TB on grass livery with hay?

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ApplePie

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Hi

I have the opportunity to move my TB to grass livery, which I have always wanted to do. I purposely kept him in light rugs, so he is wooley now, and at a good weight.

I'd always envisaged him being on ad-lib haylage in the field, through the winter, but the yard owner will only put hay out. This is because the others in the field are lami-prone.

I know hay is more volumous than haylage per kg, but at the moment he isn't getting any grass in the day (because the fields are poor), and is having a haylage net in his stable at night, plus two hard feeds.

If he lived out, he would be munching hay all day AND all night, so I'm thinking he would probably be having about the same or more kg for kg as is in his haylage net.

I've seen that some of you have TB's living out, so was looking for some advice as to whether ad-lib hay might work?

Thank you! :)
 
amymay said:
Sorry, your post is not clear.

At the new yard will he have access to ad lib hay - or only armfuls am and pm?
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Ad lib hay instead of haylage as I read it?

OP my TB is fully clipped and living out, on hay only and she is looking really well on it :)
 
Broke_But_Happy said:
Ad lib hay instead of haylage as I read it?

OP my TB is fully clipped and living out, on hay only and she is looking really well on it :)
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Ah, got you - thanks.

Providing it is ad lib, and you're feeding routine doesn't change then I'm sure he'll be fine. You'll have to monitor it obviously.
 
My TB does not do well on hay instead of haylage, but each horse is an individual and yours may well be fine. I'd just be prepared to up the hard feed if necessary.
 
Provided there is natural shelter in the field as well as him wearing appropriate rugs then with ad lib fibre he should be fine.
 
I’ve just moved my tb to out 24/7, no idea how it is going to go but they’ll get hay in the morning and afternoon, when he was stabled he was out for 6-8 hours with no grass and in the rest of the time, firstly with hay then moved to haylage as I got fed up with soaking the hay, I only give him a handful of chaff hard feed, his weight is cracking at the moment, bordering on ‘well’. There is grass at the new yard and if he drops weight I plan to start feeding him Copra Meal as it’s very high in oil and appears to be quite non-heating. Ideally I would feed big bale haylage in the field but I concede that living with a cob and a pony this isn’t going to be a good idea! As he’s close to home if needed I can having him on up to 4 meals a day if we have weight loss issues.
 
Thanks all for your replies!

Something else that might help with my decision is as to the volume of hay compared to haylage. I've no idea how much hay weighs!

For example, would two haynets weigh the same as one haylage net (that were equally full)? If so, then this should work out, as he will be eating double the volume at the new yard, but the same weight.

I'm using this as a guide because the MJ/Kg of the hay and haylage at my current yard is more or less the same (the Y/O has analysis done on a regular basis), and they supply to the hay to the grass livery place.

I just don't know how much hay, by volume, he would need to eat, to get the same calories.

I would fill a net up and weigh the hay, but I don't think the Y/O would appreciate me filling a net, only to tip it out again afterwards. :D
 
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If its good hay ad lib, and you have a variety of rugs to suit different weather conditions, then I would have thought he should be fine. Will you still be feeding him?

IF he is not fine, then look on the bright side, at least you tried - and spring with fresh grass is just around the corner so he should pick up quite quickly.
 
I just don't know how much hay, by volume, he would need to eat, to get the same calories.
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You can't possibly judge it if he's turned out with other horses. All you need to worry about is that the hay is adlib, and that he has access to it.

Surely they don't feed haynets, don't they put round bales out or similar??
 
amymay said:
You can't possibly judge it if he's turned out with other horses. All you need to worry about is that the hay is adlib, and that he has access to it.

Surely they don't feed haynets, don't they put round bales out or similar??
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This ^^

I have many TBs living out 24/7. They are on adlib hay (quality round bales) and in good rugs with free access to a bedded down barn for shelter (which they rarely use). They are all in very good condition and it suits them and their mentality to live out.
 
No, he isn't going to be turned out with nets, but, knowing how the volume of hay and haylage compares will help my decision.

For example, I know he eats the same volume of haylage in his stable during the day as he does at night, so in theory, if he was kept in 24 hours he would get through 2 nets worth of haylage (in a haybar).

He isn't usually kept in, so eats only one net of haylage.

If he were to live out with ad-lib hay, its likely he would eat the same volume as he does now, i.e. two nets worth.

If I know how the volume compares between the two forages it will give me a rough guide as to how much he might eat by kg.

I know it's not exact, but it would give me a starting point. If, for example, hay is three times the volume of haylage, then that would perhaps suggest he wouldn't be eating enough to replace the haylage net he currently has at night.

I've googled it and can't find the answer, so if anyone does know, please let me know.

Thank you :-)
 
If he were to live out with ad-lib hay, its likely he would eat the same volume as he does now, i.e. two nets worth.
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No, he'll eat more.

But, as I said earlier, it's irrelevant. As long as hay is constantly available then all you need to worry about is that he has access to it - and being out 24/7 suits him.
 
amymay said:
No, he'll eat more.

But, as I said earlier, it's irrelevant. As long as hay is constantly available then all you need to worry about is that he has access to it - and being out 24/7 suits him.
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I don't think anyone can say with certainty whether he will eat more, less, or the same.

Knowing my horse as I do, I think it's likely to be about the same, or a little less, given how much he guzzles his haylage. I'm not sure he'd be as eager with hay.

You are entitled to your opinion as to the relevancy of my question, however, just because you don't see the relevancy, doesn't make it irrelavant.

If anyone can help, I would be grateful.

Thank you!
 
I must confess I am a little confused :o will he be out with 2 lami prone ponies? If so then he is unlikely to have access to ad lib hay because they certainly won't. Or have I got it all confuddled :o
 
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5horses2dogsandacat said:
Thanks for the post OP, looking at turning my chap out 24/7, he semi lives out at the min is always rugged to the eye balls and has pretty much adlib hay and plenty of hard feed.

He's not the best of doers but seems fine with the semi out lifestyle, its just the final step getting him out 24/7 that worries me a little :/ Xx
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Hi - when you say he semi-lives out, what routine does he have?

My first horse (another TB) lived out, and he also wasn't the best of doers. He had ad-lib haylage, and a hard feed a day.

He completely chilled out within a week, and over time his joints and feet improved too. It was definitely a good move!

I've had my current horse for 7 years, and not found anywhere suitable to live out until now. There really isn't a lot in the area that have enough grazing, and that rest their fields, and provide ad-lib hay/lage. Let alone that have a menage!

What is it that worries you about making the step to 24/7? Is it his condition, or that he may be cold or unhappy in some way?
 
RebelRebel said:
I must confess I am a little confused :o will he be out with 2 lami prone ponies? If so then he is unlikely to have access to ad lib hay because they certainly won't. Or have I got it all confuddled :o
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Yes he will have ad-lib hay, if I move him. The yard owner said he couldn't have ad-lib haylage because of fears over laminitis in respect of the other two horses, but would be able to have ad-lib hay.

I assumed they were lami-prone, but I didn't probe any further. Maybe it's just the owner's fears about haylage? I know a few people who wouldn't feed it.
 
ApplePie said:
I just don't know how much hay, by volume, he would need to eat, to get the same calories.
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There's two things going on here, you're asking about volume and weight so very different measurements. This is a rough weight guide but for example if he was getting 18lbs of hay that would be the equivalent to around 28lbs of haylage. The volume of hay versus haylage should be about the same as haylage is composed of a higher water content. However this is based on a stabled or individual living arrangement and can't be compared to a field situation with other horses sharing. Most horses I know when first turned out 24/7 eat a greater amount intially but then settle down to pacing themselves a bit more. Overall I'd say your horse will eat slightly more (of any fibrous substance; hay or haylage) if kept out 24/7 than he would if brought in overnight.
 
Spring Feather said:
There's two things going on here, you're asking about volume and weight so very different measurements. This is a rough weight guide but for example if he was getting 18lbs of hay that would be the equivalent to around 28lbs of haylage. The volume of hay versus haylage should be about the same as haylage is composed of a higher water content. However this is based on a stabled or individual living arrangement and can't be compared to a field situation with other horses sharing. Most horses I know when first turned out 24/7 eat a greater amount intially but then settle down to pacing themselves a bit more. Overall I'd say your horse will eat slightly more (of any fibrous substance; hay or haylage) if kept out 24/7 than he would if brought in overnight.
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I'm aware that weight and volume are different measurements. :D

My question is as to volume kg for kg; but I have gone into more detail on a previous post.

To summarise:

The calories in the hay and the haylage at my current yard (who supplies my potentially new yard) are the same kg for kg, so I'm just trying to see as a guide, what the difference in volume is.

Hay is lighter than haylage, and so a full net of hay might weigh 1/2 as much as a net of haylage, but I don't know what the actual comparison is.

If hay is around double volume of haylage kg for kg, then I think he'd be ok on 24 hour ad-lib hay, as opposed to his one haylage net at night.

However, if hay is 3 or 4 times the volume of haylage kg for kg, then I don't think he will get enough calories.

It's just a guide though, I know it isn't exact.

I'm starting to wish I'd never asked now! :D
 
My tb is out in a field with no grass. I can't put a bale out because we have sheep in the field (that are not mine!). Instead he gets a big bag full of haylage twice a day and D&H leisure mix twice a day. I am quite lucky because he can get fat on fresh air!
He gets haylage because hay is too dry for him and he gets a cough :( , I don't really have the facilities to soak hay either. He is a bit of an oddball too - in his previous homes (race yards) he only ever got haylage so he turns his nose up at hay.
 
TBH I think you are getting yourself a little confused about things and (in a nice way) turning it into a bit of a drama.

If the nutritional content is the same (as you have stated) then you would technically just need to feed the same volume of hay as you do haylage. Now the equivalent weight of that haylage would be higher, but the bulk of that extra weight would be the water content.

So as long as your horse has a sufficient amount of hay (and ad lib obviously means they never go without) then you will meet his fibre intake requirements for certain.

If you find yourself needing extra calories (and there is nothing from what you have written that would suggest you would) then you can just up the hard feed calorie content, by adding oil or whatever.

So in short - stop over analysing, and move your horse to the new yard!!!
 
ApplePie said:
You are entitled to your opinion as to the relevancy of my question, however, just because you don't see the relevancy, doesn't make it irrelavant.
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I only think it's irrelevant because the important question to ask is will he have ad lib access to hay? If the answer is yes, then that is all that matters.

Of course it would be interesting to know if he ate more or less - but under these circumstances it really doesn't matter.
 
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