TB in poor condition - Advice Please!!

There is so much I would love to say about the yard and the YO on here (as you can imagine) but I won't. I'll be sure to print out this thread for her to read for herself at her leisure after I've given her my notice.

As far as getting advice from a riding instructor goes, the YO is a BHS AI who trained at a specialist clinic in equine rehabilitation. But I do know that that is no excuse on my part for allowing him to get into this state....
 
Baileys no 4 is a fab product and if you go for another conditoning feed stick to cubes rather mix. It's mean to be easier for laminitcos to digest!

For added fibre I use Dodson & Horrell Safe & Sound, it's formulated for laminitc prone beasties and is full of extras so no need to feed extra suppliments.

I agree you should move this horse. If I had been paying £60 a week for my horse to look like this I wouldn't just be moving yard, I'd be taking your YO to court!! This is a shocking breach of contract.

The best person to ask whether your horse is laminitc or pre or even prone, IMO is your farrier.

Good luck with him, he looks lovely.
 
Echo all the replies and glad to hear you will be moving.

I've had excellent results from Pink Powder (produced by naf), it's a balancer and especially good for promoting weight gain. Ditch the blue chip for now, get him on a high fibre diet and lots of it, as much hay as he can eat (if haylage up more gradually) and give the pink powder a go. A friend of mine has also had excellenr results from linseed oil, but I've not tried it myself.

Good luck and be sure to post more pics in 4 weeks time, I bet he'll look soooo different
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can i just ask how often you go to see him??

he looks really really bad
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i think u should go on DIY so kno what hay etc he's gettin, ur puttin his rugs on him, (colder night makin sure he's warm etc)
 
First thing is I WOULD NOT under any circumstances give him build up cubes - my TB went nuts when I put him on this!

Have a go at alpha beet in his normal feed.

The boy I've just brought has lost alot of weight over the winter - mainly because he was not rugged enough....Ty keeps the weight on but Oscar is alot lighter and it just fell off him!
 
my thoughts are YOU ba8terds - WHY DON'T YOU FEED MY HORSE!!!!!!!!! -IMO
You need a vet out NOW!!!!!!! and have worm count and blood test DONE PDQ and send bill to old YO to pay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! report them if BHS registered

BUT I'M GOING TO SAY WHY DIDN'T YOU INSIST YOUR HORSE GOT MORE FOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and more rugs and DIDN'T YOU see change in his condition - note muscle wastage on bottom and neck line!!!!!!!!!!!

Does your horse have an underlying problem, has it been on box rest??? His he a fissey eatter??? What work has horse been doing???????????

I'm sorry BUT THIS IS A VERY SHOCKING IMAGE TO ME and it's taken 5 months to HAPPEN- i'm sorry to say BUT WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
To be fair to this poor girl who didn't put this post up to get abuse, but advice, you don't see the weight come off or go on when you see the animal everyday as opposed to two photos of before and after.

She has asked us here for advice about how to put this right and certain people have attacked her for doing it. This is wrong.

Ok, maybe she could have done more but she did think she was taking advice from an expert, her YO and she did ask for the horse to be fed more.

As regards feeding, I wouldn't be weighing his hay, just give him plenty. and then more.

Concentrates are a very personal thing and you'll have got the gist that some people prefer one brand to another. Baileys no 4, contrary to popular belief is non heating and won't blow his mind.

All the feed companies have helplines, they want you to use their products.

If in doubt go to a feed supplier and ask them. If they've been selling feed for years they know what works.

NAF Pink Powder is a good way of ensuring your horse is digesting what you're feeding him.

Remember it is just as bad to feed too much as too little.

I wish you luck with your horse.
 
First thing is I WOULD NOT under any circumstances give him build up cubes - my TB went nuts when I put him on this!

Have a go at alpha beet in his normal feed.

The boy I've just brought has lost alot of weight over the winter - mainly because he was not rugged enough....Ty keeps the weight on but Oscar is alot lighter and it just fell off him!

Well my TB didn't go nuts !!! Sounds like it was something else with your gelding. On the bag it states build up cubes being slow release energy, low starch, high in digestible fibre and tailored for building top line and condition. It also says "formulated for horses that need to gain condition in a controlled way to avoid nutrient overload and changes in temperament which can occur when feed is increased..... helps horses gain weight whilst avoiding excitability"

So I think your comments are seen are a total over-reaction !

Oh and I'd like to know how you tell a horse has lost weight exactly? Unless you witnessed the horse not being rugged enough over the winter, is that why you bought him as his owner wasn't looking after him properly ?? (to the previous poster).

Also Im sure the person who started off this post wasnt asking for a telling off !! I see my horse everyday but my friend tends to notice overall changes from week to week better than I do. Also I think everyone who is so critical should remember how much a horse can drop literally overnight or a few nights, the sort of weight that can take weeks to put back on !
 
My tb looked like that he weighed 360 kg now he weighs a healthy 510kg.I also used 5 day treatment of panacur as he had bots.I fed him dodson and horrell build up alpha oil and sugar beet.I have since changed to top spec balancer and cool cubes as they have high protein and fibre content with no cereal.The top spec balancer has a hoof supplement included so I dont have to buy a extra supplement.Most Tbs have poor feet so the balancer would be great for condition his coat and his feet.I like to feed haylage but I find this makes mine too fizzy unless he is in hard work .I have to agree with everyones elses comments but hopefully you will both come out of this ok good luck
 
well said rosie...agree with everything, if he was mine i would feed addlib hay/haylage, good old pink powder, alfa a oil, speedibeet, bailey's no4 cubs and soya oil....

and move yards!!
 
[ QUOTE ]
My tb looked like that he weighed 360 kg now he weighs a healthy 510kg.I also used 5 day treatment of panacur as he had bots.I fed him dodson and horrell build up alpha oil and sugar beet.I have since changed to top spec balancer and cool cubes as they have high protein and fibre content with no cereal.The top spec balancer has a hoof supplement included so I dont have to buy a extra supplement.Most Tbs have poor feet so the balancer would be great for condition his coat and his feet.I like to feed haylage but I find this makes mine too fizzy unless he is in hard work .I have to agree with everyones elses comments but hopefully you will both come out of this ok good luck

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better buy some eqvalan, as panacur equine guard doesn't treat bots......or do you mean encysted small redworm??
 
I would like to add that it may be a good idea to have chiro/physio look at your horse as in both photos he is standing with hind legs right under. You will need referal from your vet first.

Good luck and don't beat yourself up.
 
Its ok I treated him with eqvalan the next time he was due and he is on a proper worming programme now(that was nearly 3 years ago).I was told they were bots and he was my first horse so maybe I was told the wrong name or remembered incorrectly.They were red so you are probably right .lol
 
i think there is some really harsh comments on here, to the poor girl she has admitted to being a novice and tryed her best putting him on full livery cause she thought someone would be more experienced than her looking after him till she new what she was doing, she prob didnt see the drematic change seeing him everyday till she put the two pictures together.

At least u have come on here when u did and got advice instead of listening to the YO who obviously doesnt have a clue what they are doing and obviously not feeding your horse if it was me i would be reporting them for neglect as he was on full loan.
Defo get him off that yard there are plenty of yard out there with experienced people that will help u dont be affraid to ask and i would love too see a pic of him on here in a few weeks when u have put some food into that poor little boy.
Good luck
oh and get a worm count done hun
 
Wow. I've only just seen this.

My advice to you is to spend sometime really getting to know your horse when he is on the new yard. As everyone else has said he obviously needs to be wormed, have a vet check, be well rugged and fed.
Don't worry whether you have bought a 'thick' rug, layering of rugs keeps them nice and warm as it traps the air inbetween. I have a horse that drops weight if he is cold no matter how much you feed. Especially now, you should make sure yours is toasty warm all the time as he has no fat on his body to keep himself warm.
Give him as much hay or haylage as he can eat, if necessary stuff 2 big haynets and make sure he has enough so that in the morning there is still some left - that way you know he's nice and full.

I pay £120 a week roughly for full livery so again, if anyone offers it cheaply then it would make me wonder what kind of quality I would be getting.

Above all else, even if you are a novice owner, go with your instincts. Common sense goes a long way.
Good luck with moving him and nursing him back to full health again.
 
Hi - you already have lots of feeding advice. My advice is, when you go to look at new yards:

Look at the other horses condition.
Are they happy in the yard and fields?
Is there plenty of good grazing and turnout for your horse? You will be surprised what some good grass will do for him.

Good luck with it. Don't be afraid to come on here for more advice, or give us an update. Most people on here are friendly and will be more than pleased to give you help, support and advice.
 
He is VERY underweight...

No wonder you're worried! Hope things start getting better soon for both your sakes!


Tough situation you're in.

Things I would do if I were you (feel free to ignore but have a think about them) -

DON'T go on a schooling/fitness programme as recommended by your YO. Your horse's body has eaten all his muscle to try & give him energy in the winter.

Get the vet out & do worm counts & blood tests as he's looking like a neglect case just now - it's serious, even for a nervy TB.

Intellegent horses need to be happy. Spend more time with him grooming/groundwork/just hanging out together or something like that so he feels more secure & find him some friends to be turned out with. This is the single most important thing i've found to keep weight on my TB type Westfalian.

Maybe you're over-rugging if he's always warm? Is he too warm? Is he sweating & losing condition? Just a thought. As with feeding, too much is as bad as too little.

Overhaul your feeding regime - as much hay & haylage as he can eat & feeds full of beet pulp & chaff with some oil-rich feed rather than high-energy feeds like pasture mix. BUT do this VERY GRADUALLY as changing feeds can do much more harm than good.

You need to find a better livery yard / one that understands what he needs to a greater extent. Moving will be stressful for him so really do your research before moving him.

Don't clip him again. TBs have thin coats naturally, his belly will always be exposed to a cold draught, even when rugged. Ride in an exercise rug.

Didn't realise there were two more pages hence the repitition in what i've said...

I'm really worried for both of you, hope things get better & good luck. Seems like you've both been unfairly treated.
 
Sorry you have to learn the hard way...people who seem to be experienced don't always do the best job...attitude comes in to account too.
Ditto many of the comments/advice above.
Your horse needs food, warmth - natural requirements which we are responsible to provide as an owner....and tlc.
Tb's react quite quickly if not managed right ie. drop weight.
I would contact some of the feed companies to find what is the general concensus on what to feed your horse in line with his lifestyle/requirements/present condition. Get a good overall view of the options you have to get some nutrients and weight back on him.
My tb mare gets 3 feeds a day, correctly weighed out haylage which is monitored in case she needs more. She has quite a big barrel of a rib cage and can easily show ribs if not fed enough. Despite her not in work anymore and retired she still needs good food and not to be scrimped on...
I really hope you get this sorted and move yards for a start if this is what they think a tb should look like as a healthy horse.
Good luck and I wish your boy all the best.
 
Am new to this forum so havw only just seen your post.....and I have to say I am appalled how that yard can let ur horse get like that...I am not only the owner of an ex racer,who is also a skinny minny!!,but I am a BHSII and was a Yard Manager of a large equestrian centre until recently and the so called YO of ur yard should be ashamed of herself/himself....that is bordering on neglect and u need to have very strong words with them.As for feeding i give my boy 3 scoops of Baileys No 4,scoop of Alfa A oil and SBeet with some vegetable oil in 2 feeds a day,hes also on ads lib hay,and this seems to keep his weight and condition on well.
Please have words with the YO and if possible i would be looking for a new yard,,,,,Good Luck!
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Dear All

Have only just been back to check the forum and my pm's as I've been crazy busy moving my boy to another yard. After everything that had been said on here I couldn't live with him being in my YO's care for another hour. I've found him a wonderful yard with a very understanding YO whose policy is ad lib haylage, I get to decide what to feed him and when and some lovely paddocks. He has moved with his "brother" (my sister's horse) and in my opinion (but this may be wishful thinking!) looks happier and healthier already!!

Tried to have it out with the YO but she was 100% definite and would not be convinced AT ALL that he was underweight. Her view was that he needed working and it was my fault he looked like that because I hadn't been schooling him enough??!! Anyway, after a few choice words I left her with a print out of the two forums (I've posted on stable yard and picture gallery) for her to read at her leisure. Seriously considering reporting her as I've now heard that she may not be an AI. Either way I think the BHS should be made aware.

Had the vet out yesterday afternoon who gave him a once over. She doesn't think from the exam that there is any underlying problem but blood and poo samples are going to be taken to make sure. Then he's getting wormed with a 5 day panacur. His teeth were rasped too.

The main concern is his front feet which are very spongy and sore. Hence the stance on the second picture. Incidently the YO told me that his abcess had healed and he needed his shoes back on even though he was flinching when his front feet were picked out. He is being xrayed on thurs to check out his pedal bone as the vet suspects traumatic laminitis (which she has assured me is treatable so not to panic!). The last YO told me a load of rubbish (as suspected) about the spongy soles being a pre-cursor to laminitis - the vet never said this. Seems the YO was just trying to scare me into staying as she said I would kill him within months with over-feeding as he had laminitis - nice!!

He is now on 3 small feeds a day on the vets advice(1/2 scoop build up cubes/1/2 scoop pasture mix (as this is what he's used to) plus chop and sugar beet. Plus a nice paddock to graze in and as much haylage as he can eat. At last!!

Left him at 8.30 last nice happy, warm and munching!!

Thank you to everyone on here for giving me the courage of my convictions to get him out of there. I have had loads of lovely PM's and I will reply to you all I promise!!

Thanks again. x
 
flying_tackle, that's great to hear, well done for moving him so fast to what sounds like a great place.
if your former YO claims to be an AI and isn't, i'd let the BHS know. what area was this in, btw?
if the YO saw both pics that you posted on here, and was still adamant that the horse was okay and it was your fault for not working him, then she knows NOTHING about horses and should not be in charge of them. disgusting.
very best of luck with your lad at the new yard.
 
Just wanted to say thank you for the lovely update. Do keep us posted on his progress. I think it's shocking that a relative novice owner's trust has been completely taken advantage of by someone who is in a position of authority. I really do think you should report it. Good on you for getting the horse out of there, hopefully he'll soon start to fill out and can put the last few months behind both of you.

And remember in future trust your instincts
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Good luck xx
 
flying_tackle, the post you have made this morning made me smile so much. You have absolutely done the right thing and it is so nice to hear that the forum has helped you to gain confidence in your own judgements.

Good luck and please post updates to let us know how you are both getting on in the future
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Hi everybody Flying_Tackle is my sister the other horse she is referring to is mine. I've got to say i'm so proud of her of her actions yesterday. I have been worried for some time about the weight of both our horses and things eventually came to a head last week. Luckily my horse has not lost as much weight as hers but he is still underweight for what he should be. Again, I was told time and time again there is no problem !! We are both very easy going people and for this to happen is not nice for either of us. I'm off up to the yard this lunchtime to check on them both and give them their dinner feeds so I will take my camera and post some pictures of their new home and them looking happy !

Just to add as well - thanks everyone on this forum who replied. I said to Gemma to post details of her horses and pictures and get peoples opinions. So thanks everyone who replied with their genuine concerns.
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I have just read the update, and it has brought happy tears to my eyes. Congratulations.
Things now can only improve.

lots of updates please.

<<<<<<<<<<<< hugs>>>>>>>>>> to all
 
Flying_Tackle

Thank you for update and well done for removing your horse from that yard -

IF THE YO IS ADVERTISING HERSELF AS BHS AI AND IS NOT - REPORT HER TO BHS and sent images and i'm sure'll they will be very interested in this welfare

and i've NEVER HEARD SUCH RUBBISH ABOUT pre-cursor to laminitis........................ they have to EAT!!!! grass and clearly WAS NOT happening

MOVING ON

As for you and your horse ENJOY now, plug for vet for as much info as possible, get a good farrier as he'll know more about feet -IMO- TB do have flat cr*88y feet it's breed type, so ask your farrier what to do....

With horses you need good farrier - no foot no horse - , good vets practise and approved BHS yard -as your a novice horse owner.

and read read and read as much as you can............ and always pop on here to ask for advise and someone will always have the answer..........

PSsssssss next time follow your gut -you were RIGHT but just 'bullied by a outragious missed guided OLD YO'................ BUT WELL DONE FOR OWNING UP AND MOVING ON

can we see photo soon of improvement as it will not take long - wishing you all the best
 
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Flying_tackle it is brilliant that you have managed to get your horse moved so quickly. Your ex YO sounds like a nightmare and should not have horses in her care- sorry to sound harsh and I suspect you can see it now but your poor horse looks like a welfare case BUT he's going to come on in leaps and bounds so you were right to take action and move him. He will LOVE you for it and I bet you really can see a glint in his eye again
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Please never feel like any question is too trivial to ask- plenty people will have asked it before on here and nearly everyone will be as supportive and helpful as they can be
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Good luck getting him back to full health and getting back on board.
Looking forward to seeing his improvement
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QR.

Well done Flying Tackle. Really look forward to the updates of your lad - and wish you all the very best with him.

Onwards and upwards!
 
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