Teaching a stop

[Clodagh]

When the dog won’t retrieve.
Scout will not retrieve dummies. He brings me all manner of dead things, and today a cow pat that had dried sufficiently to be carried, but if it is thrown he won’t go and get it. I think he’s been very overfaced by his previous owner and just stresses. The others go insane at the sight of the training vest, he just shuts down.
I’m quietly confident he’ll bring back a dead pheasant when we are out there, and have a couple of small shoots who don’t pay me that I don’t mind using for a bit of experience. But how am I going to teach the stop at a distance? Directional work we’ll have to try to learn on the job.

 

[maisie06]

Can you start with some wings attached to the dummy? I have a cocker who wasn't a keen retriever (still isn't on canvas dummies!) I had one trainer say he'll never retrieve, well she was wrong - with the help of a fantastic gundog trainer he's turned into a damn good sweeping up dog, if there's a bird he'll find it..

So with him we started with rabbit skin dummies and wings attached to canvas dummies. If he's not sure about a thrown could you perhaps put them down as blinds and get him to hunt onto them - although it's not quite the done thing for a lab!

I assume you have a stop at close range? If so another trick I picked up was to stop the dog at say 20 feet and walk back another 10 feet, then put a dummy - or dried cow pat! inbetween you and the dog and call him back onto that retrieve as a reward for the stop.

 

[Clodagh]

Can you start with some wings attached to the dummy? I have a cocker who wasn't a keen retriever (still isn't on canvas dummies!) I had one trainer say he'll never retrieve, well she was wrong - with the help of a fantastic gundog trainer he's turned into a damn good sweeping up dog, if there's a bird he'll find it..

So with him we started with rabbit skin dummies and wings attached to canvas dummies. If he's not sure about a thrown could you perhaps put them down as blinds and get him to hunt onto them - although it's not quite the done thing for a lab!

I assume you have a stop at close range? If so another trick I picked up was to stop the dog at say 20 feet and walk back another 10 feet, then put a dummy - or dried cow pat! inbetween you and the dog and call him back onto that retrieve as a reward for the stop.

Thank you, good ideas there. Rabbit skin dummy no help as he shuts down before he sees what it is. I will just put some dummies out though for him to find and see if that helps. The stop is great at any distance but I want to test it when he’s going fast and away from me, and he just doesn’t.
If he can only sweep that’s fine. It’s just a block, he’s so keen but a worry wart.

 

[maisie06]

Is there anything he likes to carry around at home? you could use that. My trainer is currentley working with a totally shut down spaniel, god knows what happened to it but terrified of the game bag so the game bag has been dispensed with for the moment and retrieves are done in the garden with the soft toy the dog seems to like.

Do you mean he doesn't stop when going fast and away or just doesn't go fast and away to be able to test?

 

[Clodagh]

Do you mean he doesn't stop when going fast and away or just doesn't go fast and away to be able to test?

The latter. ?

 

[Clodagh]

Is there anything he likes to carry around at home? you could use that. My trainer is currentley working with a totally shut down spaniel, god knows what happened to it but terrified of the game bag so the game bag has been dispensed with for the moment and retrieves are done in the garden with the soft toy the dog seems to like.

He loves OH’s slippers but OH not keen on them being used. ?.
He will pick up something new maybe once. We are doing nothing for a bit now and just admiring the in house slipper carries. ?.
I need some cold game. I’m running on some bantam cocks that I can use once they are big enough in their transition to ferret food. They will be dead first everyone!

 

[maisie06]

Maybe bribe OH with some new slippers!! But that's how you'll unlock him, my guess is he will be a different dog on game, especially warm game and a good sweeper is a massive asset to the shoot.

Pity you wern't nearer I have a freezer full of partridge and a few bantam cocks too, mind you looks like they will be the only partridge available this year, it's still 50/50 as to whether our shoot will go ahead this year to to lack of birds and those available are being practically autioned off to the highest bidder so our little syndicate are being priced out :-(

 

[Thistle]

Have you thought about breaking it down into baby steps.

Walk dog at heel, stop whistle every time you stop, he sits and raise your hand.

Then instead of the dog increasing the distance you do. So sit dog up as before, you walk away, turn (you can reinforce the whistle at the point that you turn by turning, face the dog, blow stop and raise hand) and return praise dog. Or throw a treat just behind the dog if you can aim well (not in front you don't want him creeping)

Once you are sure that dog associates whistle with stop/sit take dog out and let him bumble around nearby sniffing. Blow stop and raise your hand when dog is a few steps away from you. If he stops immediately go to him and you reward/praise/treat.

Try to increase the distance little by little.

Can you get him excited over a tennis ball. If so then hold one in the raised hand as you blow stop, he'll raise his head to look at the ball and then you can throw the ball for him. (Or steal P's slippers!)

Initially with F I had to forget all rules about steadieness as she was so keep to please that she'd just put the brakes on as she'd learnt not to chase. I had to razz her up and get her excited and allow ball chasing for a while, then the ball becomes the reward and you throw it for the dog to catch. Eventually put the steady back in by asking for a slight delay between stop and retrieve, Beans will sell his soul for a tennis ball so his reward was to be allowed to carry the ball around whilst grinning at me. Mix it up, keep it exciting, you can start to add direction by exaggerated throw out to each side as reward too.

 

[CorvusCorax]

It's a completely different discipline but my bitch would race out after the dumbbell and then...do an amazingly fast down and indicate it, like it was a tracking article. So I trained those things really well. She would hold it no problem when presented to her but had no desire to pick it up and bring it back when thrown.
We fixed in a couple of sessions with my trainer teasing her with it just out of her reach as if it was a ball (she already knew to want to 'win' things from him) I would either throw it out to him and he would then make it move before sending her or he would just have it and be making it active, also putting it on a line and keeping it active myself, and rewarding initially for just acknowledging/showing interest and then touching and then picking up firmly with no mouthing and then pairing that with the nice sit in front/present/hold. It's a nice exercise now.

 

[Clodagh]

Have you thought about breaking it down into baby steps.

Walk dog at heel, stop whistle every time you stop, he sits and raise your hand.

Then instead of the dog increasing the distance you do. So sit dog up as before, you walk away, turn (you can reinforce the whistle at the point that you turn by turning, face the dog, blow stop and raise hand) and return praise dog. Or throw a treat just behind the dog if you can aim well (not in front you don't want him creeping)

Once you are sure that dog associates whistle with stop/sit take dog out and let him bumble around nearby sniffing. Blow stop and raise your hand when dog is a few steps away from you. If he stops immediately go to him and you reward/praise/treat.

Try to increase the distance little by little.

Can you get him excited over a tennis ball. If so then hold one in the raised hand as you blow stop, he'll raise his head to look at the ball and then you can throw the ball for him. (Or steal P's slippers!)

Initially with F I had to forget all rules about steadieness as she was so keep to please that she'd just put the brakes on as she'd learnt not to chase. I had to razz her up and get her excited and allow ball chasing for a while, then the ball becomes the reward and you throw it for the dog to catch. Eventually put the steady back in by asking for a slight delay between stop and retrieve, Beans will sell his soul for a tennis ball so his reward was to be allowed to carry the ball around whilst grinning at me. Mix it up, keep it exciting, you can start to add direction by exaggerated throw out to each side as reward too.

He knows the stop whistle, he just never goes fast enough to test it when he’s committed to something. He’s never really committed! He doesn’t like balls either. He’s a conundrum!
It’s one of the first things all mine learn.

 

[Clodagh]

It's a completely different discipline but my bitch would race out after the dumbbell and then...do an amazingly fast down and indicate it, like it was a tracking article. So I trained those things really well. She would hold it no problem when presented to her but had no desire to pick it up and bring it back when thrown.
We fixed in a couple of sessions with my trainer teasing her with it just out of her reach as if it was a ball (she already knew to want to 'win' things from him) I would either throw it out to him and he would then make it move before sending her or he would just have it and be making it active, also putting it on a line and keeping it active myself, and rewarding initially for just acknowledging/showing interest and then touching and then picking up firmly with no mouthing and then pairing that with the nice sit in front/present/hold. It's a nice exercise now.

I see that baby steps is the way. But I think he now knows I predict failure, although I try really hard to blag it!

 

[Clodagh]

But… he just ran out and fetched a dummy! We’ve had 2 weeks of no training at all. He happened to be in the yard when spaniel went out so he watched through the gate. He actually looked enthusiastic when we put her back so whizzed him out, made exciting noises, chucked the dummy and he ran and got it! Well, you’d have thought he’d just made ftch! ?. He was allowed a lengthy parade and then gave it to me beautifully. I now wait for the stars to align then I’ll try again.

 

[CorvusCorax]

We do all sorts of mad things with dumbbells. My friend had a dog who was really soured with it so he fed him with the dumbbell on the windowsill and he never put the food down until the dog looked at the dumbbell and moved it closer and closer and built up the positive association from there. Also putting it down on the ground, holding the dog in the collar, restraining them, then scooping it up and putting it away, 'here's what you could have won'. Then again and again until the dog really thinks he wants it.

 

[Clodagh]

We do all sorts of mad things with dumbbells. My friend had a dog who was really soured with it so he fed him with the dumbbell on the windowsill and he never put the food down until the dog looked at the dumbbell and moved it closer and closer and built up the positive association from there. Also putting it down on the ground, holding the dog in the collar, restraining them, then scooping it up and putting it away, 'here's what you could have won'. Then again and again until the dog really thinks he wants it.

I wondered about me running around retrieving it. Normally used to teach steadiness ?

 

[Thistle]

Can you use another dog to gee him up a bit then? If he likes a bit of competition. It would have to be a steady dog.

Throw a dummy/ball, no rules for him, just let him run in etc. Other dog sits. If S doesn't go then send the other dog. I bet he'll get competitive eventually, then harness the drive that you've created.

If all else fails he'd make a fab beating dog!

 

[Clodagh]

Can you use another dog to gee him up a bit then? If he likes a bit of competition. It would have to be a steady dog.

Throw a dummy/ball, no rules for him, just let him run in etc. Other dog sits. If S doesn't go then send the other dog. I bet he'll get competitive eventually, then harness the drive that you've created.

If all else fails he'd make a fab beating dog!

I think he’d be a great peg dog, he’d never run in and he’s so handsome.
I can try using another dog, but I hate mugging if he then tries to take it. Do you think if he doesn’t go bring him back, sit him up then send the other?

 

[Thistle]

I think he’d be a great peg dog, he’d never run in and he’s so handsome.
I can try using another dog, but I hate mugging if he then tries to take it. Do you think if he doesn’t go bring him back, sit him up then send the other?

Perhaps put him on a line with your foot on the end, tell him to sit and send the other dog a few times, then let him have a go, once he's realised that the other dog could steal all his fun, a bit like watching through the gate but closer.
is he likely to mug?

 

[Clodagh]

.
is he likely to mug?

idk, it’s not something I ever give them the opportunity to try! I’ll have a go at the weekend.

 

[druid]

Interestingly I teach stop in pretty much the opposite way to everything described here! Stop is a positive for mine, something great usually happens next. I never treach it when walking at heel as you encourage the dog to think it means sit by you.

We introduce it at the same time as directional handling...to the food bowl! Put bowl in a corner of the yard with a few delicious treats (chicken, cheese or whatever) allowing dog to see. Heel away and sit dog up. Move yourself to the position necessary to send the dog back or out - whichever you want to work on. Pip the stop whistle with your hand signal for stop then immeadiately send to the bowl for reward. You can work up to multiple bowls and then dummies or cold game, then stopping and redirecting etc. That pip on the whistle becomes associated with a positive response and with sitting distance from you awaiting the next direction....which is the plan all along

For a non retriever we start with just dead and hold on the sofa with a teddy or similar and build it up from there in the house, the yard and moving out to the field.

 

[Clodagh]

Well Scout has turned a corner. After the single retrieve he did the other day I decided to bring him out with the spaniel this morning. We went up the road to the hayfield, I was wearing the training vest. By the time I get there he’d normally be dragging behind looking sad but with Pep he trundled along happily. I just ignored him why I set up her first retrieve, and he ran in and got it while I was setting her up. Good for her and for him! So then I trained them together. He did several retrieves and was very keen. She is a bit noisy when he goes, but we progressed from hysterical yodelling to muttered whinges.
Well done Thistle!

 

[Thistle]

A little competition often works wonders. In a group I've seen it work to good effect when the reluctant dog gets put back on lead and another dog is sent. Reluctant dog then waits until last to go and is often a lot keener then.