TB with bad feet - any advice any farriers on here?

[Gloria Victous]

I haven't got a attitude, will take my away then.

Lol.

 

[thatsmygirl]

My lad Gloria victous has reverse rotated pedal bones, under run heels, flat footed, lots of flare and contracted frogs. Boots with pads are a must they really are. I had to make sure he's walking heel first to help/start building up that area which in shoes is of the ground and doesn't get any stimulation. The back off the foot is often very sore/weak because of this and it will come in time. My lad can't be shod due to lameness which is what started me off barefoot and I'm really enjoying it and learning so so much. I don't believe any horse should be left sore that's what the boots are for and diet really needs to be changed around 6 weeks before shoes came off or what's what I done. I had a set back after his trim but he's getting there again.
Sorry for spelling I'm rushing on my phone
I always slated barefoot but this horse I have is teaching me so much I actually owe a lot to him

 

[galaxy]

My lad Gloria victous has reverse rotated pedal bones, under run heels, flat footed, lots of flare and contracted frogs. Boots with pads are a must they really are. I had to make sure he's walking heel first to help/start building up that area which in shoes is of the ground and doesn't get any stimulation. The back off the foot is often very sore/weak because of this and it will come in time. My lad can't be shod due to lameness which is what started me off barefoot and I'm really enjoying it and learning so so much. I don't believe any horse should be left sore that's what the boots are for and diet really needs to be changed around 6 weeks before shoes came off or what's what I done. I had a set back after his trim but he's getting there again.
Sorry for spelling I'm rushing on my phone
I always slated barefoot but this horse I have is teaching me so much I actually owe a lot to him

So what diet have you put your boy on?

 

[thatsmygirl]

He's on fast fibre, micro linseed, salt, calmag and equimins advance complete. And at lib hay. I really worried to start with about him lossing weight when I use to feed lots off conditioning feeds but he's actually put weight on which might sound weird but the sugar:starch is kept to a min with this diet and linseed is a fab safe weight gain feed. In fact he's never looked better. People do believe they get what they want out of the grass but they really don't so it's important to give a good vit:min supplement. Sugar can/will weaken feet which includes grass. My lad hasn't had a lame day since the shoes came off but I won't say it's easy as it's not and you have to be so dedicated to doing it but now I can see the growth coming down at a better angle it keeps me going. In boots they should be 100% sound not sore at all and can still be ridden. The trim is also very important and I had to leave my current farrier after a few mistakes but that's things you learn as u go on

 

[tallyho!]

I think those feet need a well earned rest

 

[galaxy]

how much turnout and grass is your boy getting? Do you boot him to even turnout?

ETA I know the barefooters are suggesting taking the shoes off, but serious question.... This horse would be crippled just walking across the yard let alone out to the field and forget riding!! How on earth would it be managed? Boot the whole time?

 

[Regandal]

OP, hope you can help your friend with her horse's feet. It just dawned on me, that after years thinking I have to put shoes on my horse because his feet are bad, that they might be bad because they have shoes on.......if you follow. Not as bad as the OP's, but not good. Off to research stuff.

 

[thatsmygirl]

He's in by day when the sugar levels are higher in the grass but they don't seem to effect him much so I just keep a eye and he's out by night. I only boot him to take him to the field as it's a stoney track and take them off once in the field. He's fine in the field and neally ok on concrete now just gotta watch the tiny bits off gravel as they are a killer. The farrier was against the idea so iv got myself a trimmer who does things totally different to a farrier. His feet have no chips at all now ( in 2 months) all grown out. And I can see the growth coming on his sole already to help thicken it. Lots off pictures u take will be v interesting when u look back through and compair. The hardest bit if I'm honest is other peoples views and not keeping their mouths shut after all when he was trotting sound across the yard nobody said anything but as soon as he had a little set back they all have their say. Annoys me.

 

[thatsmygirl]

You may be surprised, I thought my lad would be crippled but sort the diet, and maybe just go for hinds to start with to help settle the owner a bit. My lad never noticed his hinds off and is only booted in front. The farrier mustn't par the frogs down or touch the sole which was the problem I had. Honestly in boots and 12mm pads he wouldn't be crippled.

 

[tallyho!]

how much turnout and grass is your boy getting? Do you boot him to even turnout?

ETA I know the barefooters are suggesting taking the shoes off, but serious question.... This horse would be crippled just walking across the yard let alone out to the field and forget riding!! How on earth would it be managed? Boot the whole time?

How do you know? Can you tell how thick his soles are?

Long toes low heels are a recipe for more serious pathologies. The hooves as they are, are already pathological and needs intervention be that veterinary, farriery, or barefootery.

It would be a special farrier (certainly not THIS one) who could help this horse. There exists some brilliant farriers who could help if you only looked. Also some brilliant hoofcare specialists - also, if you cared to look.

barefoot does not equal "crippled horse". Quite the opposite IME

 

[Meowy Catkin]

how much turnout and grass is your boy getting? Do you boot him to even turnout?

ETA I know the barefooters are suggesting taking the shoes off, but serious question.... This horse would be crippled just walking across the yard let alone out to the field and forget riding!! How on earth would it be managed? Boot the whole time?

I know this isn't aimed at me, but my mare is out 24/7 on restricted grazing. I use an electric fence to control the amount of land that they are on. I have swapped to molasses free feeds too.

I found that my mare was always sound (unless she had an abscess) on grass and flat tarmac. She is now fine on gravel/small stones too.

 

[galaxy]

How do you know? Can you tell how thick his soles are?

Because when he looses a shoe he is VERY lame. As in too lame to even walk to the field.

 

[galaxy]

I know this isn't aimed at me, but my mare is out 24/7 on restricted grazing. I use an electric fence to control the amount of land that they are on. I have swapped to molasses free feeds too.

I found that my mare was always sound (unless she had an abscess) on grass and flat tarmac. She is now fine on gravel/small stones too.

Thank you, that is very interesting.

Even though this is not my horse (it belongs to a friend and I'm also her instructor) I'm just finding it interesting to hear how other people would deal with this situation.

And don't worry, the OP is going to be changing things.

 

[criso]

I'm not going to tell anyone what to do or that it's easy to rehab and manage the sort of tb that was shod at 18 months and fed a poor diet most of his life but I do object to anyone who says you are stuck with what you have got.

Your horses frogs and heels remind me of how mine used to be.

http://rockleyfarm.blogspot.co.uk/2010/09/what-difference.html
http://rockleyfarm.blogspot.co.uk/2010/04/geneticsreally.html

I have to be careful with his diet, not a sniff of molasses in anything, minerals balanced to his hay/haylage and brewers yeast to keep his gut happy but it can be done, TB feet can improve.

I bought hoof boots for mine to use when he lost a shoe. I haven't actually used them since he's been barefoot though kept them just in case.

 

[Gloria Victous]

You may be surprised, I thought my lad would be crippled but sort the diet, and maybe just go for hinds to start with to help settle the owner a bit. My lad never noticed his hinds off and is only booted in front. The farrier mustn't par the frogs down or touch the sole which was the problem I had. Honestly in boots and 12mm pads he wouldn't be crippled.

Hinds are not really the problem, this owner does not need to be settled. I am more worried about your constant use of the word crippled. I am sorry TMG I shall not be putting my boy through Bare Foot. I have a farrier who shoes mostly racehorses and has an understanding of both barefoot and shod horses, his reccomendation is to stick with the routine I have with my horse, so I shall not be taking your, no doubt, well meaning advice.

 

[thatsmygirl]

If the horse is lame when he loses a shoe galaxy he's still lame when the shoe is put on, the problem is just being covered up for now. But I would suggest as time goes on the owner may find he starts going lame when shod ( wouldn't be surprised) as his feet will be effected to a point that it will show. Like my lad the pedal bones got to a angle where the damage started to show even in shoes. Even my vet said yes take the shoes off to give him a chance else it was a pts job. I must admit I failed first time I took his shoes off because I hadn't learnt enough but after a couple off months research every night I was ready to try again and this time I'm happy with how things are going.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

GV, I don't think that anyone is saying that you must take the shoes off your horse.

 

[tallyho!]

Because when he looses a shoe he is VERY lame. As in too lame to even walk to the field.

Oh bless him. Well, if it's any consolation, mine was a laminitic and was very footy too when his shoes came off.

I decided turnout 24/7 (even though he was a laminitic!) with muzzle was the only way to help.

Of course, being in the field, it was soft and he coped really well. Just left him out for about 2 months. No special care, just out with some mates and his muzzle. It never came off and he did well as body condition goes. He came out sound for his trim and walked back in sound. Left him for another few weeks. This was Aug 2010. I was out walking in hand by November. Hacking by January. Started dressage comps in May and out doing HT's in Oct.

As with all things, it takes time and patience, The hoof has an incredible ability to heal if you let it. You can see it is trying to all the time.

 

[galaxy]

Interesting Tallyho thank you very much!

Touch wood this horse (atm?) is not lame (when shoes are on feet, I realise that). This really was a thread about how to keep shoes on feet.

OP will be on when she can

 

[thatsmygirl]

My lad was also shod by a well known farrier in racing and look where that got him, lame after each shoeing. He's now comfy in boots and walking on concrete.
I use the word crippled as it's in response to galaxy, who used the word not a reply to you.
My lad would still be shod now along with many others but the damage in his feet has got to a level now where shoes had to come off to give him a chance. Hopefully you never find yourself in that position.

 

[thatsmygirl]

That was for ^^^ GV
can't quote on my phone

 

[tallyho!]

Shoes should really be kept on feet that are good enough to shoe to, and I think many many farriers are well aware of this.

Sadly, some just shoe to the feet they have (keeping customers happy) and who can blame them?

There are a few farriers on this forum who would agree with the taliban.

This thread may help clear a few things up

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=513676&highlight=good+shoeing

 

[thatsmygirl]

Well galaxy I wish you the best of luck and his owner I really do x

 

[Gloria Victous]

GV, I don't think that anyone is saying that you must take the shoes off your horse.

I am aware of that, I was discussing barefoot trying to make sense of it .

 

[thatsmygirl]

GV it's taken me months to start to understand barefoot, the hours iv put into it is scary

 

[galaxy]

Well galaxy I wish you the best of luck and his owner I really do x

Thank you, and thanks to everyone else for the input. Very interesting and lots to think about.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

I am aware of that, I was discussing barefoot trying to make sense of it .

It's a very interesting subject. I think that there is a lot of scope for proper scientific research on the subject, particularly the link between shod horses and navicular. Unforunately, I doubt that the funding is there, although I believe that Rockly Farm is documenting their navicular horses progress.

 

[Gloria Victous]

This has been a very interesting and informative thread, although I have questioned and agreed with myself! It has given me food for thought, thank you, all of you.

 

[horse_lover]

Finally I am back on. Thank you to everyone for their comments it has led to very interesting reading and lots to think about. Until Galaxy and I took the pictures this evening I never realised how bad his feet actually were, unfortunately I have no knowledge of feet and do rely on my farrier (I guess in some people eyes that makes me a bad horse owner). I have had the same farrier for years and knew of him from previous shares I had so trusted his work. I have 2 TB's and the other one has no problems with his feet at all. The horse in question has never been lame whilst wearing shoes, but as Galaxy mentioned when he loses a shoe he cannot walk on the slightest bit of uneven ground and even looks uncomfortable in the field.

With regards to changing feed what would you all recommend for those that said to change it? He is well covered so I do not want anything that will put weight on him or make him fizzy.

 

[tallyho!]

unfortunately I have no knowledge of feet and do rely on my farrier (I guess in some people eyes that makes me a bad horse owner).

It would make me a bad owner too!

This is not true!!!!! Here you are asking because you CARE! You care beyond the care you entrust your farrier with as far as feet go.

Such an important little fact that shows just how untrue such a statement is