Teaching qualifications

[ILuvCowparsely]

Well none of that is on the syllabus for s3 which requires only SJ to a metre and XC to 90cm, so I'd say your experiences are completely irrelevant to my point - you might wish to read the syllabus for the current s3 before calling "rubbish" on something you clearly aren't familiar with in its current form. The flatwork syllabus for s3 is, to my mind, incredibly basic.

FWIW, I used to jump down bounce grids taking my jacket off and hanging on the fence, then picking it up and putting it back on the other way. I don't think wee tricks like that are remotely relevant to teaching skills.

So you think the course is ONLY up to what is demanded and nothing more???? That would be funny if I had not lived through 18 months going through what I did.

Whether the s3 syllabus has changed since I did mine way before you were born clearly or what is in it is now not all you do in your training, your trick as you call it was one of the first things we did it is the easiest to do.


So your argument is based on what is written down not what the BHS training school teach you. it is pointless discussing this in a remotely intelligent way, you at your young age have clearly made your little mind up that the BHS is a waste of time and resources.

Since you have no idea what it is like to be in the BHS system of training and are basing it on what you read instead of living it and I am sure other BHS in training and already working will have a different opinion than your narrow view. Lets see if any other BHS trainers think their qualifications are worth nothing

 

[Tnavas]

OMG!!!! what rubbish!!!!! Our horses at Park farm were far from plods, some were x race horses which would bolt, AND we had to jump courses of 3.9 and above and cross country without saddles also jump over a grid crossing our stirrups and un crossing as we went through ther 8 jumps. One of the worst was going though the grid without a saddle and touching the toes throughout, very easy to judge when you have not ever been trained on the BHS course you do not know the half f what we have been through

I did my teaching exam at Park Farm

And HGA-12 those people who failed would have had far more things wrong than just one - their overall marks would have been too low to allow them to pass. The things you mentioned would just have been the straw that broke the camels back.

 

[Tnavas]

Depends on examiner and what mistake(s) it is

one girl on our course failed as
she failed not noticing another candidate put brushing boots on back to front and she stood behind to brush the tail and also knelt down.

I am with you though if I was a parent I would not want to send my child or family memember to someone and pay them good money if they have no knowledge to back it up. Some say it means nothing but it means you can get a job as a proper qualified teacher at a riding school or otherwise, as you see many establishments asking for AI or above. You never see them say * wanted * unknown person with no reference of being qualified to come to our riding school and teach.

Not sure how it is in NZ Tnavas but our BHS also taught you some first aid, well did in my time. How does it work over there if say someone who is not qualified to teach does teach etc, how do they get insurance etc. I mean surely the insurance company want to know the person they are insuraing is capable of the job.

I am BHS & ABRS Qualified -- NZ really has only a rudamentary teaching exam system in place

 

[Mooseontheloose]

Both my offspring have BHS, Pony Club and other qualifications and have always had employment. They have walked into jobs in several different countries and have had no problem with work permits because of them.
If you want to travel and experience other places, environments and jobs then I seriously recommend getting proper qualifications.
As I said earlier, I did my coaching certificates quite late in life and felt it helped enormously to develop self appraisal skills. I'm also an assessor for a training provider and a lot of our training is to give good feedback so that the learner can go away and help themselves, to develop our teaching skills (we have twice yearly observations of our teaching), and training to teach people with special learning needs, autism, dyslexia, dyspraxia, and so on, and to recognise these needs if they have been undiagnosed, so each learner gets the right help.
When I see an instructor standing there shouting 'legs legs legs, sit up, sit down, sit back' as a rider is approaching a large cross country fence I cringe. And that's from an Olympic rider! Not really the way to get the point across.

 

[be positive]

So you think the course is ONLY up to what is demanded and nothing more???? That would be funny if I had not lived through 18 months going through what I did.

Whether the s3 syllabus has changed since I did mine way before you were born clearly or what is in it is now not all you do in your training, your trick as you call it was one of the first things we did it is the easiest to do.


So your argument is based on what is written down not what the BHS training school teach you. it is pointless discussing this in a remotely intelligent way, you at your young age have clearly made your little mind up that the BHS is a waste of time and resources.

Since you have no idea what it is like to be in the BHS system of training and are basing it on what you read instead of living it and I am sure other BHS in training and already working will have a different opinion than your narrow view. Lets see if any other BHS trainers think their qualifications are worth nothing

There is a vast difference between going through a WP or apprenticeship type of training, which is what you did, what I did and many of us on here that are of a different generation went through during our training in order to get started and what is now on offer to students, many will go from stage 1 up to stage 3 while in college, health and safety being at the forefront of the instructors minds nowadays the horses do tend to be ultra safe, the courses geared towards passing on the day not making riders that can ride and cope with tricky situations, most will, unless they have their own horses, have no experience competing other than within the confines of the college, will have never ridden a young or green horse and many may have barely ridden outside of an arena.

I do still value the BHS system, it is consistent, it is assessed by outside examiners and is still an exam that you can fail on the day, unlike many that people take in other walks of life, it is a good starting point along with PC tests and ABRS exams but once you are qualified to BHSAI it is not the end of your learning it is only one step along the way, you can stay in the system going up through to the fellowship or as most of us do we go in different directions, continuing to gain experience and keep our minds open there are many many avenues you can take.
It is how much you pick up along the way that is going to make you a good instructor/ trainer not what you learnt many years ago while training, that was the foundation you build on not the end result and I think that is what JFTD is trying to get across, she wants an instructor that draws on experience, has had success in whatever field they are in, they also need the ability to articulate, teach and work with clients, having a closed mind will not get anyone very far with horses, I think you learn something new every day if you work with them and listen to them.

 

[Mooseontheloose]

Of course, and that is why registered instructors and coaches have to do regular CPD, to ensure that they do stay up to date.
The worst thing is a closed mind though, and to tar all coaches with the same brush eg 'I wouldn't use a BHSAI' is as closed as 'I would only use a BHSAI'.
But I think it's quite offensive to rubbish the people who have taken the trouble, time money and effort - and maybe student loan - to gain a start on the ladder.
In the end it will come down to money, and good instructors will never be short of work, however they got there.

 

[Roxylola]

I did my teaching exam at Park Farm

And HGA-12 those people who failed would have had far more things wrong than just one - their overall marks would have been too low to allow them to pass. The things you mentioned would just have been the straw that broke the camels back.

Not totally true, my stage two care was spot on, I failed on health and safety with the lunging (back in the days when lunging was lumped in with care). The overall mark was fine. I got in a knot with my lunge line and the one thing that will fail you no matter how good your overall mark is health and safety. If you make an error that is deemed to be unsafe you will fail. Mine was continuing to lunge while sorting out my line. Spent far too much time lunging hot horses who needed to get out and get going, I could sort out my line without incident but it is not "safe technique"

 

[JFTDWS]

So you think the course is ONLY up to what is demanded and nothing more???? That would be funny if I had not lived through 18 months going through what I did.

Whether the s3 syllabus has changed since I did mine way before you were born clearly or what is in it is now not all you do in your training, your trick as you call it was one of the first things we did it is the easiest to do.


So your argument is based on what is written down not what the BHS training school teach you. it is pointless discussing this in a remotely intelligent way, you at your young age have clearly made your little mind up that the BHS is a waste of time and resources.

Since you have no idea what it is like to be in the BHS system of training and are basing it on what you read instead of living it and I am sure other BHS in training and already working will have a different opinion than your narrow view. Lets see if any other BHS trainers think their qualifications are worth nothing

Are you ok, HGA? You seem ridiculously wound up about something which really doesn't affect you. It's not like I would ever be seeking training from you anyway - I've seen the nonsense you post on here.

I'll ignore your ageist nonsense, but I'm probably not as young as you think I am, and I'm certainly not as ignorant of the BHS training system. You seem unaware that you do not need to do any course - such as the one you took - to sit (or pass) your stages. So the syllabus may well be (and is) all that some BHSAIs have been trained to do.

My point about tricks is just that - they are parlour tricks which show only a degree of balance of a rider on a trained horse. They don't teach the horse anything, they're just for show - I don't see why they're an asset to trainer, outside of the circus.

As for your view of my "little" mind and my narrow viewpoint - I haven't dismissed people who have BHS training in addition to actual skill (Arctic Fox's cruising through her exams is case and point there), but you have dismissed everybody who has trained through classical systems, everybody who doesn't fit into the BHS's idea of horsemanship is about.

As for an intelligent discussion, one of the primary tenets of that is not resorting to ad hominem attacks. If you can observe basic etiquette, perhaps you'll manage one.

 

[ester]

Reading HGA's post makes it sound like there is just one bhs training school not a plethora of often substandard riding schools with single working pupils and colleges turning people out to just pass what is on the syllabus for the exam. My current instructor is an fbhs, he is doing his ukcc stuff too (not sure why, he must think there is some benefit) but I have also had fab times with instructors with no qualifiactions at all or never got round to asking.

My local RS/where I spent my formative years is run by someone who has their PC H test, less said about that the better but options were limited . Their second instructor now has most of her 3 at least. I don't think the BHS is all bad but am pleased there are now some alternative options too.

 

[ester]

There is also a lack of basic horsecare training in many areas. How many horses are broken by lack of knowledge of basic fittening, balance, competition care?

See I never really understand this, I have never had any formal training on any horse care but none of it is rocket science and I read a lot (and then have a sympathetic beast to try things out on!)
My friend has an AI, she did it while doing A levels and is really a scientist for big pharma, I gave her a shoulder in lesson the other day .

 

[JFTDWS]

My friend has an AI, she did it while doing A levels and is really a scientist for big pharma, I gave her a shoulder in lesson the other day .

I gave my BHS-trained mate who's really a scientist a lesson in SI, travers and HP recently too

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

Are you ok, HGA? You seem ridiculously wound up about something which really doesn't affect you. It's not like I would ever be seeking training from you anyway - I've seen the nonsense you post on here.

I'll ignore your ageist nonsense, but I'm probably not as young as you think I am, and I'm certainly not as ignorant of the BHS training system. You seem unaware that you do not need to do any course - such as the one you took - to sit (or pass) your stages. So the syllabus may well be (and is) all that some BHSAIs have been trained to do.

My point about tricks is just that - they are parlour tricks which show only a degree of balance of a rider on a trained horse. They don't teach the horse anything, they're just for show - I don't see why they're an asset to trainer, outside of the circus.

As for your view of my "little" mind and my narrow viewpoint - I haven't dismissed people who have BHS training in addition to actual skill (Arctic Fox's cruising through her exams is case and point there), but you have dismissed everybody who has trained through classical systems, everybody who doesn't fit into the BHS's idea of horsemanship is about.

As for an intelligent discussion, one of the primary tenets of that is not resorting to ad hominem attacks. If you can observe basic etiquette, perhaps you'll manage one.

Can you actually say anything nice or do you always have to make snide comments at members being bitchy and rude???


Doesn't effect me calling BHS qualified people inc me *any numpty*?? how do you work that out. What would you think if people started critising your riding position from your photos.? All we can do is teach beginners and nervous people!!!! what sort of reaction did you expect or does your potrail of an AI and dissing it come so naturaly your not aware some people may take offence to you calling them a numpty and no good for teaching anyone over a beginner level??

I was about to quote my comment which when looking back is on another thread oaf, about except those at eventing/high competing level traning people, which in that thread I said would in my opinion is acceptable to teach. As is a dressage trainer round here who competes for the Uk but has no qualifications to speak of but she teaches high level and passes on her traning through this.


Making comments like this

One of my trainers has no qualifications.

Any numpty who can sit on a horse fairly sensibly can become an AI with enough effort, in my experience. Many of the AIs round here are super for teaching little kids to play ponies, or nervous adults, but wouldn't know where to start with real work - which is fine for most as they market themselves appropriately.




I'd personally rather someone who has a competitive record or who has a training record worthy of note to try them out. If they can't teach well too, I just won't return!

Is IMO disrespecting any qualified trainer who is brilliant and well respected at all levels of their training. Your comment came across that any tom dick or harry can pass and the AI is easy peasy, which I cannot comment on what is involved now but in my day of passing 1981 was actually very strict loads involved. So understand those who have forked out a lot of money - time and hours qualifying, reads a post which makes the AI look a push over and they should not be proud to have achieved it at the end as it is no big deal.

Just for the record before I started my stage 4 we had to teach a lot of dressage movent to client inc shoulder in half pass turn on the fore hand and more.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

Reading HGA's post makes it sound like there is just one bhs training school not a plethora of often substandard riding schools with single working pupils and colleges turning people out to just pass what is on the syllabus for the exam. My current instructor is an fbhs, he is doing his ukcc stuff too (not sure why, he must think there is some benefit) but I have also had fab times with instructors with no qualifiactions at all or never got round to asking.

My local RS/where I spent my formative years is run by someone who has their PC H test, less said about that the better but options were limited . Their second instructor now has most of her 3 at least. I don't think the BHS is all bad but am pleased there are now some alternative options too.

Well obviously there are many training schools all over the country and I will not comment on a place I neither trained at or visited, so I speak on what I know and expeerianced first hand

 

[ester]

But most of the BHSAI qualifiers are unlikely to have attended them, I am really unaware of the concept of a 'training school' as you describe it.
I'm pretty certain that a quick read through the books to make sure I knew the right (including the incorrect - I still think I would have to give the right answers on the genetics of colour though not what the BHS thinks!) answers I could do my AI pretty swiftly, I agree with JFTD that the requirements are pretty minimal. and yes we are talking about now, as the OP is asking about it now not what she would have had to do in 1981 . Although granted my mother failed hers so I imagine it has gotten easier in time. I don't rate anyone who has an AI without anything else to back it up, I am yet to meet one I have thought is good though I am sure there may be a few out there.

 

[JustMe22]

OMG!!!! what rubbish!!!!! Our horses at Park farm were far from plods, some were x race horses which would bolt, AND we had to jump courses of 3.9 and above and cross country without saddles also jump over a grid crossing our stirrups and un crossing as we went through ther 8 jumps. One of the worst was going though the grid without a saddle and touching the toes throughout, very easy to judge when you have not ever been trained on the BHS course you do not know the half f what we have been through

I did my teaching exam at Park Farm

And HGA-12 those people who failed would have had far more things wrong than just one - their overall marks would have been too low to allow them to pass. The things you mentioned would just have been the straw that broke the camels back.

I have nothing to add to this discussion except. ..do you mean park farm in West bergholt? I learned to ride there as a kid before we moved to south Africa or anything.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

But most of the BHSAI qualifiers are unlikely to have attended them, I am really unaware of the concept of a 'training school' as you describe it.
I'm pretty certain that a quick read through the books to make sure I knew the right (including the incorrect - I still think I would have to give the right answers on the genetics of colour though not what the BHS thinks!) answers I could do my AI pretty swiftly, I agree with JFTD that the requirements are pretty minimal. and yes we are talking about now, as the OP is asking about it now not what she would have had to do in 1981 . Although granted my mother failed hers so I imagine it has gotten easier in time. I don't rate anyone who has an AI without anything else to back it up, I am yet to meet one I have thought is good though I am sure there may be a few out there.

That is maybe the problem now, it may be easier to pass, and maybe new AI candidates are not as thoroughly trained as in the past, but you should not tar everyone with the same brush. Same like any trader be it painter or plumber. Obviously there are some out there who are not or should not be practising, but like Tanvas our training school was very well respected in those days and passing there always held you in stance as a reference for a job.

Like anything including driving test they are easy to pass now

OP don't let this thread upset you, if you get the AI you will be respected and be able to make a career out of training or teaching.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

I have nothing to add to this discussion except. ..do you mean park farm in West bergholt? I learned to ride there as a kid before we moved to south Africa or anything.

Near Manningtree you mean???



No Park Farm DucksHill Road in Northwood which sadly is no longer there, amazing huge place by Mount Vernon Hospital. William old owned it http://www.companieslist.co.uk/01885118-william-old-building-limited. They held the Everest Double Glazing championships and more. I still remember Ted Edgard - Caroline Bradly - David Broom and more standing on my feet at the dance after the event had finsihed for the staff and working pupils.

 

[Mooseontheloose]

I think there seems to be an essential misunderstanding on here.
What do you want your qualifications for? Is it so you can progress through the levels, update your qualifications, learn how to teach as well as to ride, keep up to date with industry standards, be employable in many countries especially USA, be on a professional register with it's subsequent insurance cover, and by dint of getting your II or your I becoming an examiner, assessor, or other training jobs within the industry then you need to go the industry route.
If all you want to do is instruct, then as someone said very early on you get your insurance and away you go. Your results will tell you how good you are.
The other thing to think about is that freelance teaching is great fun, but get a bad winter, outbreak of strangles or fall out with a couple of clients and you're income will be dropped through the floor. That is the time when it's useful to have other strings to your bow, lecturing at a college, examining, teaching in a riding school and so on.
I honestly don't think the rudeness that has developed on this thread is necessary.
I think it's madness to teach uninsured these days, and I think a basic coaching certificate, AI or similar is the way forward.
Just looking at the BE Master Coaches list, virtually all of them have recognised qualifications, mainly BHS - they've taken the time to do it, and they're all pretty damn good. It must show sometthing. And you can't progress to II or I or even FBHS until you've started on the bottom rung of the ladder.
Good luck to people who take the trouble, time, money and effort to learn the basics. There's otherwise rather a lack of it about.

 

[Tnavas]

See I never really understand this, I have never had any formal training on any horse care but none of it is rocket science and I read a lot (and then have a sympathetic beast to try things out on!)
My friend has an AI, she did it while doing A levels and is really a scientist for big pharma, I gave her a shoulder in lesson the other day .

Ester - it has been Internationally recognised that the horse management care of many horses, competing at top level is sub standard - too much focus is on riding and too little on the care of the horse.

One of the biggest battles I have with Pony Club members is studying horse care - many are just not interested, all they want to do is ride - you only have to listen to their poor horses coming back off the cross country phase - Their horses are the ones that suffer because they can't recognise problems, can't fit tack correctly, don't understand how it works & are incapable of putting on a bandage properly. If they are interested then yes a lot can be learned from books, sadly many are not interested

As far as sub standard riding schools go yes there are many sub standard ones around - thats where the BHS exams weed out the poorly trained - sadly for the person that had put their trust in the school. The training they now receive at colleges is much more diverse than in the past when places like Park Farm, Radnage House, Suzzannes, Patchetts, Porlock, Catherston Stud, Fulmer, Crabbet & Talland were the best centres to train in - but even within these centres there were problems - all theoretical and little practical - I remember a young rider who had trained at one of these centres asking me how did she actually make a Kaolin poultice - she had it all written down but had never been allowed near an injured horse to put her training in to practise.

I was lucky I trained with a FBHS who was at the time also the BHS Chief Examiner.

Today I had a lovely time examining two groups of Pony Club kids D+ & C and getting the best HM answers I've heard in a long while. I also have an enthusiastic group of B level riders studying for their HM - the first at this level for many years.

Having managed a large riding school for a decade I found that the best instructors I had were the BHS qualified ones - because they taught - I generally found that those with no qualifications just gave instructions - such as "canter in the next corner" - the BHS coaches on the other hand would teach how to canter in the next corner.

Finally as HGA-12 pointed out - THE BHS exams opened the world to us - I got my residency in NZ on my BHS & ABRS qualifications.

 

[Tnavas]

I have nothing to add to this discussion except. ..do you mean park farm in West bergholt? I learned to ride there as a kid before we moved to south Africa or anything.

Park Farm in Northwood, UK - a top level training centre.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

Park Farm in Northwood, UK - a top level training centre.

You know Park farm has a facebook page

 

[FfionWinnie]

Personally I've always found UKCC instructors more my thing than BHS. The ones I use anyway, seem to be pro riders who have got the UKCC quals to be able to teach.

 

[Mooseontheloose]

It's more based at coaching and possibly more relevant to those who have passed the first stage of learning, whereas at PTT you have to be able to do a lunge lesson and possibly a lead rein lesson, which I've never had to do through UKCC, it also doesn't have much of a care side to it.
I enjoyed doing it and felt it helped my coaching, but they're not exactly like for like.

 

[Goldenstar]

I had BHS training when I started off .
It's a long time ago so it probably a different world now but I was trained to teach position and still can if I ever felt the need .
And that's what a trained trainer has over many riders turned trainers there's an epidemic of people teaching who don't correct the riders position perhaps because they have never been trained how to do it .

 

[Tnavas]

Personally I've always found UKCC instructors more my thing than BHS. The ones I use anyway, seem to be pro riders who have got the UKCC quals to be able to teach.

Remember that the UKCC qualifications are relatively new! The BHS exams have been around since the 1950's and have proved themselves worldwide. Riders would come from all corners of the earth to study for the exams. When I did my AI there was only the AI & I, no Intermediate. The standard required to pass was far higher than that required now, it dropped when the II was introduced and again when the PTT was introduced. They were the equestrians gateway to the world.

I had BHS training when I started off .
It's a long time ago so it probably a different world now but I was trained to teach position and still can if I ever felt the need .
And that's what a trained trainer has over many riders turned trainers there's an epidemic of people teaching who don't correct the riders position perhaps because they have never been trained how to do it .

Position is everything, regardless of the level of rider. Correct position means a well balanced rider more able to apply the aids effectively. I was lucky with my school ponies and horses, they were chosen carefully, forward, free moving and well schooled. This allowed the riders to sit correctly and apply the aids correctly and to get the desired result.

How can anyone learn to sit well, in balance if they are thumping the horses sides with every stride.

Once my riders were competent enough they got to ride the new ponies and horses - horses being TB's off the track. The owner of the school was an ex jockey with brothers still training horses so we had a never ending supply of track failures!

 

[FfionWinnie]

I know they are new and I see that as a benefit. I like forward thinking people not people who've done things like this for 50 years so will continue like this regardless.

 

[Goldenstar]

I know they are new and I see that as a benefit. I like forward thinking people not people who've done things like this for 50 years so will continue like this regardless.

I don't think you can say that any one type of trainer will be forward thinking or otherwise .
The most off the wall open minded trainer I have ever worked with is an FBHS .

 

[Tnavas]

I know they are new and I see that as a benefit. I like forward thinking people not people who've done things like this for 50 years so will continue like this regardless.

Oh Dear! If its not broke - why try to fix it - lets consider Carl Hester and Charlotte Dujardan - both classical riders of the old school!

So do we have a new way to teach riders? - has the basic position of riders changed? Over the years I've noticed a big change in the attitude and manner of riders - At one time riders listened, co-operated and tried what their coach had suggested. WE now have to deal with spoilt, arrogant brats who think they know it all. Recently one of pony club members answered back to the coach - a one time member of the NZ team, the same child told one of her coaches she didn't know what she was talking about - child is 13 - coach has ridden Badmintona couple of times.

Forward thinking does not have to be outside of the classical - a horse well schooled classically as in Spanish Riding School (the bases of BHS teachings) is a dream to ride. No force needed, no aggressive aids.


Personally I find many of the modern riders very rough, untidy and lacking in fineness. Getting over the jump by any means outweighs the horses comfort, a well balanced rider sitting tight and quiet is far nicer for the horse to cope with.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

Personally I find many of the modern riders very rough, untidy and lacking in fineness. Getting over the jump by any means outweighs the horses comfort, a well balanced rider sitting tight and quiet is far nicer for the horse to cope with.

Also more pleasing to the eye and spectators

 

[ester]

It might be the internationally recognised standard but some of it is lagging way behind current research and understanding. And that is before we even get started on the colours page in their instruction book yet they also say 'Describe coat colour using the correct terminology' you can bet I'd use correct terminology, yet it would disagree with half of theirs!
I mean seriously, where do you start correcting this! I can understand keeping it simple at this level but at least keep the simple bits correct.

And I am not tarring everyone with the same brush, I am saying that none of the AIs I know that make a living out of teaching are actually good enough themselves/understand things to actually teach.

The RS I speak of with minimally qualified instructors got my friend to AI as a working pupil, she was taught mostly by someone who only had a pony club H test and no competition record/experience so (much as I love my friend) the quality of her teaching will always be limited yet she got her AI first time, so IME BHS exams are not weeding out the poorly trained.

I had no choice but to be interested in the management side of things, no pony of own so a lot of time spent reading partly my Mum's old books (they were funny even back then!) and magazines, we didn't even have the internet to learn stuff from either. That was my pony fix