Teaching a horse not to panic when lead rope is over head

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cosmic389

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My 3yo horse generally ties up ok. But being young he likes to fidget and stick his head between the fence to get to the grass on the other side. If I'm next to him I will stop him or ask him to back up.
If I'm not supervising he has gotten the lead rope over his poll on his way back up and as the pressure is applied due to rope pulled taught around his poll he panics and pulls back until the twine breaks. My current yard doesn't tie ups located higher than the horse so it's not difficult for my horse to put his head down and then get the rope over his head.
I'm worried he will injure himself if he keeps doing it and wondering if there's a way to teach him not to panic, rather just hold still of he finds himself in that position again. Understandably it's scary for him to find himself trapped like that.

Advice greatly appreciated thank you.
 
Not quite the same, but I have that knows if he's grazing in hand and steps on the rope, he has to lift his foot to release the pressure. I have had many that dont know this, and seemed unable to learn. Sadly suspect this is similar. Though the principle is you teach them to give to pressure and not fight it.
 
Afraid I had the same with my thoroughbred. He could be okay for days then all of a sudden get the leadrope over his head (or even felt stuck) and he would pull and pull until something broke and it just wasnt worth the risk anymore. My pony before him could get stuck and would just stand and wait to be saved. I think it just depends on the horse really.
 
Agree with Lucky788, first thing is management, either he is supervised or he is never tied where he can do this. I think you could also do a little bit of training to help him learn that he can lower his head to release poll pressure.

Very carefully and gently in a relaxed situation, since he already has a developed a panic response, give very tiny poll pressure, with your hand maybe, and then release and praise/reward if and when he lowers his head. He might not make the connection himself if he ever gets stuck this way again (which he shouldn't because you need to prevent it as far as possible) but at least you're doing your best to help.
 
If you absolutely have to leave him unsupervised, then could you tie him elsewhere, where there is no grass to temp him, or tie him shorter.

Idolo ties are a good thing I’ve found to help them not panic but you’d have to put the training in for them to be effective.
 
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Lucky788 said:
Could you not ask for some higher tie up points to be added?
Sounds like an accident waiting to happen

If not I wouldn’t leave unattended, have everything out ready when you bring in
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Unfortunately no, we only have outdoor tie ups. I'm careful to either tie him very short. Or long enough that if the rope does end up on his head it won't be tight.

Yes always very aware of what he's doing with his head.

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cmkeventing said:
Afraid I had the same with my thoroughbred. He could be okay for days then all of a sudden get the leadrope over his head (or even felt stuck) and he would pull and pull until something broke and it just wasnt worth the risk anymore. My pony before him could get stuck and would just stand and wait to be saved. I think it just depends on the horse really.
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Yes same, all my previous horses never did this. They all stood till I was able to free them. I'm hoping some training will at least reduce the level of it, however long it takes.
 
smolmaus said:
Agree with Lucky788, first thing is management, either he is supervised or he is never tied where he can do this. I think you could also do a little bit of training to help him learn that he can lower his head to release poll pressure.

Very carefully and gently in a relaxed situation, since he already has a developed a panic response, give very tiny poll pressure, with your hand maybe, and then release and praise/reward if and when he lowers his head. He might not make the connection himself if he ever gets stuck this way again (which he shouldn't because you need to prevent it as far as possible) but at least you're doing your best to help.
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Thank you, I'll definitely give this a shot. Anything to help him.
 
Landcruiser said:
Idolo ties and a long rope. I used to have a pull back panicker, Idolo ties were life changing. Also, rope desensitization.
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I tried the Idolo tie today. He learnt in 5 mins if he kept pulling he would eventually be free. 😑
He's fine with ropes, usually very chill. I think it's the feeling of being trapped he hates.
 
cosmic389 said:
I tried the Idolo tie today. He learnt in 5 mins if he kept pulling he would eventually be free. 😑
He's fine with ropes, usually very chill. I think it's the feeling of being trapped he hates.
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Did you use a long rope? Like 12 or 15 ft? And did you thread the rope in a more resistant way? You can loop the rope over itself to add resistance too
 
Errin Paddywack said:
Tie him short enough not to be able to put his head down far enough to get the rope over his head.
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This, altho seen your photo (he looks sweet!) and I’d be more worried that any horse panicking back on that fence has a fair chance of pulling the timber right off, smacking or staking himself with it - pandemonium.
Tethering to gates or fences isn’t the safest, either needs to give fairly quickly, or not at all (which is one way dealers teach them: the horse is ‘swung’, actively provoked to try but unsuccessfully break away, but it’s not pretty)
 
cosmic389 said:
Unfortunately no, we only have outdoor tie ups. I'm careful to either tie him very short. Or long enough that if the rope does end up on his head it won't be tight.

Yes always very aware of what he's doing with his head.

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Just tie him through the top part of the string, not the bottom part? It looks loose enough. Or add another knot part way down to make the string sorter. Or add your own string!
 
I know there are a host of quick release ties you can get (as others have said above), I've never used them so I'm not sure how easy they are to release from.

I always tie up to baler twine, but in recent years have noticed it's significantly thicker than it used to be. So I always thin it out into two or three strands per original strand. This means it isn't so thin it breaks with the slightest tug, but does break very easily should they pull back (and mean it) for any reason. Worth a try? Might reduce the inclination to panic if he can free himself without too much stress.
 
Exasperated said:
This, altho seen your photo (he looks sweet!) and I’d be more worried that any horse panicking back on that fence has a fair chance of pulling the timber right off, smacking or staking himself with it - pandemonium.
Tethering to gates or fences isn’t the safest, either needs to give fairly quickly, or not at all (which is one way dealers teach them: the horse is ‘swung’, actively provoked to try but unsuccessfully break away, but it’s not pretty)
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It's a purpose built tie up area so it's more solid than a fence. There's no where else to tie him, there are multiple tie ups but they all look the same.
 
I’m just going to say here that I have a current pony who can undo any knot with her lips and teeth…and that I had one in the past who deliberately pulled free, either snapping the tie or pulling the wood it was attached too off the wall/fence. She’d then stand there in total satisfaction. It was a little rear, twist, yank. Repeated as needed. It wore off, thankfully. For a while I just looped the rope round the ring/bar/whatever so it would pull free harmlessly with a little friction, and I could then grab her and reattach calmly. Cheaper than repairing fences, parts of walls, doors… I entertain the current one with a haynet to keep her out of trouble.
 
Years ago I trained a horse and to yield to poll pressure in a similar manner to Smolmaus mentioned above except that I used the lead rope. Essentially I had the horse with headcollar and lead rope attached, then draped the lead rope up over the head and added pressure, releasing and treating when the horse relaxed and dropped away from the pressure. I'm not explaining it particularly well, but it was a very low stress game that we'd play for 5mins every day and it turned out to be a really useful skill for him to have.
 
cosmic389 said:
It's a purpose built tie up area so it's more solid than a fence. There's no where else to tie him, there are multiple tie ups but they all look the same.
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I understand what you're saying but that post and rail isn't new and those nails/ screws won't be in as tight as when it was put up. If you know he pulls back, please tie the string around the upright, not just to the rail.

Horses have died panicking because they pulled back and took what they were tied to with them.
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Mine is 6 now, and never learned not to panic when he gets the rope over his neck, or steps on his rope, or steps into the leg straps of his blanket. Total panic. All this rarely happens because I keep an eye on him as much as I can, but when it happens it's not pretty. When I'm grooming, I have a knife nearby to cut the rope. Had to do that only once when he was 2, but still. He has learned to yield to pressure, it's just these specific things that make him panic disproportionately.

He's an idiot (but he's my favorite idiot). He has managed to keep himself safe and sound so far (knocks on wood). Can't protect them from everything, I guess. Although I'll give @Timeforts method a try, thanks for explaining!

timefort said:
Years ago I trained a horse and to yield to poll pressure in a similar manner to Smolmaus mentioned above except that I used the lead rope. Essentially I had the horse with headcollar and lead rope attached, then draped the lead rope up over the head and added pressure, releasing and treating when the horse relaxed and dropped away from the pressure. I'm not explaining it particularly well, but it was a very low stress game that we'd play for 5mins every day and it turned out to be a really useful skill for him to have.
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SheriffTruman said:
Mine is 6 now, and never learned not to panic when he gets the rope over his neck, or steps on his rope, or steps into the leg straps of his blanket. Total panic. All this rarely happens because I keep an eye on him as much as I can, but when it happens it's not pretty.
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In line with what others have said I reckon it's down to the hard wired temperament of an individual horse - I watched my youngster step on his own rope yesterday and just quietly watched to see what would happen. He looked mildly surprised then rearranged his feet until he freed his head. I stood and watched while he did it a few times, sorting himself out every time. I would've intervened if needed, but he didn't need me. I've never taught him to do that, he just sort of...knew. He's not a panicker though, he's a canny little native who prefers to resolve issues to his satisfaction using a minimum of calories.
 
Fieldlife said:
Not quite the same, but I have that knows if he's grazing in hand and steps on the rope, he has to lift his foot to release the pressure. I have had many that dont know this, and seemed unable to learn. Sadly suspect this is similar. Though the principle is you teach them to give to pressure and not fight it.
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This is exactly what I do with all of my horses. If I'm hand grazing them I don't 'save' them, I leave them to work it out. I've never had a horse not work out to not panic after one or two times doing this.
 
Widgeon said:
In line with what others have said I reckon it's down to the hard wired temperament of an individual horse - I watched my youngster step on his own rope yesterday and just quietly watched to see what would happen. He looked mildly surprised then rearranged his feet until he freed his head. I stood and watched while he did it a few times, sorting himself out every time. I would've intervened if needed, but he didn't need me. I've never taught him to do that, he just sort of...knew. He's not a panicker though, he's a canny little native who prefers to resolve issues to his satisfaction using a minimum of calories.
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I agree. Mine is pretty mellow for an Arab, but when he panicks he seems to lose all sense. Though as a rule, he also likes to use a minimum of calories 🤣 . That's just being smart when you're a horse, I guess. He is being a good horse most of the time.
 
Thanks everyone, I will definitely try the tip timefort mentioned. It might not help when he's actually stuck again, but if there's a chance it might, I will try it.
The twine used are thinned out so they break easily, even so I did find a safety-t tie I bought years ago, so I'm tying him to that now, with it attached to the post not the rail.
Unfortunately the idolo tie didn't work for him.

I know prevention is best, but since I know his reaction the purpose of this post is to see if there are ways to teach him not to react the way he does.

Fieldlife said:
Not quite the same, but I have that knows if he's grazing in hand and steps on the rope, he has to lift his foot to release the pressure. I have had many that dont know this, and seemed unable to learn. Sadly suspect this is similar. Though the principle is you teach them to give to pressure and not fight it.
Click to expand...

Now that you mention it, his response to stepping on the lead rope is to jerk his head up until the rope slides free, he doesn't associate that with his hoof. Although I can prevent that easily say when I'm hand grazing him. So if those behaviours are hard-wired, I'm hoping I can still teach him to yield to pressure rather than fight and panic. He's getting better with tying up as time passes, but he is still a food motivated cob, if there's food on the ground (e.g. dropped hay from hay net), he will try to get to it. Although I don't usually tie him with food at home, I want him to learn to stand quietly without a distraction.
 
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