Teaching horse not to panic when it stands on a lead rope

[Caol Ila]

I'm going to preface this by saying this is not an issue I have personally observed. It has just been reported to me. I am very good at rope management (years of rock climbing and a few jobs handling bonkers dressage horses), so I don't put them in a position where they will step on the rope if I think it's going to be a problem.

Unfortunately, I am not the only person who handles Fin (or Hermosa, for that matter, but she's fine) and not everyone is super on the ball with where the rope is going. There have been a few incidents where he's stepped on the lead, panicked, then galloped in frantic circles for a couple minutes. He always stops, but still. It isn't ideal.

Any ideas for how to teach him to cope better? Or just emphasise to people that they really need to not let him step on the rope?

He stands tied perfectly. But he can be a tricky horse to teach to not be fearful or reactive to things because he can go from 0 (fine) to 60 (very not fine) in about a second. When at 60, he isn't capable of learning.

 

[paddy555]

I teach it as a matter of course.

I just put a rope on the head collar, put them in an enclosed area, ie large stable or small yard and let him stand on it. Then give the command back. The horse learns to step backwards off the rope as his means of releasing himself from the situation, most pick it up quickly or at least they don't panic excessively.

is he scared of the loose rope dragging along when he frees himself. A few lessons ground tying so he understands a rope hanging down.

You may have to repeat a lot to get through to him. He was a feral horse I believe so to him this may mean something different than to a domesticated baby. There is also the question if something happened to him with ropes before you knew him.
I did have one that couldn't learn and basically panicked if the lead rope fell to the ground. I knew from his history that someone had indeed happened and he really was scared. I just had to always be careful and never let anyone else handle him.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Is it just the one person who lets him tread on his rope? Are they paid by the yard? Tbh, that is not great horse handling.

Mine are all used to it happening and taught themselves to just stop and then give me a pained look, but I am a muppet and am not paid to look after other people's horses.

 

[Horseysheepy]

As above posters, as part of young horse training. Also taught to lower heads when I touch their polls, which helps also in this situation.

 

[Caol Ila]

I teach it as a matter of course.

I just put a rope on the head collar, put them in an enclosed area, ie large stable or small yard and let him stand on it. Then give the command back. The horse learns to step backwards off the rope as his means of releasing himself from the situation, most pick it up quickly or at least they don't panic excessively.

is he scared of the loose rope dragging along when he frees himself. A few lessons ground tying so he understands a rope hanging down.

You may have to repeat a lot to get through to him. He was a feral horse I believe so to him this may mean something different than to a domesticated baby. There is also the question if something happened to him with ropes before you knew him.
I did have one that couldn't learn and basically panicked if the lead rope fell to the ground. I knew from his history that someone had indeed happened and he really was scared. I just had to always be careful and never let anyone else handle him.

Both, I think. He is worried about the rope dragging (we can work on that) but launches into panic mode when he steps on it and feels trapped.

They used ropes to scare them into races and stock trailers when they were captured. This probably doesn't help.

Is it just the one person who lets him tread on his rope? Are they paid by the yard? Tbh, that is not great horse handling.

Mine are all used to it happening and taught themselves to just stop and then give me a pained look, but I am a muppet and am not paid to look after other people's horses.

All of the above. TBH, I don't have the yard staff catch him because they tie the ropes around the necks of everything they are catching and sometimes they fall to the ground. Terrible idea, with this horse. If I said, don't do that, the people working that day might not get the message. It's my friends who I exchange turn out/bring in duties with. I did say, just don't let him step on it. If I can fix it, I will.

As above posters, as part of young horse training. Also taught to lower heads when I touch their polls, which helps also in this situation.

That ship sure sailed. The horse was feral until he was eight. The head lowering game is a good suggestion, though.

 

[saalsk]

I will start with saying I am not an expert, and I just wanted to say that it is lovely that you are working on a potential issue, for the benefit of your horse.
I have done lots of desensitising stuff for mine - getting them to sigh and roll their eyes when a badly thrown rug (for example) lands round their feet, rather than on their backs, and having ropes around fetlocks that can put pressure on, but be dropped quickly, to get them used to standing still rather than panic, in the inevitable moments I forget to undo a leg strap when removing a rug, or they step on a rope. A farrier I had when my teen was still a baby, used a sheep crook to pick up hindlegs of youngsters who could be free/unpredictable with legs, just to get them used to pressure, and that standing still was the release - standing still was the default setting I was looking for, and that always got rewarded in some way (pressure goes away, treat appears etc - whatever works for them).
I saw a known bad-tier (not your case, I know, but I can see the panicked horses face now) being tied to a metal ring, with a leather lead rope with a chain section that attached to the chifney the horse was wearing. So he could be *taught* how to not pull back when he panicked. Vowed there and then that I would do whatever I could to make sure my lot were not going to end up having lessons like that. Accidents happen, we all know that, and in 15 years I never got one of mine over a fear of being touched with gloves, but whatever you can do to help, has to be a good thing. Good luck

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

I tended to just throw the rope over their backs and let them walk in or out while I hold the electric gate handle to keep anyone from following. (I know very bad practice in general) Luckily all of mine have been taught very, very quickly that when I shout 'stand' in my sternest voice they stand even if not being held and then quickly step backwards when I shout 'back, back'.
But never do as I do - it was a similar situation putting one out and bringing another in that caused my accident a couple of years back that still has me unable to ride and not fixed for anything much, that I could have avoided if I was much more careful bringing in and turning out. I did start to do it all by the book but have slipped back into my sloppy old ways, timely reminder to do things correctly not lazily!

 

[paddy555]

Both, I think. He is worried about the rope dragging (we can work on that) but launches into panic mode when he steps on it and feels trapped.

They used ropes to scare them into races and stock trailers when they were captured. This probably doesn't help.

I wondered if the feral bit would be the problem and it may be so deeply ingrained.
However let the rope drop to the ground and put your foot on it, just for a few seconds and reward, keep repeating and the minute he thinks about pulling back talk to him (or whatever you do) and reward. If you are worried he is going to take off put a 2nd rope on him into your hand.
Keep going until he pulls back and you can correct him.

You could break it down even further and spread out some climbing ropes around your yard/school so he has to wander over them, back over them. Whilst a normal horse would find that easy with his background it may worry him.

I think this is so important to teach any horse, if one falls off and the reins go over the head they will no doubt tread on a rein.
For Fin though it may simply be beyond him, just too hard to overide that past.
Head lowering would be a great idea. Another skill for him. .

 

[Caol Ila]

Aye, he often does not work like a normal domestic pony. He can be very reactive but also has an extraordinary ability to tune out and shut down when he thinks things are too hairy (like you're trying to put a rug on him ). Makes it tricky. When he's tuned out, he might not be running away or imploding, but he's not mentally processing, either, and therefore isn't learning that the scary thing isn't scary. I think that is a coping mechanism he learned when he could not escape, like after he was run into the race.

Putting some old climbing ropes down in the school is a great idea. Then move on to your first suggestion with letting a rope drop and me with a foot on it.

It may not be possible to overrride his past, but it's worth trying a few things if they can be done safely.

ETA: Definitely a job for *retired* ropes (I have a couple). I wouldn't climb on one that a horse has stepped on!

 

[SEL]

One of my nastiest falls was off a newly backed welshie who had got tied up in electric fencing as a yearling. If his owners had mentioned this to my friend earlier we would have worked on it. I had clocked he wasn't keen on the leadrope but there were no lead ropes when I was riding. But there was a stream, which soaked his tail, which then wrapped itself around his back legs. A passing cyclist commended me on the rodeo display as I lay gasping on the floor with my broken ribs.

Said friend had a sort of round pen (before they were A Thing) so he couldn't bolt off into the distance. She had a v long rope and did a lot of the usual flapping stuff with a handful of mix to reward him. Just built up his exposure over time until he could deal with the rope all over his body & between legs and it wasn't a snake out to get him.

What's Finn like in a stable? Does that make him feel trapped or is it just the tied up and "stuck" he can't deal with?

 

[Squeak]

For a short term solution would one of those panic clips on the lead rope be worth it for him? Just thinking that it should release if he starts panicking when standing on the rope and could help prevent an injury.

 

[maya2008]

Short term - cut a lead rope so it is shorter and will not hang right to the ground and get stuck under his feet? Would that work?

 

[planete]

Or ask people leading him to just thread a rope through the headcollar, so that if he steps on it it just falls off?

 

[Boulty]

Hmmm that’s an interesting one… I guess you could start with a few reminder lessons on the way to release rope pressure being to soften towards it rather than pulling back (probably including lowering his head on a light cue).

I guess you’d also need to figure out if ropes on the floor are part of the issue… perhaps if you could get a few that are heavy enough not to pose an entanglement danger if he was allowed to explore them either inhand or left to his own devices at liberty with rewards for being calm / being brave enough to investigate.

Not sure with his history if you’d be able to get him comfortable enough to teach ground tying (I mean if he didn’t go from 0-60 and you had a cue for him lifting a foot off the rope to show him what he needs to do but can’t think of a way to get there safely)

I guess if you could train him to drop his head & stand still even if he couldn’t figure out how to free himself that would still be a win?

 

[Caol Ila]

More great ideas. Without making me feel like a useless trainer.

The panic snap clip is a good idea as a temporary solution. I'm off to buy one. If he got loose, he would not run far from you so long as there wasn't anything chasing him. The short rope would work in theory, but it would be a pain because he is often led with more than one horse.

Definitely going to try ropes on the floor. We're sadly not allowed to loose school, but the long lead or lunge line should give him the ability to move away easily.

Fin is happy in his stable but I am very careful to not do training or desensitization work in it because I want him to stay happy in his stable. It needs to be his safe space. I discovered pretty early in our relationship that doing that sort of thing in the stable is not a good idea. (1) He realizes how small the stable is (it's big, as far as stables go, maybe 15x13, but still) and gets quite panicky and (2) he's more reluctant to go in it the next day. If I'm doing any kind of densensitization work, I stick him on his 15' lead, and we leave the stable.

 

[Caol Ila]

At least he’s cute.

 

[Horseysheepy]

He is very cute, and a lovely colour too.

 

[Highmileagecob]

Haha good old native self preservation strikes again! Ropes and hose pipes are probably snakes in his opinion. Think you may have to make it very clear to other handlers that they are dealing with an extremely aware horse who is over sensitive to certain issues. My old boy is fine with coiled ropes, ropes attached to headcollars, ropes dangling from the tie rings, but a rope on the floor in a line needs a good investigation and a wide berth. They have a good imagination don't they?

 

[smolmaus]

I learn something useful from every thread you post about this boy Caol Ila. Wish we could psychically beam into his pretty head how lucky he is to have someone so sensitive to his weird traumatised little brain

 

[soloequestrian]

When I was backing mine I had weighted pillow cases to let her feel weight on her back before I got on. She didn't care at all when I put the weight onto the saddle but as soon as she stepped forwards she went into a mild panic - it was like she felt as if she was being pushed along by the weight and she got faster and faster if she could. I started asking her to take a step with the weight on and just lifting it off if she showed signs of panic. As soon as she stopped and relaxed she got a reward (she is clicker trained). It felt quite counter intuitive because I was still rewarding her when she reacted 'badly' to the weight but I think actually the reward was for not panicking. We were able to progress quickly to a few steps, teaching her to halt regularly and feel like she could control the weight. Very glad I did that stage, I'm not sure how she would have reacted to my weight without having gone through it!
I wonder if something similar is required here. Start by putting pressure downwards with rope, just with your hand, and reward any stop or give towards pressure. Build it up, perhaps by attaching a short length of rope to a broom handle or something so you can put pressure on from lower, with a bit more force, but without the rope being on the ground or you standing on it (which sounds like it could go quite wrong if the horse did panic) or having to bend down. If he gets jumpy take the pressure off and reward when he is calm again, then put it back on. Baby steps.

 

[Caol Ila]

Haha good old native self preservation strikes again! Ropes and hose pipes are probably snakes in his opinion. Think you may have to make it very clear to other handlers that they are dealing with an extremely aware horse who is over sensitive to certain issues. My old boy is fine with coiled ropes, ropes attached to headcollars, ropes dangling from the tie rings, but a rope on the floor in a line needs a good investigation and a wide berth. They have a good imagination don't they?

They really do. He will warily step over a hose on the ground. Another person had an incident where she threw a headcollar on the ground in the field, and he panicked. Because he was between her, another horse, and the gate, he knocked her over because that was the only direction he could go. I don't let this person handle my horses anymore because she's done a few naff things, and I don't think I can make even Hermosa that idiot-proof. Her justification was that she throws headcollars on the ground around her horse. Uh, cool?

My friends who do morning bring in or turnout (depending on time of year) are lovely, caring people who have done a lot of good with him and are very patient. They are just a bit absent-minded sometimes. The other day, after they reported a stepping-on-rope incident, I did say that you just have to watch the rope.

I started asking her to take a step with the weight on and just lifting it off if she showed signs of panic. As soon as she stopped and relaxed she got a reward (she is clicker trained). It felt quite counter intuitive because I was still rewarding her when she reacted 'badly' to the weight but I think actually the reward was for not panicking. We were able to progress quickly to a few steps, teaching her to halt regularly and feel like she could control the weight. Very glad I did that stage, I'm not sure how she would have reacted to my weight without having gone through it!

That is actually a thing. It's called CAT-H training. Warwick Schiller and a few other trainers have a few videos about it, but it hasn't completely caught on in the horse world because it seems counterintuitive to the 'don't let him get away with it' framework that pervades so much horse training. And the handler has to be very switched on to subtle equine body language. Comes from dog training in a study where researchers working with fear-aggressive dogs exposed the animals to a stressful object - another dog or a human - but kept them far enough away so while the fearful dogs noticed the decoy, they did not go over threshold. That is key - as I'm sure you worked out with your mare. Once the animal passes that threshold, it is unable to learn and everyone has a bad time. At the first signal of relaxation, the decoy would retreat, thus rewarding the dog with the thing they wanted more than treats or toys - the fear-inducing person or dog moving away. The researchers reported that the fearful dogs became friendly and curious.

This is very, very effective with horses. Lead horse up to scary object and stop when it notices scary object but isn't actively trying to escape. Wait until you get a flicker of relaxation. The smallest will do. A slight lowering of the head, twitch of an ear, anything. Then walk away from scary object and reward more signs of relaxation. Rinse and repeat until you can approach scary thing. When I get around to my ropes on the ground work, as per paddy's suggestion, it's how I will do it.

However, you need to be in control of both the horse and the scary stimulus. CAT-H won't help in the context of real world sh1tshows where things happen, and animals go from fine to over threshold in the blink of an eye. Fin is very good at this, unfortunately. But hopefully it will help in the long run by teaching the animal to not panic and self-regulate emotionally. It changed Hermosa from a scatty teenager into a self-posessed, very spook-proof young lady. She too would panic at stuff like ropes falling on the ground and rugs, but never mentally checked out in the way that Fin does (plus, being 3, a PRE, and actually domestic probably helped).

 

[Palindrome]

Does he yield to pressure on the lead rope? If not, I would work on that first (each side and downward).
Then desensitizing to a rope around the legs, back, neck etc...
And after all of that I's just leave the leadrope on the ground while he is grazing and watch him closely until he has it figured out.

 

[Caol Ila]

Aye, those are the normal things one would do. He is very responsive at yielding to pressure from the headcollar when it's a human holding the rope.

One thing I have not done are these sorts of exercises.

. I can't work out in my head how to do it safely with this horse.

 

[stangs]

Also wonder if he panics when he steps on the rope because, presumably, it's a hell of a lot more pressure on his poll that you'd normally apply? No clue how you'd train that out though.

One thing I have not done are these sorts of exercises.

. I can't work out in my head how to do it safely with this horse.

I'd say don't bother for now. Focus on getting him comfortable with ropes on the ground and trailing around in general and only do any sort of rope work once you can trust that, should he have a bad reaction, the rope on the ground won't make things even worse.

A safer way of doing what she's doing would probably be the hobble training technique - rather than having the leg attached in such a way that any unwanted movement results in increased pressure, and no chance of freeing himself, you can just have it like this.

 

[Palindrome]

or you could put a lunge line on the floor (not attached to the headcollar) and make him walk on it, like people do with a tarp, that might help him figure out it's OK to walk on it. It could be the feeling of the rope under his feet that is the problem.

 

[stangs]

Palindrome’s post makes me wonder whether you couldn’t just clicker train him to actively seek out and step on ropes on the ground? Might help rewire his brain a bit. (Potential side effect would be him crushing every hose in the vicinity.)