TB adverse behaviour issues and not moving well behind

[squeery]

Hi, i wonder if anyone has had a similar experience. My tb mare is 5 yrs old, ex flat racer (last raced in June this year). Purchased from trainer and racing fit at the time. Is now turned out 24/7 with shetland pony (hadn't been in a field for 4 yrs) very quickly settled, easy to catch etc. sweet nature and stands quietly to mount by block. However, the issues started a couple of weeks ago. Riding was going very well, just establishing canter (steady and very dainty) and the following day walk and trot okay, asked for canter and became disunited (canter front, trot behind) and felt very stiff behind the saddle. Went back to walk to resettle her and got a very 'nice' levade! Kept sticking her head up like a giraffe and reluctant and stiff to forward (only asked for walk) Instructor came and she was very stiff behind. Rested her for a few days but no real improvement. I then had a physio out and her back and shoulders (as suspected) were very sore - she called it old racing muscles as they were not relevant to a riding saddle. She loved the treatment! Gave her a few days off and then gentle lunging. However, yesterday trotting on lunge resulted in head up initially then coming down but the back end is my worry - her hind legs are not coming through at all and very up and down trot rather than forward.
Also behaviour wise she can be nasty (ie my daughter put her rug on and she threw her entire back end at her!) which is not how she has been with us at all until the last couple of weeks.
She is fed high fibre nuts, ready grass, sunflower oil and chaste berries powder (although will drop off the powder soon) with ad lib hay three times a day.
Clearly she is in some kind of pain/spasms - has anyone had anything similar with behaviour changes? Could it possibly be ulcers?
Any help greatfully received.
Thank you

 

[Meowy Catkin]

I agree that something is going on and whatever it is - it hurts. Yes, ulcers are a possibility but not the only one. I really think the next step is to get a Vet to look at her.

I really hope that you get to the bottom of the problem and she comes right soon.

 

[flintfootfilly]

Reluctance to go forward could be a muscle problem, so it may be that she is doing a small scale tying up when asked to do any work. There can be various underlying causes if it is that, and diet can be a problem - eg too much starchy food, or too little dietary selenium.

I would suggest you have a comprehensive blood test done after she's done no work for a couple of days (exercise will result in raised muscle enzymes in a normal horse, but these should return to normal within a couple of days in a normal horse). Be sure to ask for it to include muscle enzymes (CK, AST and LDH, but especially CK as that is the only one which is totally specific for muscle damage). But ask for a full profile in any case as that might show up if there's any problem eg with liver or with infection etc.

I would also check her diet to make sure she is receiving 1mg of selenium in the form of selenium yeast (aka Selplex or organic selenium) as this is the only form that appears to be effective with my gang who have all had muscle problems. Inorganic selenium (sodium selenite) did not bring about any sustained improvement in my gang over a 10 month period so I'd steer clear of any product which only contains that.

And I'd strip her diet back. Why is she getting chasteberries? Why is she getting sunflower oil? I don't know what's in the feeds which you are giving, but I'd have a word with 4 or 5 of the main feed companies and see what they would suggest and just keep it very simple.

Sarah

 

[claracanter]

My ex racer starting not coming through properly behind and also became a handful when ridden as his personality started to change. He had physio and she identified tightness behind the saddle, all the usual things but I felt there was an underlying issue.I got the vet out and he diagnosed bone spavin. The horse had steroid injections and all went well and he went back to being his old loveable self and moving much much better than he ever did.

 

[d_morrow]

I would want to rule out kissing spines. I had an ex-flat, ex-polo mare who became very stiff just hacking downhill. In trot, her head would be up and to one side and you could hear an extra click as the hind toe caught the ground. In walk she would intermittently produce a very weird gait which bounced the rider up and down. KS horses can have painful muscle spasms which affect the large hindquarter muscles which can be mistaken for tying up. I later learned that she had 'tied up' a lot when she left racing and went into polo, so they turned her away to let her down. My vet reckoned she had KS from her racing days but she was such a sweet-tempered mare that she had put up with it for a long time, eventually being retired from polo because they said she was lazy. She was actually a very willing little horse. Have a look at this article. I really hope it isn't KS but I believe there are better treatments nowadays. Good luck.
Http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/horse-care/vet-advice/explaining-kissing-spines/

 

[Busybusybusy]

Definitely get the vet to have a look as the symptoms sound very similar to those found with KS horses. If it turns out to be KS there's lots that can be done now - take a look at the Facebook group, Horses with kissing spine, many people who's horses have had different treatments.
My ex racer has KS and had an op to remove 4 spinous processes & is doing very well.

 

[Dreamer515]

ex racers are not used to using their hinquaters properly. sometimes when they are asked to use them they can cause muscle pains or back pains. or as above she may have tied up. either way its best to get a vet to see her to rule out anything else. i would suggest that you take back to basics and slowly and gently build up her hindquaters. you notice muscular pains more when asking for canter. some horses can get sore or some can get real funny and start getting fustrated hence why some buck going into canter. i had similar problems with my ex racer when i first got him. he was fine walking and trotting but when asked for canter he would drag his back end and go lame. i used draw reins/bungees for a while to help bring his head in and to engage his hindquaters while in trot then once he had the correct muscles i started cantering him. now he is fine though sometimes he decideds hes still a racer and drags his back end but those moments are few and far between now. hope that your mare gets better soon and its nothing to serious!

 

[squeery]

Thank you all for your replies - very interesting. In answer to Flintfootfilly - the ground chaste tree berries are a natural hormone balancer designed for mares (or indeed stroppy geldings!). Sometimes ex racers have been so fit since such a young age (she went into training as a yearling) that they can stop having a season and there was a possibility that the one she came into a few weeks ago may likely have been her first! The oil is for energy content (energy as in calories) and contains more calories per ml than feed. You are right in that diet is a stronger factor in behaviour than most people realise and selenium and magnesium levels need to be balanced.
Yikes! I hope KS is not on the agenda! However, I have spoken at length to an american vet and the racehorse rehab folks. No guarantees of course, but her symptoms are very typical of gastric ulcers (especially the severe attitude change from being groomed and rugged up around the lower abdomen). I have been strongly recommended to try her on pure aloe vera juice (not gel) which apparently is used by ott rehoming centres. About 80% of ex racers have ulcers (due to their management system in trianing yaards) and it is often overlooked as a course of irritability and movement issues.
My physio lady was very interesting to talk to as she said she felt racehorses didn't tend to have a 'voice' in a racing yard and went along with the flow. Whereas when they get into an individual home with one to one and kindness they have the ability to 'shout' that something is wrong. Interesting eh!! I hadn't thought of it that way, but she could be right. Of course, the downside is that some folks will just assume it is a TB being highly strung etc. The last ex racer I had (two decades ago!!) was great to ride but a real nasty character to handle and I am wondering if the poor sod had ulcer issues. Though at the time little was known and interestingly enough the equine gastric ulcer is still relatively unresourced.
Concern over scoping as this in itself can cause ulcers too.
The other thing is since her physio she now lies down and rolls in the field.
Will contact my vet for an examination to be sure as whilst indicating ulcer could be something else too. Oh boy, the joys of horse ownership!!