TB people - how does this pedigree look?

Wow, what a pedigree. Helen Street is a fab mare. The only bit the jumps out at me temperament wise is Pennekamp. I personally have never got on with them! He's had a long break between the last two races which would indicate some sort of problem he suffered and maybe he was not fully cured so refused to race. His last couple of runs don't read great either but then he may not have enjoyed running over hurdles as his earlier runs don't read bad from an attitude point of view. 13 runs is not excessive for a horse of his age that has run under both rules.
 
Might be fragile. Too much Native Dancer through Mr. Prospector and Natalma, and both are rather infamous in North America for less than longlasting descendants. In fact, they are likely the reason that North American TBs have had their numbers of starts in racing reduced by more than half in 30 years. Heavy bodies, light bone, wonky legs are epidemic in those lines. Fast, precocious, but fragile.
 
Very good!!!!!!!!!! Sire was ace sired plenty of high class horses, Street Cry won Dubai World Cup now top class sire, Sharmadal Top class horse for Mark Jonhson and Godolphin won french guineas and french Derby, now very good sire (correct me if I'm wrong) Was he not champion first season sire with his first crop?????

Top Class......
 
Know nothing about the breeding side but he hasn't done badly racing has he? Mine flat raced in Hong Kong and then hurdled here, was a bag of bones when I got him and has been the most trainable horse I've ever worked with (and there have been a few!). Don't know what you're hoping to do with him?
 
Bit of everything to behonest :) Just interested in the pedigree side of things as I have had three other ex racers and have gradually discovered that they have all been fairly typical of their sires and dam traits :D not always in a good way so thought I would do a bit of asking this time (trying to be sensible - not a very common occurence :P )
 
I'm in North America. Before you all fall all over yourselves over Mr. Prospector and Native Dancer/Northern Dancer, I suggest you read the two articles from 1995 to which I am linking.

By John Sparkman, who is the bloodstock editor of The TB Times and author of many books on TB, breeding and history in North America. His most recent book is Matriarchs, a study of some of the bluest of Blue Hen mares in North American racing.

The file is over 20 megs, so if you are on dial-up, it's better to download it in the middle of the night. With broadband, you are lucky dogs.

http://www.opencomputing.ca/ormonde/...a legacy.pdf

There is a first part as well, which sets up this part on genetics which is about changes in the North American TB industry generally and by decades. It's over 17 megs.
http://www.opencomputing.ca/ormonde/...y pieces.pdf

You should also read this by a well respected TB journalist and consultant named Frank Mitchell.
http://fmitchell07.wordpress.com/2010/07/30/native-dancer-was-the-way-of-the-future/

We've been living with the results of Northern Dancer/Native Dancer and Mr. P crosses for over 30 years in North America. We KNOW what can happen.

For mature horses, the legs and feet are critical. And you can't guarantee good legs and feet from a horse with lots of the NDs and Mr. P. Anyone who breeds for sport to such horses is, in my opinion, taking an unjustifiable risk. And, BTW, I'm speaking from personal experience as well as from research, reading and looking at horses.

On the other hand, if the horse is already grown and breeding or raising a foal isn't in the stars, just look at the horse in front of you and ignore the pedigree.
 
vineyridge said:
Might be fragile. Too much Native Dancer through Mr. Prospector and Natalma, and both are rather infamous in North America for less than longlasting descendants. In fact, they are likely the reason that North American TBs have had their numbers of starts in racing reduced by more than half in 30 years. Heavy bodies, light bone, wonky legs are epidemic in those lines. Fast, precocious, but fragile.
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Ive got a grandson of mr p, and yes hes got bad feet and one slightly wonky back leg. Not obs noticeable and it doesnt seem to affect him. I must say though temp wise hes very smart, learns fast and is an utter angel in all ways. He is rather heavy in the body for a tb, but for me thats a good thing, his legs are bout right not to light.
 
I used to own a horse out of Helen Street and my advice would be to be careful if considering this horse. I wish I had done, anyway ......
 
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