Tb ex racer, bad front feet, bare behind, now ready for the fronts. Help/advise neede

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thatsmygirl

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Iv taken on a ex racer who's raced for 8 years and iv had him 8 weeks, currently on hol having a well earned break. He's been bare foot behind for the 8 weeks iv had him and I'm really happy with those BUT I'm now ready to try his fronts but they are really bad and currently has natural balance shoes on, now I would like any advise to help in any way in all areas to help this hopefully go smoothly. He's being fed now on alfa a oil, speedibeet, micro linseed, mag oz, brewers yeast, garlic, vit supplement and pro feet by
naf. He needs a bit more weight so what's best to add to his current diet to do this? He was on baileys top line cubes but have stopped them cause off the starch and the fact it's not cereal free. Also is alfa a really that bad for bare foot horses? Thanks guys
 
I have found that hinds are usually pretty easy to get barefoot. Fronts can be far more problematical. In the circumstances you describe ie the fronts are not that good I wouldn't even try to go barefoot initially but would boot the fronts.

I would use the time then to get the trim sorted (or non trim whatever you decide) to sort the thrush, the diet and generally get him comfortable around the yard and riding out in boots.

Then I would start taking the boots off for short periods of road walking on smooth tarmac,(no gravel) in hand if necessary. They start building that up from 10 minutes a day over a period of time until you are doing a lot of work on good surfaces barefoot and booting only for difficult surfaces. As you go along this route you will be able to work through the problems which crop up knowing that your feet are not footsore through overwork.
Some people will think this a slow and pedantic way to go but it is a bit like the hare and the tortoise, It gets there in the end just as quickly as other ways.

Alfalfa is not bad for all barefoot horses. It is just one of the danger items if one is footy. Simply a case of trying it on your lad to see. If he is footy remove it and see if things improve.
 
Thanks paddy555 that's great. He's not in work at the mo anyway so just walking from stables to field, which is Tarmac yard, gravel track and than field. I will boot him when he comes back into work but at the mo wasn't going to as he's not doing anything
 
You're taking the shoes off your TB???? Are you insane??? His feet will explode!
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I personally don't like alfalfa. I fed it in buckets to my old boy with dodgy teeth but saw miraculous changes in his hooves when I ditched it in favour of Fast Fibre, Speedibeet and minerals.

If his fronts are pathological hooves (as in, not healthy) then you may see a weight gain when he is bare and balanced. A lot of horses gain weight and muscle up when they go barefoot.

I am a fan of Fast Fibre because it's basically a haynet in a bucket so it's an easy way to sneak more food in to a poor doer without messing with the pH of the hind gut via cereals.
But your diet appears great. If your horse is doing well, then keep on it as is;)
There is the option of oats if he requires more energy for work. There is also Coolstance copra for weight if necessary.

Regarding his hooves for transition...

GET BOOTS! They will help him keep working, which will grow stronger feet.
Be on hand to deal with any fungal infections he may have lurking.

He needs to be landing heel first, so you need to make this possible for him.

Also be aware that taking him barefoot may throw up any niggling body issues - he may need a visit from a good body worker at some point.

OR he may be fine and dandy from day one;)

Pics of his feet would be nice.
 
If I could post pics I would, can't via my phone which is a real shame as there is some great people on here which offers great advice for bare foot, you being one off those Oberon. I'm willing to get boots which I was going to do and have also ordered the book " feet first" for some Reading. I know fast fiber is great but just feel it wouldn't add condition. I feel as he's just finished racing with a hol now until nxt spring it's a perfect time to start him on bare foot with front boots only when he needs them and will try my best to make it work. He has very flat feet and long toes and at present has square toe balance shoes!!! I just feel his feet could do with a break anyway but really want to go down the bare foot route.
Any more input would be great, will look into the coolstance copra as I don't know anything about that food tbh. Iv got 5 other horses on their way to being barefoot with front boots but feel this lad is going to be the challenge when his fronts come off.
 
If you are trying to avoid starch then maybe alpha a isn't the best as I am sure it is molassed. Tbs seem to do well on top spec. call their help line and get some advice, they are really good. My girl is not a great do-er and has been on top spec for abaout 3 years and I have had good results. also low starch. watch with the starch thing as some say they are low and are actually about 15%, lower than some but not really that low. Personally I wouldn't use lots of different feeds, I think it is harder to keep track of what you are actually putting into them.
 
You've already had good advice but just another thing to add, IME it takes racers a bit of time for their digestive systems to adjust to a 'normal' feeding routine, so it may take some time for him to build up to the condition you'd like.
I personally wouldn't feed garlic either, it has natural anti-biotic properties and this can be counter-productive when trying to encourage a healthy digestive system.

Also echo Oberons suggestion of a body worker, i've always found that ex-racers need some body work anyway but i've especially found with feet that the feet improve and the body needs tweaking which makes the feet improve again. :)
 
Amymay he's been out off racing for about 8 weeks, I brought him a week after his last run and has raced for 8 years bless him.
Iv already had his back looked at thinking if there was any real problems iv got plenty off time to work on it before he comes into work next spring but apart from a sore wither all was fine and she don't want to see him until after about 6 weeks work when he comes back in next year. Teeth have also been done and they were very bad.
He's on alfa a oil chestnuttymare so he don't get the molasses and seems ok with this.
Maggiesmum I feed garlic to all mine apart from my sweetitch highland but have been told it's not great before!!! So will re look into that.
 
Ok, so you need to feed him very carefully, as he will be racing fit, rather than undetweight. I also wouldn't rush to take his front off just yet either.
 
I agree with amymay, dont be in too much of a hurry, we will at some stage get some very hard frosts and he could become very footy. I have a TB with bad front feet but they have improved dramaticaly with Blue Chip balancer.
 
Good point about the frosts, hadn't thought off that. I use to feed topspec balancer at one point to the whole yard but after about 10 months their feet became so bad I took them all off it. Don't know why it was but my farrier noticed the difference as well
 
Its because balancers are only balanced to themselves - they do not take into account the vitamins / minerals they're already consuming in his forage so could actually be creating a massive imbalance.
Years ago I had great results with bluechip on one yard but when I moved to another yard in a different area it didn't seem to have the same effect, equally I out all 5 on top spec and it turned them all into lunatics within 48 hours, clearly they were either overdosing on something or a high level of one mineral was blocking the uptake of another causing 'the crazys'!
For a true picture you'd need to get a full forage analysis, not cheap initially but from then on no feeding of unnecessary supplements. :)
 
maggiesmum said:
Its because balancers are only balanced to themselves - they do not take into account the vitamins / minerals they're already consuming in his forage so could actually be creating a massive imbalance.
Years ago I had great results with bluechip on one yard but when I moved to another yard in a different area it didn't seem to have the same effect, equally I out all 5 on top spec and it turned them all into lunatics within 48 hours, clearly they were either overdosing on something or a high level of one mineral was blocking the uptake of another causing 'the crazys'!
For a true picture you'd need to get a full forage analysis, not cheap initially but from then on no feeding of unnecessary supplements. :)
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That is very interesting maggiesmum. I can see your point. I am only feeding Happy Hoof chaff speedibeet and balancer. I would hope that nothing is fighting with each other, what do you think? He was emaciated when I got him last Feb, and now looks a picture of health. He is a fizzy horse and this regime seems to work.
 
OP - I had my TB mare's shoes taken off on Friday by a UKNHCP barefoot trimmer who was great. She is the same position as yours - out of work until next Spring, so like yours, she is coming and going from the field. The only place she is a bit footy is over the stony 10 yards which lead to the field.
I would say your diet sounds great. I tried my mare with Fast Fibre - it was a non starter -She won't touch it under any circumstances. She will only eat speedibeet in the evenings and not in a morning, so I am a bit stuck! However she will eat Spillers High Fibre cubes, so she will be having those for breakfast. I'm also giving mine micronised linseed, magox and brewers yeast. The Spillers High fibre cubes are 5% sugar the same as speedibeet, but have 10% starch - not ideal, but not too bad either. They're about the best cubes that I can find, and I really need to get food into her so that she doesn't lose too much condition...
 
My farrier is great when it comes to shoeing but he grows horns when bare foot is mentioned, but while mine are shod in front I still use him as he's very reliable. I'm trying to convert him :) and trim my horses back feet as I want them rather than perpairing them for a shoe so to speak.
 
thatsmygirl said:
My farrier is great when it comes to shoeing but he grows horns when bare foot is mentioned, but while mine are shod in front I still use him as he's very reliable. I'm trying to convert him :) and trim my horses back feet as I want them rather than perpairing them for a shoe so to speak.
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If I were you I would get a UKNHCP barefoot trimmer.....my farrier was totally supportive of me getting one and in fact wants to meet her to see how she does things, but then he is an exception to the norm!
 
Holly hocks how do you feel about the frozen ground we are going to have soon? Me being thick it didn't cross my mind until it was mentioned above. Will be interesting to know how your mare goes, you going to keep her bare foot
 
Echo Bravo said:
Why don't you ask the expert, YOUR FARRIER
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There's no harm in asking for more than one opinion. I'm sure the OP is sensible enough to make her own mind:)

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I have to disagree about farriers (or ANYONE) being the expert. There's something for everyone to learn, no matter how well qualified or experienced they may be.

OP - I'm sorry your farrier 'grows horns' about barefoot.
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You may find yourself needing more support than he's willing to provide.

If you wanted to email me pics I'm happy to put them up for you. PM me if you want and I'll send you my email:).
 
Oh your lucky I wish my farrier was like that. A trim is frogs pared, sole all cut off and not a lot left but I'm getting good at saying " please don't touch his back feet they are coping really well as they are" it's hard when he says diet has nothing to do with hoof health either but the vet says it's the best shoeing they have seen in a long time so I don't know. I wouldn't want to use a trimmer and put my farriers nose out as I love him but he has his strong views :)
 
thatsmygirl said:
Holly hocks how do you feel about the frozen ground we are going to have soon? Me being thick it didn't cross my mind until it was mentioned above. Will be interesting to know how your mare goes, you going to keep her bare foot
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Well I did mention this to her and she didn't think it would be a problem - as my mare has pretty good feet for a TB anyway. To be honest I would rather she was out without shoes on frozen or snowy ground than with shoes anyway. If it becomes a problem, then I will have to get her some boots, or limit her turnout, but I'll wait for that to happen.....I don't have a problem with putting boots on her if necessary.
 
thatsmygirl said:
Oh your lucky I wish my farrier was like that. A trim is frogs pared, sole all cut off and not a lot left but I'm getting good at saying " please don't touch his back feet they are coping really well as they are" it's hard when he says diet has nothing to do with hoof health either but the vet says it's the best shoeing they have seen in a long time so I don't know. I wouldn't want to use a trimmer and put my farriers nose out as I love him but he has his strong views :)
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That's where your problem is - paring the frogs and the soles - it isn't necessary and it shouldn't be done in barefoot horses.....when you read Feet First, you'll realise why.....
 
I can't wait for the book to come, and to think 6 months or so ago I was so anti bare foot but this forum does make you think and now after all the backs taken off I am really very interested in learning more and having a go
 
thatsmygirl said:
Holly hocks how do you feel about the frozen ground we are going to have soon? Me being thick it didn't cross my mind until it was mentioned above. Will be interesting to know how your mare goes, you going to keep her bare foot
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I wouldn't be concerned about the frosts. If you waited for 'the perfect weather' you'll be waiting a long time
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It's necessary to be cautious around grass and frosts with EVERY horse. It's just something to be mindful of with him.

Taking the shoes off isn't as scary as people make it out to be...as long as you have the right support behind you;)
 
I'm scared ;) honestly, my welsh x is having his fronts taken off next week and think he will be fine but I am bricking it with this lad, he's next. Doing 1 at a time and pacing myself slowly :)
iv got no support from other liveries all I get is, don't be stupid he's a tb or he won't bloody stand without his shoes, he's flat footed though etc. But hey I'm not anti shoe if it really don't work that's fine but want to try my best
 
thatsmygirl said:
I'm scared ;) honestly, my welsh x is having his fronts taken off next week and think he will be fine but I am bricking it with this lad, he's next. Doing 1 at a time and pacing myself slowly :)
iv got no support from other liveries all I get is, don't be stupid he's a tb or he won't bloody stand without his shoes, he's flat footed though etc. But hey I'm not anti shoe if it really don't work that's fine but want to try my best
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It really annoys me when people assume TBs won't cope
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. Tb's cope with some of the most pathological feet imaginable and yet still work and race:(

There is a culture of acceptance around Tb's - that it's inevitable and acceptable for them to have dreadful hooves.
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I know a beautiful horse who's hooves make me want to cry every time he walks past me. And the owner scratches their head whenever said horse goes mysteriously lame
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Sorry to hijack a bit but what exactly is it about the alfa a that can cause a problem, and can I assume that since Hi Fi has alfalfa in it the same can be said for this too?
 
I'm interested as well queenbee, iv just heard that it can make horses footy but why I'm not sure. Wondered what else I could use but alfa a oil seems to be very low sugar/starch conpaired to others
 
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