TB ExRacer - Stable VICES

[BeauRocks]

Hi
wondered if anyone can help me with our TB ExRacer.

He is good in the field and has no known vices (as yet we have had him about 4 months now).

However is becoming increasing aggressive in the stable particularly around food.....
He will lunge from the back of the stable at you when you enter with a hay net for him!!
Generally he puts his ears back at you if he already has a haynet but doesnt lunge.

He is a funny horse with a stubborn nature - ie if he does not want to pass something he trys to fight with you.

He has not had it easy with various things since we bought him including a virus, mud fever, and he has broken the mid part of his nose / face - i am unsure how but can only think he hit it on the top of the stable door as he lunged a passing person who didnt take kindly to it.

We have had the vet out on numerous occasions to ensure he is ok - which he is. He had a vetting by us when we bought him, and one by the previous owner 6 months prior (unfortunately he was bought for a younger girl who wasnt strong enough with him - so they sold him to us). Do you think it could be because he is not settled? we arent going to sell him on or give up on him as i think he needs stability in his life. We need to try a new method with him as we hate seeing him like it.

He has been professionally retrained.
He loves his stable toys and bordem breakers.
He has had the sugars stripped from his diet, and replaced with mainly fibre based food as he had hightened GGT levels

And he will have a scratch and cuddle if 'HE' is in the mood. He likes to work, and enjoys schooling or hacking out.

My two thoughts were either being stabled too much - unfortunately where we are at our current yard we only get between 6 - 8 hours turn out a day (more like 6 hours per day during the week). is this causing a problem?

the other is lack of disapline - are we not firm enough with him - when he lunges we stand our ground and tell him off... i have just read up about increasing personal space etc

If anyone could give me some helpful advice or ideas, i would be very grateful.... Thank you.

 

[AmyMay]

He just sounds a bit of an old grump. And as long as you can work around it - he'll probably come right for you.

 

[ImmyS]

Hi
wondered if anyone can help me with our TB ExRacer.

He is good in the field and has no known vices (as yet we have had him about 4 months now).

However is becoming increasing aggressive in the stable particularly around food.....
He will lunge from the back of the stable at you when you enter with a hay net for him!!
Generally he puts his ears back at you if he already has a haynet but doesnt lunge.

He is a funny horse with a stubborn nature - ie if he does not want to pass something he trys to fight with you.

He has not had it easy with various things since we bought him including a virus, mud fever, and he has broken the mid part of his nose / face - i am unsure how but can only think he hit it on the top of the stable door as he lunged a passing person who didnt take kindly to it.

We have had the vet out on numerous occasions to ensure he is ok - which he is. He had a vetting by us when we bought him, and one by the previous owner 6 months prior (unfortunately he was bought for a younger girl who wasnt strong enough with him - so they sold him to us). Do you think it could be because he is not settled? we arent going to sell him on or give up on him as i think he needs stability in his life. We need to try a new method with him as we hate seeing him like it.

He has been professionally retrained.
He loves his stable toys and bordem breakers.
He has had the sugars stripped from his diet, and replaced with mainly fibre based food as he had hightened GGT levels

And he will have a scratch and cuddle if 'HE' is in the mood. He likes to work, and enjoys schooling or hacking out.

My two thoughts were either being stabled too much - unfortunately where we are at our current yard we only get between 6 - 8 hours turn out a day (more like 6 hours per day during the week). is this causing a problem?

the other is lack of disapline - are we not firm enough with him - when he lunges we stand our ground and tell him off... i have just read up about increasing personal space etc

If anyone could give me some helpful advice or ideas, i would be very grateful.... Thank you.

If he is happy turned out I would personally try and find somewhere with 24/7 turnout for him, my tb thrives off living out 24/7 and would make him less stressed/food aggressive.

My tb is also very grumpy in general but especially around food, only affectionate on her terms etc... If she is ever grumpy if threatening towards me I move her using my body language, may it be backing her up, moving her on etc.. I will then stop moving her, not look at her and wait until she looks at me, even just out of the corner of her eye, in a positive manner I.e ears forward or relaxed and respectful. If she doesn't then I make her move again until she does and then she can go back to eating or then have her personal space. It is working really well.

Good luck

 

[dark_prince]

Sounds exactly like my TB exracer. He has improved over time. Not really sure how, but I think it's a combination of being firm, but not bossy or nasty with him, having more people handle him, ignoring him as reacting to him made him nastier, and just time.

Sorry I'm not much help!

 

[dark_prince]

If he is happy turned out I would personally try and find somewhere with 24/7 turnout for him, my tb thrives off living out 24/7 and would make him less stressed/food aggressive.

My tb is also very grumpy in general but especially around food, only affectionate on her terms etc... If she is ever grumpy if threatening towards me I move her using my body language, may it be backing her up, moving her on etc.. I will then stop moving her, not look at her and wait until she looks at me, even just out of the corner of her eye, in a positive manner I.e ears forward or relaxed and respectful. If she doesn't then I make her move again until she does and then she can go back to eating or then have her personal space. It is working really well.

Good luck

Also, mine was very food aggressive...much better now but can still get grumpy. I found more turnout helps and also ignoring his faces and carrying on as normal so he doesn't think it's anything special.

 

[Spring Feather]

I find that ex-racers do much better if turned out 24/7. Mine are all pretty good in stables but I only bring them in a couple of times a year. They are all mares and very easy going, cuddly and totally non-aggressive. I feed them adlib hay and a balancer once a day. I am gentle with my mares as they really don't warrant or require any heavy handedness. It's very rare I ever need to tell one of them off but if I do it's always in a low key way because they've never done anything that deserves a big telling off. I am cautious about which equine vet I use for them. One vet I use is a great vet but he is too firm with these girls and he gets them all worried and wound up. So I use another vet for them and he is much more sensitive to their ways. I think if you were to try your gelding on 24/7 turnout that you might see most of these issues resolved.

 

[longdog]

Might be worth treating for ulcers?

 

[ellie11987]

Hi
He is good in the field and has no known vices (as yet we have had him about 4 months now).
However is becoming increasing aggressive in the stable particularly around food.....
He will lunge from the back of the stable at you when you enter with a hay net for him!!
Generally he puts his ears back at you if he already has a haynet but doesnt lunge.

And he will have a scratch and cuddle if 'HE' is in the mood. He likes to work, and enjoys schooling or hacking out.

My two thoughts were either being stabled too much - unfortunately where we are at our current yard we only get between 6 - 8 hours turn out a day (more like 6 hours per day during the week). is this causing a problem?

the other is lack of disapline - are we not firm enough with him - when he lunges we stand our ground and tell him off... i have just read up about increasing personal space etc

My first thought would be a lack of discipline, as he sounds like he is walking all over you. This is probably heightened as he has only been there for 4 months and sounds like he is testing you and seeing how far he can push you. Believe me, I had the same problem with my ex racer. Once you both find out where you stand then they are normally fine. I used to do small things to make a difference with my mare such as asking her to back up when I walked into the stable so I wasn't fighting for space (automatic response now). 24/7 turnout made a big difference too (much grumpier on 8 hour in winter). Also, i stopped trying to get her to want a big scratch and cuddle, that wasn't what she wanted (still isn't really) so I leave her be, she gives me my space, I give her her space. If you want a sloppy relationship with your horse then your not going to get one, you just need some respect as at the moment it sound like he is top dog. Last thought would be ulcers as already mentioned.

 

[putasocinit]

Most racers and ex racers are rather anxious towards their food, it is all a big act and if you hold back in fear they will react, be poitive ignore walk foward and hang up net or put feed in manger this is what they have been accustomed to and being aggressive will only make it worse.

I hope his face isnt too sore, and the passer by was disciplined, no need to be violent to any horse whether it is in the right or the wrong, poor boy. Maybe more turn out but 6 hrs is good and a grill on the door to avoid anymore knockings about the face.

 

[JillA]

I'd be palpating for ulcers a well - as shown by Dr De Paulo on the Youtube video. It is now thought that a very high percentage of racers suffer from ulcers and they do spend long journeys etc with no food in the stomach. Food might hurt him at the same time as he knows he needs it - big frustration, so big anger.

 

[BeauRocks]

thank you so much for all your advice and tips.... i have had a good read up on ulcers, watched Mark DePaolo video on You Tube and tried the 'making myself bigger' tactic this morning - needless to say he was a little taken aback!!! thanks again for all the thoughts, shared experiences and ideas - all very much appreciated.

 

[ghostie]

If you suspect ulcers talk to your vet, but 60.ml of pure aloe vera juice syringed once a day can be very helpful. It's what the racehorse rehoming centres do and it works well

 

[Antw23uk]

Stick with it, he will come right.

My new mare was just vile when i first got her. She is very food agressive and was taught 'Away' by her previous owner so as you approach the stable you say 'away' and she circles the stable. The idea being by the time she has circled and is back by the door you have opened the door and put the food in and your out again. It works really well for us but the more we bond the less I need to tell her to 'away'.

She did lift her back leg threatening to kick me the other evening when i was hanging up a haynet. I did a controlled explosion at her and she jumped about a foot in the air and just looked at me in shock. I dont like telling a horse off and I certainly do not agree with agression on agression but her behaviour was unacceptable and she needed to know this. So far since we are back on talking terms and I dont see it happening again!

Thoroughbreds, especially ex racers do get a rough time but once you understand your horse you will be so glad you stuck with him.

My mare isnt very affectionate which took some getting used to, she pushes the boundaries almost daily and i dread to think what she would do to someone with less confidence but i adore her and she is starting to show much loyalty

 

[Mark Gilbert]

Sounds like you have been treating him well! probably too well.

Remember ex race horses love routine, if you are going to change anything do it slowly, if he is hacking out and decides he wants to go in a different direction then don't let him, even if you have to get off to lead him, don't hit him use your voice! I have one at the moment who when hacking away from home refuses to go through floods, so I have to reverse her through it, but coming home she suddenly has no fear of water!!! now who said ex races horses were stupid!

When he has been in an environment where he has been treated firmly going to a new place where he thinks you are going to treat him as if he is special he will take advantage, remember firm but fair.

 

[NaomiA]

Hey,

My ex racer TB was horrible, I first bought him as a calm 5 year old who within a week turned vile. He has put me in A&E by randomly grabbing me with his teeth, he's bitten by partners face and also bit my mums chest. We had a behaviour specialist come out to him who assessed him and advised he was trying to be top dog.

Everytime he did something wrong or got too close, I would shake his lead rope in the air and say "ah ah" - I laughed when she first told me this, as if this would work! With join up and a good routine it did. I have to really be disciplined with him, if he walks forward whilst tied up and I dont want him to I have to put him back where he was, if his ears go back and he warns me off, I have to wave my arms around but it works, he knows I won't hurt him and therefore doesn't come back at me. It's definately not easy and unfortunately I haven't always won the battles but he also stands at the other side of the stable whilst I put his hay and feed in, and does not move until I say he can (he used to just barge me out of the way), all this from waving a lead rope about and saying "ah-ah". I have had him a year now and I think it will take another 3 until I can walk past his stable door without fear of the dark giant jumping from the back of his stable to the door to get me but we are getting there.

Hope this helps.

 

[Spotsrock]

My boy is food aggressive (or was when he got here) but I ignored him snapping at me and he never actually connected. I am too small for him at 5ft 2 and him at 16'3 but he submits to me as if I beat him daily - not shaking or nervous but I mean without challenge or question, just puts his ears back and lets me take his feed bucket if I need to or fiddle with his nets etc. He stands ears back and grumbles to himself but doens't make a move to me.

I have never been aggressive with him or even disciplined him over it much - I ignore totally his food aggression.

The difference is despite rock bottom confidence when I met him, a fear of hind legs and teeth and a crippling terror of falling off, I just trusted him. When he became mine I already knew I trusted him not to hurt me no matter what. Don't get me wrong, I have had the odd wobble under saddle but to handle I trust him. he backed me into a corner once and I shouted at him and came storming out of the corner pointing at his face and sooo angry he hid at the back of the box then came and licked my face to apologise.

When he pulls grumps I grab his head and snuggle up to him with kisses and rubs. He hasn't really got a choice, love and cuddle or shut up and put up! I think mobbing my boy up when he feels cranky is the only way to deal with him.

THIS MAY NOT BE SAFE WITH YOUR HORSE but the point is, usually they behave this way because they get what they want - in your boy's case, left alone. Horses are herd animals dependant on a dominance structure, not agression; dominance/confidence. I'm confdent round my lad so he defers to me. Sounds like your lad has learnt this behaviour and you have inherited it not caused it.

I'd ignore it as much as you are safe to do so and reward when he doesn't do it. Wear bp and hat to tie up nets so you are safe to move him out of the way and 'own' the net till it is up and you are out.

Good luck. I love that you say he's going nowhere and you will stick with it - please be aware that you may not be this horse's solution and if he really is too much long term 'sticking with' may not be the best thing, but for now, good on you and good luck.

 

[ktj1891]

My ex racer was like this I got him straight from racing. He windsucks terribly and is food agressive. From the set go I made him wait for his tea, so he would have to stay away from the field bowl until I moved away. I can go near him eating now find, but he will try and bite and has on a few occasions while I have done his rug when eating. Cannot feed him in field with others as it will turn into world war 3 but then again it would even if he wasnt food possesive.

Hes a lovely chap and not grumpy in his stable otherwise. But like quite a lot of ex racers they dont seem to show their 'personality' for a long time and like yours mine doesnt really 'like' being groomed etc. Hes coming around a bit now and I have had him 2 years. Just be patient and firm with him, he will probably come around to you eventually but it takes time.

I know some horses that will just always be aggressive in stable, some fine with others and bad with normal people. I dont think you can do anything hugely about it, we have a couple at our yard just plain vicious in the stable but out of it there are such nice people.

I think your on the right track though with a good diet and turnout plan. Just perservere with him. Good luck.

 

[Spotsrock]

Hey,

My ex racer TB was horrible, I first bought him as a calm 5 year old who within a week turned vile. He has put me in A&E by randomly grabbing me with his teeth, he's bitten by partners face and also bit my mums chest. We had a behaviour specialist come out to him who assessed him and advised he was trying to be top dog.

Everytime he did something wrong or got too close, I would shake his lead rope in the air and say "ah ah" - I laughed when she first told me this, as if this would work! With join up and a good routine it did. I have to really be disciplined with him, if he walks forward whilst tied up and I dont want him to I have to put him back where he was, if his ears go back and he warns me off, I have to wave my arms around but it works, he knows I won't hurt him and therefore doesn't come back at me. It's definately not easy and unfortunately I haven't always won the battles but he also stands at the other side of the stable whilst I put his hay and feed in, and does not move until I say he can (he used to just barge me out of the way), all this from waving a lead rope about and saying "ah-ah". I have had him a year now and I think it will take another 3 until I can walk past his stable door without fear of the dark giant jumping from the back of his stable to the door to get me but we are getting there.

Hope this helps.

My lad tries to bite the mares as they go by, I point at his face and do the old 'ah ah ah' and he backs off and lets them pass! They are like small children!!!

 

[Victoria25]

Interesting post, my new TB has been doing this recently having been in for a few weeks with my other mare who is on box rest, I just put it down to grumpiness of being in (she does have the option of going out but just runs back to her stable) - fortunately my friend I share the yard with her horse is now on box rest so they can stay in together and my TB can go and play out ... she also hates having rugs put on!!

 

[Holly Hocks]

My last ex-racer could be a swine in the stable - in fact I was at one yard where the last person on the yard fed them all together at night and there were certain people who were frightened of putting his feed in as he would lunge at them. He bit my backside so hard once when he lunged at me that I have a permanent lump there - it happened about 7 years ago!
As he got older he got much better but like yours, thrived on turnout (unless it was bad weather when he would stand at the gate wanting to come in).

Just stick with it - they're often food protective. Make sure he has ad lib hay/haylage so there's always something in his stomach.
Even with my current TB who isn't food protective I never leave her without forage, ever.

 

[pines of rome]

I have had my boy three years now, when I first got him he was horrible, evil faces all the time, threatening at feed time and trying to invade my space!
It really is normally a time thing, once they trust and respect you they can become lovely horses!
On the whole mine is quite loving now, we do sometimes get faces just to keep me on my toes, but when I sternly say "FACE" to him, he stops it!