Teaching Half Pass

RachelFerd

RachelFerd

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Just after some ideas on how best to introduce concept of half pass to my grey lad.

He is very well established in leg yield, shoulder in and walk pirouettes. His travers is ok but not brilliant.

I am quite used to riding half pass on more established horses, and taught my old horse from scratch easily (although he was naturally particularly good at lateral work).

When I try and work on a few baby steps of half pass with my lad I seem to be getting a bit of an angry/confused response from him - not sure how I can clarify the movement for him better. He is better working in trot rather than in walk. In walk he really pushes back against my leg aid requesting him to move across, in trot I can get a very small degree of sideways movement whilst maintaining the inside flexion, but it is very much lacking in fluidity at the moment.

I am currently riding the movement from the centre line towards the side of the arena, riding a few steps of shoulder-fore first and then encouraging him to move across. I am trying to keep my inside hip bone pointing in the direction of travel and slightly weighted, but I am finding myself wriggling around all over the place trying to create the movement :(

Any ideas? Obvs still working on improving the travers work as I know this is linked :)
 
Ahh bless, they're so helpful sometimes :p

Does he have a problem with inside flexion when you're travelling in a straight line? Or is it literally as soon as you ask him to move over?
 
Dancer took along time to master it. I always think of it as traver on a diagonal as bbh said it else as you are already doing it.
Really reward him if does so much as a little step so he knows he is doing the right thing.
Really work on suppleness and carry on doing lots of traver on a circle as well as a straight line till he finds it much easier.
 
I taught B in canter first, which seemed much easier for him, then came back to the trot once canter was established. With the canter, I'd do a half 10m circle to the centre line, so the bend was already established, and then go straight for a few steps, over for a few steps, much as you'd teach leg yield. He understood the concept much better in canter, and the lady I train with (who trains with Carl and has won at inter1 at the regionals) said it was the better way to introduce it for some horses.
 
Spend some time establishing travers, renvers etc. So that he understands the aids and doesn't question when you use them.

Once he is happy and confident with that then start to introduce travers across the diagonal. So turn on to the diagonal, ride straight and then ask for travers in exactly the way you would on the long side.
 
We've just taught it to my horse and canter is much easier. In canter, he glides across but in trot, I get a loss of tempo and grumpy expressions back at me, and I struggle to maintain bend going in one direction. See if canter helps as otherwise, it sounds like you're doing everything right.
 
Like someone else said - inside bend in straight line is crucial. Do on inside track so you can tell when there is falling out. Horse should bend around your inside leg with help of inside rein - outside leg to control falling out Then you can begin to ask the quarters to come in with a stronger outside leg further back. Separate hands and don't hang on - common mistake is too much outside rein (mine for instance).

Travers, halfpass, renvers - all part of the same thing really, but I personally find half pass the easiest to "cheat" on as it is quite easy to fool oneself the horse is travelling sideways when really it is just falling in rather than moving for outside leg. Of course you can use this to your advantage by half passing from centre line back to track, most horses find this easy (we all love the outside track, right…?)

Agree with Spotted cat that it is easier to learn on circle, but it can be quite difficult to translate onto straight track.

Do feel free to ignore all of the above as I am a show jumper (I do however own an Anky pad)

Also you get much lower marks in a test when the horse kicks against the outside leg, so if you're competing at Medium or above its apparently a good thing to try and establish at home first (as demonstrated by my sister & her Maggie) :D
 
I'd back off the straight line HP (if you know what I mean!) until he is more confident and established in the travers. Then I'd re-introduce the HP by riding the travers on a diagonal line. Once happy with that then then do SI into HP.

In the interim however, play with LY circle spirals, and every now and again change the direction of flexion for a few steps.
 
An sure one of mine had taught himself. Definitely looked like half pass as I was leading him across the field this morning in a howling gale and pouring rain. Was very impressed.
 
humblepie said:
An sure one of mine had taught himself. Definitely looked like half pass as I was leading him across the field this morning in a howling gale and pouring rain. Was very impressed.
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Only HP? Poor effort, what happened to the piaffe/passage?! :D
 
I think, and this may sound stupid, that I don't feel like riding half pass should feel like riding travers. Is that crazy? I don't want to feel like we are just going quarters-in across the diagonal... when I ride HP on more established horses it feels like there is much more sideways movement through and across with the shoulders (simultaneous with the HQs, but very much shoulders leading)

I think because I am always thinking HP = Shoulders Leading the movement, it doesn't compute for me just to think of it as quarters-in. Does that make sense to anyone, or am I being a bit thick?

Also because I was always taught to go into a shoulder-in position first, I think that what I want is to create sideways step from that SI position, rather than doing QI from a diagonal line. Someone explain the difference please!!
 
Actually, the more I think about it, the more I realise where I am going wrong :D I need to keep continuity between the way I ask for travers and the way I ask for HP, no wonder poor horse is confused!
 
RachelFerd said:
Actually, the more I think about it, the more I realise where I am going wrong :D I need to keep continuity between the way I ask for travers and the way I ask for HP, no wonder poor horse is confused!
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In fairness, though, I've usually taught it by starting down the centre line in shoulder in, then just moving them sideways a bit off my outside leg - they've always grasped it quite quickly that way. I've always taught the basics in walk, then moved into trot quite quickly. The reason I'm saying this is that I think your shoulder in idea is not so far off and the people who teach from travers presumably have to be very careful not to end up with 1/4s leading. Not saying I disagree with this method, just that it isn't the only one.

I think possibly more important is the fact you say you've ridden it on more established horses and it felt like a more sideways movement - well, on an established horse with good suppleness, engagement and collection yes it is! But when you are teaching a baby who hasn't achieved such high levels of these, it feels a lot less dramatic - is it posslble that you are encountering resistance because you are asking him to move more sideways than he is capable of at this stage?
 
TableDancer said:
In fairness, though, I've usually taught it by starting down the centre line in shoulder in, then just moving them sideways a bit off my outside leg - they've always grasped it quite quickly that way. I've always taught the basics in walk, then moved into trot quite quickly. The reason I'm saying this is that I think your shoulder in idea is not so far off and the people who teach from travers presumably have to be very careful not to end up with 1/4s leading. Not saying I disagree with this method, just that it isn't the only one.
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Agreed.
 
Yes TableDancer, I think you are right. I am used to riding HP on warmbloods competing at medium and above. My own horse is a very short coupled TB who, of course, does not really resemble the way they feel at any point - although on the plus side he is much more responive.

My old chap picked up HP pretty much immediately when introduced, but again he was a very long and flexible horse who whilst not terribly easy to engage, did have a real skill for lateral work. Current horse actually really good at engaging and collecting, but he does lack some degree of suppleness due to conformation.

On the established horses I usually start for a stride or two in SI then carry on, and I rarely encounter 'confused' moments. I think for things to make sense for my horse I just have to connect the concept of travers more obviously into asking for the HP. No risk of me ending up going Qs first, as I seem to be obsessed by the shoulders leading part!!
 
Just a thought - but as you say horse is good in SI - what I was told to do to teach a young horse (this by very experienced dressage rider) is to ride shoulder fore maintaining that feeling as you go round a ten meter loop in and back towards the track (Like a tear drop shape) - as you get on the center line position with the shoulder for and good bend you just drop the 'outside' leg back a little and ask for a little half pass. Its worked for me doing that - but all my horses got lateral work pretty easily - can't ride true collection though for love nor money!
 
For what it's worth I've been taught the tear-drop method too and find it quite effective because it stops you as a rider asking too much initially. But do you feel like your horse isn't understanding what your asking for or that there is some resistance in his neck and jaw, because that changes the approach.
 
DabDab said:
For what it's worth I've been taught the tear-drop method too and find it quite effective because it stops you as a rider asking too much initially. But do you feel like your horse isn't understanding what your asking for or that there is some resistance in his neck and jaw, because that changes the approach.
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I think any 'method' or set of aids you apply is only a blueprint and you will have to adapt constantly to respond to resistance/confusion in the horse. So whilst I do find that method helpful - particularly as I was a bit prone to get too parallel to the fence / quarters in advance etc - it is like anything a starting point which you modify depending on how the horse responds. Even of you get a few clumsy steps at first that's a start!
Liz
 
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