TB stallions with super strong back ends

popsdosh said:
For what its worth that was what surprised me in the flesh as out of all the stallions there he looked by far the most immature! Particularly in depth of chest and spring to the rib. Springs, if he was mine and you are serious about marketing him you need to reevaluate where your aiming and maybe listen to some breeders looking to breed event horses . To be honest personally with TB mares I am looking towards good SJ or dressage stallions with some blood still in their pedigree . There were several nice candidates yesterday as there was some lovely bred european young stallions ,I was so pleased I went as I went expecting to use Jaguar mail and actually realised he wouldnt suit my mares . I am extremely saddened to say I did not see one British bred stallion that got me half interested.
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interesting you should say that ref jaguar mail. I had convinced myself on paper that I would use him on one of my mares ( a couple of years ago ) Went to see him in the flesh and couldn't have been more wrong. I was gutted ! I had 2 mares at the time, he wouldn't have suited either. I ended up going back to a stallion used before. Sadly she didn't get in foal again. Just goes to show the importance of meeting /seeing the stallions in the flesh.

I didn't go to the stallion show this time, who was the stand out for you this year ?
 
Asha said:
interesting you should say that ref jaguar mail. I had convinced myself on paper that I would use him on one of my mares ( a couple of years ago ) Went to see him in the flesh and couldn't have been more wrong. I was gutted ! I had 2 mares at the time, he wouldn't have suited either. I ended up going back to a stallion used before. Sadly she didn't get in foal again. Just goes to show the importance of meeting /seeing the stallions in the flesh.

I didn't go to the stallion show this time, who was the stand out for you this year ?
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Nic Nac Quality he came over from Belgium(that morning) ,I think he will go a long way which has given him the kiss of death.Details on Elitestallions website. By Kannan out of a Clinton mare whose full sister is jumping grand prix in the states. He had lovely movement as well only a four yo closely followed by Sir Shutterfly. I am looking for eventers but prefer to find a nice jumping stallion with good movement to cover all bases rather than use stallions that event already as there onto full TB mares of NH breeding.
 
Asha said:
interesting you should say that ref jaguar mail. I had convinced myself on paper that I would use him on one of my mares ( a couple of years ago ) Went to see him in the flesh and couldn't have been more wrong. I was gutted ! I had 2 mares at the time, he wouldn't have suited either. I ended up going back to a stallion used before. Sadly she didn't get in foal again. Just goes to show the importance of meeting /seeing the stallions in the flesh.

I didn't go to the stallion show this time, who was the stand out for you this year ?
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I would love to br brave enough to use JM because I love what he produces but can't see him ever suiting my mares! He doesn't throw to his own type, if that helps, but they all look really straightforwards bold rides xc and are certainly athletic.
Exclusive is a very interesting eventing stallion for a TB mare, Future Gravitas doesn't quite do it for me but I can't really put my finger on why. I liked some of the young jumpers- Nic Nac Quality is a really serious horse but hardly any blood for eventing, I really liked the NPS stallions, my favourite being the Plot Blue 4yr old who I think would get eventers because he is rideable and very scopey but smooth over a fence. I used Escape Z on my mare last year and am delighted as he is a proper turbo charged little jumper with flawless technique and huge scope whilst staying rideable and adjustable
 
TheMule said:
I would love to br brave enough to use JM because I love what he produces but can't see him ever suiting my mares! He doesn't throw to his own type, if that helps, but they all look really straightforwards bold rides xc and are certainly athletic.
Exclusive is a very interesting eventing stallion for a TB mare, Future Gravitas doesn't quite do it for me but I can't really put my finger on why. I liked some of the young jumpers- Nic Nac Quality is a really serious horse but hardly any blood for eventing, I really liked the NPS stallions, my favourite being the Plot Blue 4yr old who I think would get eventers because he is rideable and very scopey but smooth over a fence. I used Escape Z on my mare last year and am delighted as he is a proper turbo charged little jumper with flawless technique and huge scope whilst staying rideable and adjustable
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I've just looked up Nic Nac, he looks very exciting on paper, what a mix Kannan, Clinton and Heartbreaker !

Also Escape looks a great type too, and seems to be getting good results in the ring too. These two almost makes me sad ive given up breeding. Good luck with yours
 
Clodagh said:
Springs Spirit gets suggested for every mare on here, like whippets in AAD!
My pennies worth is an ex forum member on here used Kings Composer and got a lovely horse. I don't actually know if he is still alive!
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A little rude here are we not?

We only respond to suitable matches and the reason why he's suggested more that others is because the others are not bothering! but there is no reason why not they can not if they just follow the pinned post from Sticky in the acceptable use of the breeding board under point 4 and 5.

Many Thanks for your support :)
 
Springs said:
A little rude here are we not?

We only respond to suitable matches and the reason why he's suggested more that others is because the others are not bothering! but there is no reason why not they can not if they just follow the pinned post from Sticky in the acceptable use of the breeding board under point 4 and 5.

Many Thanks for your support :)
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Oh quit with the many thanks for your support already! :rolleyes3:

You only respond to suitable matches... really... when someone specifically says they want a TB you think yours being 75% is therefore a suitable match :rolleyes3:.

You can respond as much as you like but there's not need to get smarmy when people point out that you have a financial incentive for your suggestion when you don't point it out yourself.
 
Springs said:
A little rude here are we not?

We only respond to suitable matches and the reason why he's suggested more that others is because the others are not bothering! but there is no reason why not they can not if they just follow the pinned post from Sticky in the acceptable use of the breeding board under point 4 and 5.

Many Thanks for your support :)
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Come on your missing an opportunity ,you know you want TOO!
https://forums-secure.horseandhound.co.uk/showthread.php?742447-SJ-Stallion-recommendations-please

You must be very thick skinned or just delete the 'Skinned'
The more you push your fella to unsuitable mares the more you run the risk of him being pulled to pieces. However it must be awkward as I dont know what mare would suit.

Many thanks :-)
 
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ester said:
Oh quit with the many thanks for your support already! :rolleyes3:

You only respond to suitable matches... really... when someone specifically says they want a TB you think yours being 75% is therefore a suitable match :rolleyes3:.

You can respond as much as you like but there's not need to get smarmy when people point out that you have a financial incentive for your suggestion when you don't point it out yourself.
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Dear Ester,

Thanks for your reply.

I believe the OP was looking for this

"pure TB, back end of mare is weakest so needs excellent conformation especially in hind legs.
Forward, bold type for eventing"

They have now indicated a 7/8 TB as their choice which I which them every luck with. So in my view I believe this is a reasonable match and suitable for contributing to the post as we have everything except the full TB.

Now if I believe he is suitable for a mare then I will recommend again.

Kind Regards and Many Thanks for your support for British Breeding :)
 
I have a very nice 7/8 TB mare by Royal Storm (TB) stands in Ireland, she has an excellent physique inc hind end. Possibly worth a look, his progeny are starting to event
 
Springs said:
I believe the OP was looking for this

"pure TB, back end of mare is weakest so needs excellent conformation especially in hind legs.
Forward, bold type for eventing"

They have now indicated a 7/8 TB as their choice which I which them every luck with. So in my view I believe this is a reasonable match and suitable for contributing to the post as we have everything except the full TB.
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Where to start ? IMO he full fills none of those criteria. I think the biggest mistake is trying to set him up as an event horse as you cannot hide a BE record and to be honest Es on his record and only one proper point on his record does not suggest Forward bold type to me! Your up against horses like Exclusive who are producing the goods at the same age 89 points 20th Le lion and whats more hes cheaper.
Why ? have you not put him forward for grading SHGB I can guess why . I only entertain Stallions put forward at public gradings it puts some transparency into the decisions.
 
popsdosh said:
Come on your missing an opportunity ,you know you want TOO!
https://forums-secure.horseandhound.co.uk/showthread.php?742447-SJ-Stallion-recommendations-please

You must be very thick skinned or just delete the 'Skinned'
The more you push your fella to unsuitable mares the more you run the risk of him being pulled to pieces. However it must be awkward as I dont know what mare would suit.

Many thanks :-)
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Dear Popsdosh,

Many thanks for your thoughts and support. Your quite entitled to your own opinion as to the suitability of the boy for different types of mares as this is a public forum, but luckily for me this is just your own opinion and that of a couple of others who seem to jump, but you are in the minority as there are a large number of people who's opinions differ, quite considerably and so much so they have been returning more than once :)

Many Thanks for supporting British Breeding
 
Springs said:
Dear Popsdosh,

Many thanks for your thoughts and support. Your quite entitled to your own opinion as to the suitability of the boy for different types of mares as this is a public forum, but luckily for me this is just your own opinion and that of a couple of others who seem to jump, but you are in the minority as there are a large number of people who's opinions differ, quite considerably and so much so they have been returning more than once :)

Many Thanks for supporting British Breeding
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I have yet to meet one! :-)
 
popsdosh said:
Where to start ? IMO he full fills none of those criteria. I think the biggest mistake is trying to set him up as an event horse as you cannot hide a BE record and to be honest Es on his record and only one proper point on his record does not suggest Forward bold type to me! Your up against horses like Exclusive who are producing the goods at the same age 89 points 20th Le lion and whats more hes cheaper.
Why ? have you not put him forward for grading SHGB I can guess why . I only entertain Stallions put forward at public gradings it puts some transparency into the decisions.
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Dear POPSDOSH

There is a story behind every horses record and if you take time to investigate the story will unfold, yes he is about a year behind where we would like him to be but that's all part of the story. Exclusive did great in getting to Le Lion, however he had a run out and so finished 43rd, Emily was quite disappointed. Exclusive fees are more expensive and they do not offer a LFG. Exclusives breeding is quite different and so generally a different market or type.

The boy is graded with Breeders Elite and as they have now been accepted in to the WBFSH the covering certificates can be used in any stud book. He does have a full set of X-rays. We have been invited by another top UK stud book to join them but at this time we can not see any benefits to us or our customers.

But its not all about the stallion, its about what they produce and to date they have all been quite good. :)

Many Thanks
 
I will beg to differ on fees as yours carries quite considerable collection and delivery fees over £150 every time. They ship semen from europe substantially less than that.

Indeed I look forward to see if there is any improvement this season that may change my view.
 
I have to say, when I was looking at SS some years ago for a mare, the main thing that put me off was his stud fee alone, which was far too high (IMHO) for a stallion who had done nothing at all let alone the charges on top of that.
 
Maesfen said:
I have to say, when I was looking at SS some years ago for a mare, the main thing that put me off was his stud fee alone, which was far too high (IMHO) for a stallion who had done nothing at all let alone the charges on top of that.
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Completely agree. Springs sire was pretty rubbish - I followed him with interest as at the time my Kings Composer who was almost identical in type and breeding was also under saddle. Thankfully mine was a gelding so couldn't pass on his genes and ended up on the hunting field.

If I was going out to use a British bred, part bred, event horse currently out eventing, with in the region of £600 in my pocket there are much more attractive propositions out there, Britanias Mail and Philanderer to name a couple.
 
A bit off my beaten track, but I have really liked Sula Blue when I used to see him at the stallion parade when it was at Hartpury. I finally have a mare on lease here to use with my boy that I might sensibly use him on in the future. A friend whose judgement I respect has a very nice Native Ruler youngster from a mare that I like but don't love.

What I don't know is whether either would suit the mare belonging to the OP. I always insist that people wanting to use my stallion see him either at home or competing. I prefer to have the opportunity of meeting them too.
 
popsdosh said:
I will beg to differ on fees as yours carries quite considerable collection and delivery fees over £150 every time. They ship semen from europe substantially less than that.

Indeed I look forward to see if there is any improvement this season that may change my view.
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Dear P

I have had a look at the collection/delivery fees and yep with the VAT they would be over £150 by a whopping £2.50. Out of interest I have had a look at other where they are published and these are the second highest but there's only around £10 difference between the leading providers I looked at, which if your worried by £10 you really should reconsider breeding as its a lottery.

The one thing I can say is the collection centre we use works to the highest standards and only ships out the highest quality semen which for the customer is paramount, nothing worse than a mare ready to go and dead or poor quality semen.

I'll talk about deliveries form Europe another time as this is a subject in its own right, especially with the Brexit and the impact of pound to Euro shifting by 20%

Many thanks
 
Springs said:
Dear P

I have had a look at the collection/delivery fees and yep with the VAT they would be over £150 by a whopping £2.50. Out of interest I have had a look at other where they are published and these are the second highest but there's only around £10 difference between the leading providers I looked at, which if your worried by £10 you really should reconsider breeding as its a lottery.

The one thing I can say is the collection centre we use works to the highest standards and only ships out the highest quality semen which for the customer is paramount, nothing worse than a mare ready to go and dead or poor quality semen.

I'll talk about deliveries form Europe another time as this is a subject in its own right, especially with the Brexit and the impact of pound to Euro shifting by 20%

Many thanks
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You will find that mare owners will pay top price for top stallions, why would they want to pay top dollar for a mediocre stallion ? Regardless of your collection centre I would hope your horse is producing the highest quality semen each and every time because if he isn't he should not be standing at stud.
 
AdorableAlice said:
You will find that mare owners will pay top price for top stallions, why would they want to pay top dollar for a mediocre stallion ? Regardless of your collection centre I would hope your horse is producing the highest quality semen each and every time because if he isn't he should not be standing at stud.
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Dear Ali's, yes that's right but good quality seamen can be distoryer by poor unhygienic collection, incorrect processing, wrong type of extender and temperature control. ?

I hope this helps you understand what quality means as getting it wrong wastes money and we don't want that, not good for customers, reputation or the industry.

Many thanks for you valued contribution and always great to talk to a keyboard warrior
 
Can one be called a keyboard warrior when one is as experienced in real life as most of the responders on this thread are?! It is usually a term reserved for people that have no clue unless hidden behind a screen...
 
Springs said:
Dear Ali's, yes that's right but good quality seamen can be distoryer by poor unhygienic collection, incorrect processing, wrong type of extender and temperature control. ?

I hope this helps you understand what quality means as getting it wrong wastes money and we don't want that, not good for customers, reputation or the industry.

Many thanks for you valued contribution and always great to talk to a keyboard warrior
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How effing patronising ,we all understand the breeding industry and are all aware of the reasons for poor quality for somebody who is so keen on this and lectures on the subject its a shame you dont always use the same objectivity all the time .I try not to look on things with rose tinted spectacles. There are also other things that could be considered a waste of money ,however if we get that choice wrong the poor thing we bring into the world has to live with the consequences.
 
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popsdosh said:
How effing patronising ,we all understand the breeding industry and are all aware of the reasons for poor quality for somebody who is so keen on this and lectures on the subject its a shame you dont always use the same objectivity all the time .I try not to look on things with rose tinted spectacles. There are also other things that could be considered a waste of money ,however if we get that choice wrong the poor thing we bring into the world has to live with the consequences.
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Dear P,

This is the first sensible point you have said in some respects.

I do enjoy this forum now its so much fun and passes the dark nights away. all we are missing is Ken!

Many Thanks









Many Thanks
 
ester said:
Can one be called a keyboard warrior when one is as experienced in real life as most of the responders on this thread are?! It is usually a term reserved for people that have no clue unless hidden behind a screen...
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Hi Ester,

I think the definition on a key board warrior is someone who hides behind the keyboard launching attacks on others either hidden by a none descript name or from the security of the internet. It has nothing to with levels of competence, knowledge or how professional you are.

I hope this helps with your under standing of the jargon.
 
Maesfen said:
I have to say, when I was looking at SS some years ago for a mare, the main thing that put me off was his stud fee alone, which was far too high (IMHO) for a stallion who had done nothing at all let alone the charges on top of that.
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Yep some times we raised the fees on S Symp depending on what he was doing and customer demand. We also offered concessions so that could have been an option but its in the past now.

Many Thanks for your comment
 
ihatework said:
Completely agree. Springs sire was pretty rubbish - I followed him with interest as at the time my Kings Composer who was almost identical in type and breeding was also under saddle. Thankfully mine was a gelding so couldn't pass on his genes and ended up on the hunting field.

If I was going out to use a British bred, part bred, event horse currently out eventing, with in the region of £600 in my pocket there are much more attractive propositions out there, Britanias Mail and Philanderer to name a couple.
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Yes your quite right SSymp did do rubbish, this however should not be reflected on the horse but on the approach to his training with a professional rider at the time, but that's a long story. We did geld him but on reflection his limited young stock have been selling for what we consider exceptional prices!

Many Thanks for your support
 
Clodagh said:
Springs Spirit gets suggested for every mare on here, like whippets in AAD!
My pennies worth is an ex forum member on here used Kings Composer and got a lovely horse. I don't actually know if he is still alive!
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FWIW, here is a video I took of Kings Composer some years ago. He throws a lot of show horses, but the one I bred by him wasn't very big (first foal) and looked more of a Show Jumper in his technique. Was also a bit of a lad, although performed well enough under saddle.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iUa0BjKAks
 
Alec Swan said:
It's an entirely pointless exercise considering the stallion to be used, if we don't also consider the mare.

There is no stallion born which will improve upon a rubbish mare. …….. just saying! :D

Alec.

.
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So sorry Alec, but that isn't always the case. My welsh D stallion has thrown super sorts onto some really rubbish conformation mares. Examples below, the first being a bay TB mare with a very low set neck and a club foot. She had two crackers, both got High first Premiums, and are lovely people
Mare.....
katie1_zpsynrtyazb.jpg

Two siblings.....
ferdinand%20broken%20in_zpsa6r2otpg.jpg

20140712_102621_7663_zpsxpwnwrtc.jpg


Second TB mare, upside down neck, v straight hocks (my stallion has these as well), and almost horizontal hind pasterns, although these did improve after she had her first foal. Also a stresshead, and totally failed even to get on the track. Her first foal by my boy got placed at the Badminton Grassroots Championships last year.....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mH_DOQYzRAM&t=198s
 
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