Teaching leg yield

[Akkalia1]

My mare (6 year old ex-racer) is going rather nicely in her three paces now (needs some work on upward transitions still) and we have started working on sideways movement. I've started it in my lessons and do understand the principle of the aids etc and she does understand moving away from pressure (although maybe this needs more work in general). But we are struggling to be consistent with it. Some days she accepts the leg aid and moves over although the steps are small and other days she will be resistant and bring her head up and back off all aids. She's better in walk, we tend to lose it in trot a bit. We have tried in a circle which she does tend to be better at, straight lines can be tricky.

Does anyone have any tips for how to improve this - anything from more clear aids to maybe groundwork exercises for lateral movement?

She can generally be a bit resistant to leg aids when she decides to be, which may not be helping. I mean mostly she is fine and nicely off the leg but for instance she can decide upon coming back from canter into trot that she then doesn't want to trot forwards and backs off and raises her head. A small circle will focus her mind and we then continue forwards nicely. She can be the same in upwards transitions from walk to trot, particularly at the start of the session, she just says no and backs right off, again a circle usually works and off we go. Once through the little nark she moves nicely forward from the leg into a contact. Tends to resist the leg in upward transitions to canter too, but once into canter is fine. So maybe some tips on getting her to accept my leg better when asking for transitions would also be beneficial. Just lots and lots of transitions? Or back up with schooling whip if not listening to first leg aid? She does raise her head through transitions especially into canter. She accepts the leg nicely when asking for bend.

Any thoughts?

 

[eggs]

A good tip I picked up when teaching leg yield is to ride from approximately 'C' to either 'B' or 'E' depending which rein you are on - in other words a diagonal line - and leg yield to the side of the school whilst following this diagonal line. Most horses seems to find this easier to start with than being parallel to the long side. I was taught that if I was on the right rein and wanted the horse to let yield towards the left to have more weight on my right seat bone but I have found that some horses seems to find it more understandable to have more weight on the left seat bone so it might be a case of trial and error.

I find it best to achieve a few good quality steps concentrating on keeping the forwardness and rhythm rather than worrying about getting all the way across the school.

This website gives a good explanation of how to ride leg yield

https://dressagetoday.com/instruction/how-to-ride-first-level-leg-yields-53622

 

[milliepops]

yes was going to suggest the diagonal line that eggs mentioned, often if they get stuck when learning to LY it's either because they have curled the neck to the inside and fallen onto the outside shoulder, or the quarters are leading and so riding that diagonal line makes the rider stay in control of the front end and allows the quarters to slightly follow - deliberately. You can make it more parallel when she gets more established.

My latest project has found it easier to learn shoulder-in first so I alternate a line of S-in with a line of LY as that helps to develop the outside rein connection and her response to my inside leg. I tend to keep myself central in the saddle rather than weighting either seatbone but that's just the way my horse has learnt -I def weight the inside for S-in and find it makes a vast difference.

I would go for a smaller degree of sideways in a more correct way, rather than lots of sideways with her going against your aids at this stage, think of it as needing to develop the response and suppleness rather than being disappointed at only being able to do shallow LYs.

I also find they react better to continuous pulsing aids rather than clamping the leg on so make sure you aren't giving her a long dull aid that she's just stiffening against.

 

[DabDab]

All of the above, plus just to pick up on MP's comment about the seat aids - with baby horses I tend to try to avoid using seat aids for leg yield because I think their can be a tendency on the rider's part to collapse through the inside hip and tense up the inside leg in an effort to sort of shove them sideways with your body. So I make it really simple, I'm just after a reaction to an application of pressure from my inside leg.

You can also do some pre-emptive work from the ground before you get on, applying pressure with your fingers where your leg would when riding. Make sure you are super consistent and always get something like the reaction you were after.

 

[Akkalia1]

Thank you very much

I was getting a bit confused with seat aids. I was weighting the inside seat bone but then read conflicting advice. Some saying that was correct - horse moves away from the pressure, but then other advice saying to wait the outside seat bone so the horse had room to move the inside over?? So maybe weighting neither is better for now and concentrate on getting her consistently moving away from my leg.

I shall try the diagonal line. I tend to use a sort of lightly vibrating leg or yes pulsing. If i clamp she resists more. The problem is I do find myself doing this when she's not listening to my pulsing aid which doesn't help and does indeed cause me to collapse my inside hip.

If she's not listening to my aids I'm not sure what to do - just carry on down the line trying or maybe circle and re-set and try again?

 

[milliepops]

If she's not listening then she's likely to be either blocking you or not understanding. Only you can assess which it is - is she reluctant to go sideways because she's not supple enough or you haven't set her up well enough (or just because it's hard and she can get away with ignoring you ) in which case you need to help her a bit more/make it clear that she has to *try*

Or does she not really understand the question well enough? In which case go back a step and make sure she gets the idea that there is a leg aid that you give that means she has to go sideways rather than faster. I find quarter turns of turn on the forehand is quite a good way to install that reaction, I don't ride TOF much after they have learnt it but because you aren't also "going somewhere" at the time of asking for the step sideways, they seem to cotton on faster than starting with a LY. Be clear that you reward every little attempt while she's gaining confidence
I ride quarter turns on a square, so you can refresh the straight line-forward response on the sides and then keep repeating a mini TOF.

 

[Horsekaren]

I am doing lots of leg yielding in my lessons at the moment. Both myself and my horse really struggled at first, he would ignore not understand my leg aids and would just get in a bit of a pickle.
We have now sussed it and the key has been to yield and then get him straight, 3 - 4 steps of yield, then 4 steps straight, we can now got from the center line back to the fence and vice-versa and yield 2 steps right, one straight and then 2 steps left. The asking of the straightness so often made it easier for him to understand what i want when i ask for a yield.
Not sure if that is any help but its helped me tonnes but i'm very green ... i didn't really know what a yield was until about 4 months ago at the grand old age of 29

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I find that horses respond best when they see the need for a movement, so I would LY round a puddle or similar obstruction on a hack. I also like to use cones etc in the school, until the horse understands what is required.

 

[JFTDWS]

I teach horses to full pass in hand, then under saddle. This usually flags up if there is a physical restraint on their movement, and ingrains the concept of "sideways, from the leg". Forward movement can be combined more intuitively to give a true (and correct) leg yield.

This is, in a lot of ways, the opposite of MP's suggestion that you go for less movement of a higher quality. I sometimes think when installing an idea into the horse, it can be useful to go for less quality but a more obvious or sustained movement. It depends hugely on the attitude of the horse, how the individual horse learns best and, probably, the nature of the rider too. Obviously there are caveats to that - it doesn't work for everything, and you should never be asking for more (movement, or quality) than the horse is capable of giving at that moment.


eta - I agree with PS about motivation - using gates, obstacles etc is useful for both full pass and leg yield.

 

[milliepops]

This is, in a lot of ways, the opposite of MP's suggestion that you go for less movement of a higher quality.
.

well, yes and no - I suggested that in response to the OP where it was suggested that the horse got backward thinking, resistant and against the hand, but not that it didn't understand the LY aids. Hence trying not to lose the general way of going while adding in some sideways.
I totally agree that I'd throw quality out of the window if the horse doesn't understand the question full stop Quality is a bit irrelevant then!

 

[JFTDWS]

well, yes and no - I suggested that in response to the OP where it was suggested that the horse got backward thinking, resistant and against the hand, but not that it didn't understand the LY aids. Hence trying not to lose the general way of going while adding in some sideways.
I totally agree that I'd throw quality out of the window if the horse doesn't understand the question full stop Quality is a bit irrelevant then!

Well my point was that it's taking the opposite approach to solve the same problem (a horse which is reluctant - for reasons which are unclear without seeing it - to display lateral suppleness). More than one way to skin a cat and all that!

 

[milliepops]

indeedy

 

[daffy44]

I teach leg yield to a lot of people, and far and away the biggest problem is people overthinking it. To begin with I wouldnt worry about the weight aids, its not a complicated movement, all you really need to start is the feeling that your horse understands moving away from your leg rather than just understanding the leg as a forward aid. So begin by making sure you have moved your leg back enough so the horse understands this is a different aid, I start as simply as possible by leg yielding from the three quarter line to the track in walk, your inside leg moves back and asks the horse to step across, the outside hand and leg control how much sideways you get and prevent the biggest leg yield fault which is falling out through the outside shoulder.

So keep the horses neck straight and ensure that the inside hind leg steps under the body, once you can do this then you can refine it, do it in different places etc, etc, but to start with just really cement the understanding of stepping away from your leg. Personally I teach a pretty rough version of this to just backed youngsters as soon as they understand leg means go, you will struggle to ride a good circle if the horse doesnt understand to bend around your leg rather than fall through it.

 

[Mule]

Before practicing leg yield refresh your sideways aids by doing turn on the forehand.

Also hold his neck straight so he doesn't drift sideways rather than cross over.

 

[Akkalia1]

Thank you for all these tips. I think I'm going to do some in hand work first and cement the moving away from pressure thing. I think I do very much overthink it and I get all tense which doesn't help the horse.

Well my point was that it's taking the opposite approach to solve the same problem (a horse which is reluctant - for reasons which are unclear without seeing it - to display lateral suppleness). More than one way to skin a cat and all that!

I meant to also quote milliepops here about the reasons for being resistant etc. I'm not totally sure why. She's generally fairly supple now and has nice loose movement but I suspect there is an element of her finding it hard work. She's also not been straightforward in just about every aspect of her training since coming off the track so sometimes it's hard to work out why she's doing something. But I think it'll also be a combination of her just being a bit opinionated and me not being refined/consistent enough, I'm sort of learning too. So I think I'll go back to a bit of groundwork then put all these tips into practice back in the saddle.

I'll try and get a video up of her general way of going.