TB bad feet any improvement - pics? Advice?

L&B

L&B

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Some of you may have followed my other thread when my lad first went lame 6months ago... he lame at one stage even with nailed shoes on cos the old farrier had cut him that short & left no heel his hooves couldn't cope...

So, we took them off & had a month in Old Mac G2s (2bute), then went down the imprint route as the boots were making him sore and his foot was too weak, then Glu Shus & now glue on aluminiums, still with no bute, although we've hit a brick wall in that in that he just keeps throwing these cos the glue is lasting 5mins in this weather & going sore again without.
The new (vet employed) farrier is just as annoyed as me & is getting rattled at having to visit every 4weeks to glue alluminiums back on.

Also the insurance claim is running low & we have 5months left with it, so I really need to look at other options.

He's currently on: 1x feed per day of high fibre & speedibeet with: biotin, rosehips, seaweed, linseed, brewers yeast & magnesium oxide (for feet & all roundness) with no marked improvements...
Any suggestions?

Also, here are pictures of his feet: the ABOVE pics are most recent (1month ago) and the BELOW are 5months ago.

30b1zkx.jpg

34rcc5k.jpg
 
My TB mare had awful feet and it was all trial and error. She had a summer of no shoes and a winter with them off for three months too. Ultimately her management went like this. Fed winery senior as she was a poor doer and loved it and pro feet supplement in liquid form as I could syringe it into her mouth which she didn't mind yet she would not eat it! In summer she had restricted grazing as too much summer grass ruined her feet and she wore over reach boots on all four feet. I also rubbed cornucrescine into her coronary band and used Kevin bacon hoof dressing on lower foot. I also cleaned nail holes three times a week with eucalyptus oil as recommended by some one on here, helped clenches stay tight by not letting bacteria breed in nail holes I think and it really made a difference. We did have to shorten her shoeing interval to every five weeks but foot grew and clenches stayed tight with this management.

Don't know if any of that helps I'm sure the barefoot guys on here will have better ideas but I find it useful to hear others routines.
 
I think you need a specific hoof suppliment like pro hoof, forage plus or similar something balanced to uk grazing. Biotin and magnesium aren't enough. You may well be copper deficient too.

In what way did the old macs make him sore? Did you use pads with them? If he can't hold a shoe whether glue on or nail on you don't have many other options.
 
I dont see an issue with having the horse shod every 4 weeks, for it to improve the angles need to be kept on top of and after 4 weeks the toe will be growing long and having an effect on the angles so would expect to shoe every 4-5 weeks as standard to have most benefit. The faster the growth the quicker it will improve and if the diet is right the foot will grow faster and stronger, another reason to shoe more frequently.
I do not see why the farrier finds this unusual or gets frustrated, my horses are shod every 4-5 weeks and my farrier is more than happy as they are in far better condition than if left too long, especially in the spring and summer when they work harder and the feet grow more.
 
Crikey, you haven't made any progress at all in 5 months, have you :(. In fact the bottom pic looks better to me than the one above it, but I'm on my phone so pics are tiny.

I would definitely look at the forage plus hoof health balancer instead of the mag ox & biotin.

In your position I would definitely take shoes off and use boots and pads. The problem with letting the heels go mad underneath shoes is that they're not receiving any stimulation - the stimulation is absolutely key in cases like this imo.
 
I thought the "before" shot looked better too :(

What was the problem with using the boots? They should give the most comfort really.
 
Well that's encouraging... :l
Something mist have happened because he was previously lame in or out of shoes & now he's sound with glued on shoes...
As for the boots, they were making him site even with the pads due to moisture getting in I believe :l
 
Photos can be deceptive. If he is sound that is progress :)

Were the boots rubbing his skin then?

How long was he wearing them and what for? Did you try a gaiter or sock with them?
 
Photos can be misleading, but I'd tend to agree I'd not be happy with the lack of progress 5 months in. It is possible, (but hard to judge) that the hooves are more underrun now than they were. The sole may be thicker now but without seeing the hooves in the flesh I reserve judgement on that one.

I agree a more effective mineral supplement may be helpful. Pro Hoof or Forage Plus.
 
Honestly OP if that was my horse after 5 months I'd be worried. Sorry. I realise thats not what you want to hear but I also think the before pics look better. :(

Very pleased he is sound in glue on's but those feet are very sick and without dealing with that at a basic level you will struggle to progress. The glue ons are obviously helping him cope but they are not fixing the issue. It's a bit like giving a horse bute, it's makes them look better but it doesn't always make it better.

Strip his diet back completely and get a good comprehensive supplement. Good luck.
 
I'm sorry it wasn't what you wanted to hear OP, but the heels are more under run now than they were 5 months ago, and the hoof is more contracted. I would take his soundness with a rather large pinch of salt iiwy, because you're not heading in the right direction imo.
 
It's all very well placing doom and gloom on the matter but that doesn't help his situation nor my mental state... I am very very sensitive to the matter, owning horses yourself when you're trying your absolute best for them and they are above and beyond what you wake up in the morning for and what you live for, its a bitter pill to swallow hearing YOU are not doing a good enough job, see where I'm coming from? Especially considering he's sound and that's a giant improvement on how he was. I THOUGHT I'd pressed all the right people and taken advice and done all the right things, see?
I've done nothing but care for his feet, try supplements and overhall his entire feed regime (as previously suggested by others on here) and have spent close to £2800 on vets and farrier fees. Money isn't the point I'm making, but me 'sitting back' and simply allowing his feet to become underrun is certainly not either...
So yes, when you have a lot of love and a bond for a horse, being told his soundness and comfort is nothing as to how his feet look, is a bitter pill to swallow... I hope you understand?

I now have ordered some pro hoof from pro earth to add to his speedibeet feed (will cut out the high fibre) I'm not sure what more I can do?? I can ask for the front glue on shoes to be removed and for him to be trimmed every 4weeks, putting him in his old macs but I do not know how his feet will cope, nor what to say to the vet/farrier. 'Youre s*** and his heels are more underrun' ??
 
OP I know it's hard to hear, and no one said its all you're fault, only that whatever you're trying now isn't working.

I know you've had a lot of good advice, and perhaps it's a lot to take in. Maybe you should take a moment to go back over everything again. The pro hoof is a good start.

It sounds like your farrier doesn't have many ideas about how to proceed, so I think you'd really benefit from the support of an experienced hoof care practitioner. I'd suggest getting some recommendations for trimmers in your area with a good reputation.
 
I don't think that anyone's criticising your management of him, you're clearly trying your best.
I do tend to agree though that visually his feet have deteriorated since you took the first pictures.

I would be taking off the shoes and working him in boots to stimulate development of the back half of his foot. If the Old Macs are rubbing, try another type, as they all fit differently. It is very hard to correct underrun heels with shoes, even if you have a great farrier.
 
L&B, I do feel truly sorry for you, having a TB myself with feet problems I do know how despondent you are feeling!
Coming on here for advice can be helpful, but also a little hard sometimes as some of the answers can be a little blunt even though they are usually well meant!
At the end of the day it is your horse so you decide what you want to do, but I would agree that a consultation with a good trimmer would be well worth some consideration!
Don,t beat yourself up about things, you obviously love your horse and want to do what you can! Chin up!x
 
PoR Thankyou... That's lifted me :) its so hard to know who to trust considering a bad farrier set us back in the first instance and now I have a vet recommended one, you'd think it would be someone I can trust...
He's got him sound, which of course I was overwhelmed with! But it seems like backward peddling at the moment :'( his feet still aren't great, but where to go from here? I can't bare to keep seeing him in pain with nothing on his feet... Oh man, can anyone recommend a trimmer in the Derbyshire area?
 
I would try to find a good recommended UKNHCP trimmer and get them in every 4-5 weeks to begin with - that enables them to take a gently gently approach of little and often and I was amazed by how much progress my pony made in a few months with this approach compared with farrier. She went from flat feet and thin soles and very sore to heel first, thicker soles and rock crunching, and is even managing without boots up in the Cairngorm hills at this time of year when the grass is lushest, which I never thought I would see.

You haven't done anything wrong at all, in fact you've been a fantastic owner trying to solve your horses issues, it's just that you haven't hit on the solution yet, but it is out there, promise.

The other option would be to see if you could scrape together enough to go the Rockley route, but appreciate that might not be possible.
 
L&B said:
It's all very well placing doom and gloom on the matter but that doesn't help his situation nor my mental state... I am very very sensitive to the matter, owning horses yourself when you're trying your absolute best for them and they are above and beyond what you wake up in the morning for and what you live for, its a bitter pill to swallow hearing YOU are not doing a good enough job, see where I'm coming from? Especially considering he's sound and that's a giant improvement on how he was. I THOUGHT I'd pressed all the right people and taken advice and done all the right things, see?
I've done nothing but care for his feet, try supplements and overhall his entire feed regime (as previously suggested by others on here) and have spent close to £2800 on vets and farrier fees. Money isn't the point I'm making, but me 'sitting back' and simply allowing his feet to become underrun is certainly not either...
So yes, when you have a lot of love and a bond for a horse, being told his soundness and comfort is nothing as to how his feet look, is a bitter pill to swallow... I hope you understand?

I now have ordered some pro hoof from pro earth to add to his speedibeet feed (will cut out the high fibre) I'm not sure what more I can do?? I can ask for the front glue on shoes to be removed and for him to be trimmed every 4weeks, putting him in his old macs but I do not know how his feet will cope, nor what to say to the vet/farrier. 'Youre s*** and his heels are more underrun' ??
Click to expand...

Sorry but no one said YOU werent doing a good enough job, you asked a question, you didnt get the answer you asked for, sorry but thats how it works sometimes. You asked if they looked better - the answer is no, you asked if there was anything you could do - you got told diet and supplement. Don't take it personally, its not. Every reply you get is someone trying to help you and your horse.

The fact you care enough to be on here in the first place with pictures asking questions shows you're doing something to help him - no one is questioning your commitment towards your horse, you have already gone further and done more than most owners who would just have shoved shoes/pads/whatever on to mask it and just kicked on. Well done you, you have my utmost respect for doing that.

I have 4 b/f TB's. It's not easy, and sometimes you need to do things that seem like a step back to go forwards. I really feel for you that someone has let his feet get so bad and now you're left to deal with it :( Just remember that you now have the opportunity to sort his feet out and, hopefully, make him sound and happy and able to go onto be a ridden horse for a lot longer than he may have been able to before. He'll thank you for that! :)
 
L&B said:
PoR Thankyou... That's lifted me :) its so hard to know who to trust considering a bad farrier set us back in the first instance and now I have a vet recommended one, you'd think it would be someone I can trust...
He's got him sound, which of course I was overwhelmed with! But it seems like backward peddling at the moment :'( his feet still aren't great, but where to go from here? I can't bare to keep seeing him in pain with nothing on his feet... Oh man, can anyone recommend a trimmer in the Derbyshire area?
Click to expand...


I've read all of this thread, and yep the fact is that they do look to have deteriorated further in those photos, but no on on here has said you are s***. It is clear that you are really trying and dedicated to this. It is such a shame that your insurance company will not support him going to rockley. Someone else asked on this thread if you yourself can send him, but I suppose that's probably a no, I suspect if you could you already would have. Have you had a chat with rockley though, perhaps they can come up with a suitable plan of action that you can follow at home. Perhaps they have experienced similar issues and are able to recommend boots more suited to your boy. You clearly have a long way to go and it is demoralising to see very little progress so far in, but sometimes that is how it is, if it were me, I would call rockley, I'd ask if I could email them a detailed layout of photos, diet, and all that has been tried to date... See where that takes you. I would also query with them if they had recieved any clients who have been sent to them via your insurance company, if the answer is yes, you should approach your insurance company, make mention of this, and send another letter from yourself, your vet, your farrier and if possible rockley. Just because the insurance company turned down your request doesn't mean you should leave it there, they may change their mind, especially if they have said yes to other customers horses in the past.

Also, I would not give up,
 
I never said anyone here had said I was s*** just that the volume of negative replies made me feel downhearted - offence is taken, not given. S*** was in relation to what to say to the farrier.
I have already spoken to rockley 5months ago when this first started who said they simply could not say without seeing him in person - I provided extensive background, photos and diet/regime sheets.
I cannot afford rockley and you're right, I wouldn't be wasting my time if I could. Also the boots he has were the boots recommended to me by many people on here and people specific to that field.


To update: farrier has been this afternoon and he said when greeted with my dismay that others have suggested that his hoof hadn't improved that he can only work with the hoof he grows, ie: none and because of his awful conformation in his lower leg, all of his weight is down through his heel all the while he is standing, thus causing his heel to become underrun and collapse.
The remaining glue on shoe has again been removed and he is in his Old Macs, dog lame and unhappy. Vert much the same way I feel...
What were the glue on aluminiums doing that his boots clearly are not??
 
The shoes will lift his soles and frogs off the ground, they will also have a numbing effect.

The boots will keep his soles and frogs in contact with the ground (or sole of the boot) and he will be able to feel the ground.

If he was my horse i would not want to shoe him and I hope that the vet can help you get him comfortable. The problem is that his hooves will only get worse with shoes, but he is more comfortable in shoes. Talk about a vicious circle. :(

Do you have a sand school that you can turn him out in? Could you try gaiters/socks and pads in your Old Macs? Or maybe try some renegades or equifusion boots?

I really feel for you. I have been where you are and it is almost unbearable.
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=549121
 
My horse was a cripple when his front shoes came off, I had him turned out in cavallos with pads in and I padded the heel area as well and I had him on danilon! He was turned out in boots for about eleven weeks before he was comfy enough to go without and his feet were terrible, but they do improve given time!:)
 
Debbie at Bakewell trims one on our yard with good results. I would need to check her surname. I got goid feedback on her on the phoenix forum too but I haven't switched to a trimmer as I am having good results with my farrier. You know who trims mine.........
 
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