jarring as the gathered themselves for the last element of the fence. This fence has cause problems for the last number of years and the simple answer is it needs to be changed.

The reality of the sport of eventing is that accidents do happen and while we can do our best to prevent them it is impossible to prevent all accidents. I doubt we will ever know why the horse broke its leg maybe it could have done it on the gallop at home. I feel it was the right thing to remove it (Toddy basically said that if people have negative feelings about the fence, they will ride it badly,), however all riders and owners surely understand that these things happen, this is a high risk sport.

I agree that going back to the big bold gallop style fences is the way forward is that not what XC is meant to be about?
 
I was at the start of XC walking my riders horse around while the course was closed and he was at the meeting. We had been getting reports from other members of our team who were at the water by phone telling him how to ride it, and they were saying that the only people who weren't having problems were those who literally popped down into it, and gathered up straight away, keeping a contact and didn't try and see a stride and jump in and continue forwards as you might at the fence had you not known there was a problem.
I understand why the riders decided what they did, could you live with yourself as a rider (and an owner as some of them were too) if you had ignored the reports coming back from the fence and the fact that a horse had died and then you had problems with your own horse?
I think that especially in Ireland, Ian's death was on everyones minds, the safety meeting had been called the night before to encourage riders to think about safety and risk, and they just couldn't take the chance.
I think they made the right decision.
There are always falls in the water at Tatts but if you can't ride a fence how it looks like it should be ridden and have to rely on advice being relayed back by 'spotters' at the fence then I think thats the time to do what they did on Saturday.
 
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