Tax Implications When Importing Horses From Eire

[Quigleyandme]

Looking for advice please. I have been raising a horse that I bought as a foal for €1800 in 2019 here in Ireland for my son who lives in the UK. I am in the process of arranging transport of the horse to him. The horse is a present from mother to son. As neither of us are VAT registered I can’t ship the horse via Dublin or Rosslare to the UK without attracting a 20% VAT charge so he will have to travel by road from Sligo to Belfast where he will be stabled until boarding the ferry to Liverpool followed by onward road travel to the West Country. Dublin/Rosslare to Fishguard is a four hour sea crossing. Belfast to Liverpool is an eight hour sea crossing. I don’t want to subject the horse to double the sea and road travel time to avoid VAT and would happily sell the horse to my son for a nominal sum on which HMRC can levy VAT but I was advised by a reputable transport company in the UK that HMRC decides the value of the horse in these circumstances. The horse is a four year old ID gelding and I have no idea of his market value in either country but I would say it isn’t much because although he is a big, impressive looking horse he has sweet itch. Does anyone here know what the position is? I’ve searched online but the regs are complex and in many cases out of date in that they are pertinent to the period directly preceding and after Brexit. Any advice or recent experience of the process would be very welcome. I don’t want to defraud the exchequer or anything like that I just want to avoid doubling the time the horse is in transit. I imported a horse from Ireland in February 2018. He caught an URTI, came off the transport streaming pus from the nose and died some months later despite heroic efforts and many thousands spent trying to save him. That was just bad luck and nobody’s fault but it has made me much less sanguine about shipping horses and especially a horse I have raised and that I love.

 

[nagblagger]

Sorry no real facts but, why do you have to change ownership if he is staying in the family? Just a thought, 'loaning him to your son to ride'.

 

[Goldenstar]

He’s not been sold , he would only attract VAT at sale .
Hes no different to an eventer crossing for Event .

 

[Quigleyandme]

He’s not been sold , he would only attract VAT at sale .
Hes no different to an eventer crossing for Event .

Only thoroughbreds imported for breeding purposes are VAT exempt. Competition horses enter for a strictly limited period on a bond. I’ve been reliably informed that although I can evidence I purchased the horse in 2019 for €1800 and I’m willing to pay VAT on that value HMRC could and would add keep to his value.

 

[Quigleyandme]

The wonderful Mel at George Mullins has just advised they will take my horse from here to their yard in Carlow for a 24 hour plus rest before transporting him via Rosslare to Fishguard and onwards to Bridgwater Services after arranging all the documentation on my behalf, including the VAT, for a reasonable sum of money that I am more than willing to pay to halve the journey time. The other reputable transporters on my shortlist, Bramhams, Cooper, Eric Gillie, etc. all refused me but were helpful with information. The VAT thing means their client base is now in Europe not the UK. The manager of Cooper told me horses never get over the eight hour plus sea crossing from Belfast so I was willing to pay whatever VAT HMRC decided to levy but the transporters simply don’t want the hassle and refused.

 

[Annagain]

The wonderful Mel at George Mullins has just advised they will take my horse from here to their yard in Carlow for a 24 hour plus rest before transporting him via Rosslare to Fishguard and onwards to Bridgwater Services after arranging all the documentation on my behalf, including the VAT, for a reasonable sum of money that I am more than willing to pay to halve the journey time. The other reputable transporters on my shortlist, Bramhams, Cooper, Eric Gillie, etc. all refused me but were helpful with information. The VAT thing means their client base is now in Europe not the UK. The manager of Cooper told me horses never get over the eight hour plus sea crossing from Belfast so I was willing to pay whatever VAT HMRC decided to levy but the transporters simply don’t want the hassle and refused.

Can't help with the original question but I really wouldn't want to transfer a horse from one lot of transport to another at Bridgwater services. The carpark is tiny and really busy. There are lots of services on that stretch of M5 that I would pick over Bridgwater, or a couple of petrol stations with shops attached (so their carparks are a decent size and a lot quieter) very close to jct23. It shouldn't change the price to choose another location in roughly the same area.

 

[Quigleyandme]

Can't help with the original question but I really wouldn't want to transfer a horse from one lot of transport to another at Bridgwater services. The carpark is tiny and really busy. There are lots of services on that stretch of M5 that I would pick over Bridgwater, or a couple of petrol stations with shops attached (so their carparks are a decent size and a lot quieter) very close to jct23. It shouldn't change the price to choose another location in roughly the same area.

Hello. Could you please say where you would choose?

 

[Annagain]

If it has to be a services, both Sedgemoor and Taunton Deane (the services above or below Bridgwater) have much bigger carparks so it would be easier to find a quiet corner. Neither is a million miles away. I think my choice however would be the petrol station / M&S Food / Starbucks area near Jct23. It's only about 1/2 a mile from the motorway, is easily accessible (dual carriageway towards Bridgwater then last exit off the first roundabout), has a big car park and would be quieter. I'm not local to the area but have friends not far away so have driven that way quite a lot and stopped at all the services in the area. Somebody more local might have a better idea - or the horse transport company might have somewhere in mind at Bridgwater that they know about and I don't but it's probably worth having the conversation to check they haven't just assumed Bridgwater is a normal services - it's been voted the worst services in the UK for several years and the parking is a big part of that. Car parking is a multi-storey and they have space for about 10 lorries to the side which always seems to be overflowing.

 

[Quigleyandme]

Thank you Annagain. That is so helpful. I’ll defo relocate pick up to one of your recommendations. It will be at sparrow’s cough following an overnight sailing so a transfer point with 24 hour access is required but I do want him to have a couple of turns round the lorry park before his onward travel.

 

[Gamebird]

The wonderful Mel at George Mullins has just advised they will take my horse from here to their yard in Carlow for a 24 hour plus rest before transporting him via Rosslare to Fishguard and onwards to Bridgwater Services after arranging all the documentation on my behalf, including the VAT, for a reasonable sum of money that I am more than willing to pay to halve the journey time. The other reputable transporters on my shortlist, Bramhams, Cooper, Eric Gillie, etc. all refused me but were helpful with information. The VAT thing means their client base is now in Europe not the UK. The manager of Cooper told me horses never get over the eight hour plus sea crossing from Belfast

You'll be in safe hands there!

I understand your reasons for not wanting it for your horse, but the comment about horses never recovering surprises me. The Irish yards sending racehorses over to run in France now take the long ferry (ie. from Ireland straight to France) which is more than double the 8hr trip, rather than have the paperwork hassle of entering and leaving the the UK twice en route. I personally know several horses that have done this trip more than once each, and all seem to have coped fine, and run well when in France. Where possible they do open up the partitions to give each horse a small 'stable' whilst on the ferry, and obviously they are checked, fed and watered. The people travelling with them feel that hour by hour it takes less out of them being on the boat than on the road as they do not have to be constantly balancing etc.

 

[LEC]

That’s just bollocks about the journey from NI - I have 2 x 4yo who were pinging round the field in 24 hours. Came on a massive arctic lorry. I gave them 2 weeks off for quarantine reasons as easy to pick up bugs but they were fine within 2 days to do more if I had wished.

 

[spacefaer]

I've had horses come over from Belfast no problem. I suspect a disinclination to do the trip from the transporter you mention may have something to do with the comment.

 

[Quigleyandme]

The assertion about them never recovering was volunteered by one international transporter. It is just his opinion but it worried me sick. He refused to transport my horse via Dublin/Holyhead so it was a rather unkind of him to say that to me. George Mullins also contradicted much of what he said about VAT. Information gathering has been rather piecemeal. The transporters ask you to complete web forms with all the details and it has taken a few days to get their responses in. Unfortunately I got the negative responses before the positive ones and got all in a blither about it. It doesn’t help that I lost a lovely young horse to shipping fever complications.

 

[Puzzled]

Never heard of Cooper as a transport company but if he thinks horses don’t recover from travelling between Belfast to Liverpool then it’s probably because he has poor standards in his company….I wouldn’t be using him! Yes, it’s a pain that they have to come that way (blame the Brexit idiots!) but I import a large number of horses and if travelled correctly they all should arrive safely. Of course some are more tired than others and Rosslare to Fishguard is far more desirable but to say they never travel well after the Belfast trip is b******t!

 

[Cortez]

Another who is perplexed by your transporter's assertion re horses never recovering from an 8 hour journey. How do people manage to move horses internationally at all then? I've shipped horses from Spain, the US, Hungary, lots of far away places, and the vast majority bounce back just fine, some stepping off the lorry as if nothing had happened. Weird.

 

[Quigleyandme]

Yes, I get that now Puzzled. I don’t know what he got out of winding me up like that. He seemed like a nice man and it’s baffling really. I couldn’t use them if I wanted to because Cooper, Eric Gillie and Bramham all refused to transport my horse from Eire to UK and none of them operate from NI ports. I felt stuck between a rock and a hard place before George Mullins assured me they could and would take him no bother. They advised that I, as the consignee, state the value for VAT purposes and specified a sum that they routinely use when completing the VAT forms on behalf of the client and HMRC don’t quibble. It will be more expensive than shipping from NI because there is a requirement for a veterinary certificate, customs clearance, VAT, etc. but it’s worth it to me.

 

[hollyandivy123]

Sedgemoor Auction Centre | GTH

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I would give them a bell, if they can't help may suggest someone in the area that could

 

[Goldenstar]

How on earth do they manage to to do the overnight crossings from the continent and then go to work running races doing jumping the day after .
They get shipped from the North of Portugal to the south coast .
someone is definitely pulling your leg .
As for Ghillies if they are doing runs to Ireland it’s not because of the VAT because it’s the same for all the horses crossing the water from the east and they are certainly shipping those .

 

[archiesmum]

I bought my weanling from a stud in Ireland and he sailed from Dublin to Holyhead with Bramhams in November 2022. As I was a private buyer I did not need to pay VAT on import and they sorted the shipping papers for me as part of the price. They were fab from start to finish and were one of minority I contacted who were happy to drop him off at the yard, rather than wanting him collected at a motorway service station near Bristol.

 

[Quigleyandme]

Another who is perplexed by your transporter's assertion re horses never recovering from an 8 hour journey. How do people manage to move horses internationally at all then? I've shipped horses from Spain, the US, Hungary, lots of far away places, and the vast majority bounce back just fine, some stepping off the lorry as if nothing had happened. Weird.

I know, he said it twice really emphatically after I had told him I was again looking for a transporter to ship from Dublin/Rosslare after discovering the crossing from Belfast was eight hours. He had absolutely nothing to gain from it. I asked him for his opinion on the NI operator who was going to ship my horse out of Belfast and he said he’d never heard of him and he’s been in the business for over thirty years but the NI guy is a big name. I tend to take people at face value and having lost a nice young horse and racking up a massive vet bill I was too ready to believe the crossing is fraught with risk.

 

[Goldenstar]

Only thoroughbreds imported for breeding purposes are VAT exempt. Competition horses enter for a strictly limited period on a bond. I’ve been reliably informed that although I can evidence I purchased the horse in 2019 for €1800 and I’m willing to pay VAT on that value HMRC could and would add keep to his value.

I still confused about this Vat if there’s no sale how do they raise the claim .
He lived off grass you know you never fed him .

 

[Quigleyandme]

How on earth do they manage to to do the overnight crossings from the continent and then go to work running races doing jumping the day after .
They get shipped from the North of Portugal to the south coast .
someone is definitely pulling your leg .
As for Ghillies if they are doing runs to Ireland it’s not because of the VAT because it’s the same for all the horses crossing the water from the east and they are certainly shipping those .

A transporter gave me dodgy information for whatever reason and I believed him. I’m sorry to have outraged so many on here with my stupidity and gullibility. My bad. VAT on horses in ROI is 4.5%.

 

[Quigleyandme]

I still confused about this Vat if there’s no sale how do they raise the claim .
He lived off grass you know you never fed him .

HMRC raised VAT on the tatty, worthless but much loved jumper I returned to my DiL after she left it here by mistake. When I send the kids their Christmas box I have to declare the value as under £15 or HMRC raise VAT on it. My sister sent me a framed photograph of our late mother when I lived in the UK and I had to pay VAT on it. HMRC is rapacious.

 

[Merry neddy man]

Have a look on Google earth to find the best solution to the handover locations given by Annagain. #8. (There is a vets nextdoor to Bridgwater services with a carpark bigger than the services one if it's an out of hours handover)

 

[nagblagger]

HMRC raised VAT on the tatty, worthless but much loved jumper I returned to my DiL after she left it here by mistake. When I send the kids their Christmas box I have to declare the value as under £15 or HMRC raise VAT on it. My sister sent me a framed photograph of our late mother when I lived in the UK and I had to pay VAT on it. HMRC is rapacious.

Yet I travel to Ireland x 3 a year and could have anything in our battered camper. HMRC wouldn't know whether it was my tatty jumper or not.. it's ridiculous!

 

[Quigleyandme]

I bought my weanling from a stud in Ireland and he sailed from Dublin to Holyhead with Bramhams in November 2022. As I was a private buyer I did not need to pay VAT on import and they sorted the shipping papers for me as part of the price. They were fab from start to finish and were one of minority I contacted who were happy to drop him off at the yard, rather than wanting him collected at a motorway service station near Bristol.

They no longer ship direct route ROI to UK unless you are a registered client or VAT registered. It’s on their website. I spoke with them twice. Once asking them to clarify their position in case I had misunderstood and the second time to explain the horse was passing from mother to son without money changing hands. They didn’t want to know. Maybe the stud was a registered Bramhams client or VAT registered here in Ireland.

 

[Red-1]

All I can say is lucky horse, having you go to such lengths to ensure he has a shorter journey.

I have no idea of the VAT system, the seller of BH and transporter sorted it out for me. I wouldn't have known where to start!

 

[Annagain]

Thank you Annagain. That is so helpful. I’ll defo relocate pick up to one of your recommendations. It will be at sparrow’s cough following an overnight sailing so a transfer point with 24 hour access is required but I do want him to have a couple of turns round the lorry park before his onward travel.

Maybe one of the services then as I don't know for certain if the J23 place I mentioned will be accessible if the businesses are shut. I imagine the petrol station is 24 hr but I don't know for certain. Possibly Taunton as I THINK (but I'm not certain) that it's on the junction so accessible form all directions. Sedgemoor is definitely a services on each side of the motorway so depending where the people picking him up are coming from they might have to go up to the next junction and back down and the same again for the onward journey.

 

[Quigleyandme]

Maybe one of the services then as I don't know for certain if the J23 place I mentioned will be accessible if the businesses are shut. I imagine the petrol station is 24 hr but I don't know for certain. Possibly Taunton as I THINK (but I'm not certain) that it's on the junction so accessible form all directions. Sedgemoor is definitely a services on each side of the motorway so depending where the people picking him up are coming from they might have to go up to the next junction and back down and the same again for the onward journey.

He’s being transferred at Gordano now where family will collect him. George Mullins are unable to take him further but offered to arrange transfer but no need. £100 off the bill too.

 

[MissTyc]

HMRC raised VAT on the tatty, worthless but much loved jumper I returned to my DiL after she left it here by mistake. When I send the kids their Christmas box I have to declare the value as under £15 or HMRC raise VAT on it. My sister sent me a framed photograph of our late mother when I lived in the UK and I had to pay VAT on it. HMRC is rapacious.

Yep it's a reason I keep a painting I inherited in another country ... in that other country. I can't afford the VAT on bringing it home. Gutted as means I will need to sell it one day and bringing the money in is much cheaper. It's a much-loved painting that has a home for now but not forever!

Glad you sorted your horse's travel!