Teaching the older horse manners on the ground? Confusing issue!

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Sunny08

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My new mare is an absolutely lovely horse but she has some bad habits on the ground. She is 16.3hh, Dutch Warmblood, 11yr old. These are my issues:
When I tie her up she won't stand still for grooming
When tied up picking her feet out she will try and walk off
When holding her in reins she won't stand and tries to rub her head on you

Silly and confusing thing is, if I pick her feet out in the field, rug her, etc and she is not tied up she will stand happily!

She is not nasty by any means, she is actually very, very sweet, but it is like she says 'oh I'm bored now I want to do this'. I make sure we have a clear routine each day. I will always pick her feet back up if she snatches it off me and hold it until I choose to put it down. If she moves over when I'm grooming, I move her back and say stand.

Any other tips in teaching her some better ground manners?
 
maybe a sharp hard smack! she is old enough to know better, and you know she can do it. establish your boundaries and control before it becomes a bigger isue. reward with a pat when good. maybe a very occasional treat when finished doing feet/grooming. find her itchy spot that is a god reward too! often her armpit, or between her back legs (the places she cant reach!)
 
When she's being a good girl, tell her she's a good girl? And "NO" when she's not being good. I think absolute consistency and she hopefully will pick it up and go along with your wishes.
 
I agree with a lot of the above. One of the liveries on my last yard bought a 17.2hh project horse she was very frightened of.

Whenever I tied him up he was praised as long as he didn't move. As soon as he did he was told of, then moved back to exactly the spot he had started. So he learned he's wasn't getting any where.

I agree with LaurenM, consistency is very important with issues like this.
Might be worth stay stand every time to ask her to so she learns to asociate it with standing.

If she is rubbing on you in her bridle just give her a bit of a jerk the reins to get her from rubbing on you.

Once she learns what you are asking her to do tied up do the same when you have her bridle on.

Is she the same when you lead her? Will she stop and wait if you stand?
 
My lad is 10 and more than knows how he should behave. We do have the odd slip and a firm smack does him no harm at all - he immediately looks at you knowing that he was wrong and suddenly his manners come flooding back. We have loads of kids on our yard so I will not stand for him fidgeting and being a pain when tied up!
 
To hit this mare is to assume that she should know better. Perhaps she doesn't, so how could anyone justify an aggressive approach to this problem?

Your mare must be taught to yield to any pressure from you. That pressure may have to be applied initially with a hand on certain parts of her body or, if you don't feel comfortable with being so close to her at first, you can use a short broom handle or something similar.

Stand to one side of the mare and, as she comes round into your space, push the blunt end of the stick firmly against her body just in front of the stifle,where the soft gut wall begins. She will lean against that pressure, so you must push the stick firmly and steadily against her weight. At some point, probably after five to ten seconds, she will yield away from your pressure, and you must immediately take the stick off her and praise her. When you do it again, her response should be more immediate and she should be praised again.

Now teach her the same on the other side.

Once she is responding immediately to the pressure of the stick, if you watch her eyes and her body as you raise the stick to use it as before, you will detect that she is inclined to yield before you make contact with the stick. That is your signal that you can begin to refine your cues for her to move away from you, by stepping in toward her as you raise the stick. By doing this, and raising your body posture as you do so, you can teach her to yield to you without your having to use the stick.

To begin with, you may have to use pressure from the stick a few times to let her understand that if she does not move away as you step in, you will back up your subtle cue with physical pressure.

When she has learned to yield her quarters thus, you can practice raising your body profile and stepping in toward her at the firsy sign of her coming round toward you. This will have the effect of stopping her coming round toward you. When she is yielding on both sides, you can use that to persuade her to stand still to be groomed. This is best done by applying the brush to her body when she is standing still, so that you are not getting into a physical wrestling match to groom her. Only when she is standing still will she be groomed. If she doesn't stand, she will be asked yield to pressure. She will soon want to stand to be groomed.

Once you have controlled her desire to swing her quarters around, it is a simple exercise to do the same with her shoulders to move her fore-end sideways and back and forward. When she can be moved around thus, and set up and 'parked' where you want her for grooming, she will develop a completely different attitude to you, and will be calm to groom and lift her feet and so on.

Put simply...if she faffs around, apply pressure to put her where you want her to be, and if she is good, get on with the grooming. No need for shouting or slapping. Just praise her when she is good, and move her around when she's not.

Hitting a horse which is tied up is not going to persuade it to be settled and compliant.
 
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I agree with Aengus Og, smacking them when they are tied up, doesn't actually teach them anything because they don't understand why they are being smacked. My new horse was a nuisance about being tied up and very difficult about her feet. In fact she had to be sedated to be shod. Of course the vendor lied about all this, but we now realise she is a young horse who has been left to her own devices a lot of the time. I have found that cross tying her, has worked wonders. She cannot move around so much when tied this way. She stands still. I can brush her - which she enjoys - and I can teach her to pick up her feet properly, with a struggle. It is basic obedience which filters down to all aspects of her handling.
 
- tie up for as short a period as possible
- give hay in bucket or similar to keep occupied
- put her back where you want her if she moves
- praise and fuss (or treat or whatever you know she likes) when she is still

For the rubbing that could be
- affectionate (but not in line with your boundaries)
- because something (flys/loose hair/tack) is itching

I would
- check nothing is too tight/loose/rubbing/pinching (e.g. sides of mouth can hurt if bit too high)
- then push head away from you so it is against your outstretched hands not your body and scratch it there
- if you offer to scratch (e.g. when untacking, always polite to when removing bridle) at a fixed time and do so in a way you are comfortable with it is great bonding without you feeling pushed around
- at other times just say no and push gently away if necessary.
 
Agree with Aengos Og (sorry hope I spelt that right?!); the whole issue here is respect & consistency, about being a good herd leader on the ground first and foremost. Think yourself into being a mare nipping untoward behaviour in the herd in the bud, but being firm and consistent about it, and rewarding good behaviour rather than punishing the bad.

As Michael Peace says "make the right thing easy". He's got some good stuff on his website so worth a look.

Also you might find an IH practitioner helpful? Just to get you off initially as the timing is absolutely vital and if you get this wrong then basically you're doing the horse no favours and might even make the whole thing worse. So professional advice at an early stage worth it IME.
 
mine is exactly like this!! no matter how many times he gets told off for it he learns one day and goes back the next! interested to read the suggestions on this one!
 
Firm consistent action from you, and it sounds as if you are already doing this.

I always say "Hold Up" when I pick up feet and mine gradually understand the command and I then reduce the command to a tap on the fetlock along with the verbal command.

Make sure you pick up the foot with confidence, and if possible don't let go if she tries to snatch away. Keep back feet low and under the line of the buttocks. Some horses find picking up their back feet uncomfortable. My mare has always been touchy about her near hind, and I've owned her since she was 6 months old, now 12yrs old.

Praise smartly when done correctly and a growly voice is often enough when not.

Check bridle for fit, especially size of browbands as if too short can be uncomfortable. No jerking the reins, there is a sensitive mouth at the end, but pushing her away with a growly no is suitable. Once bridle is off then get a small towel and rub the itchy spots.

In time she will get used to your commands and ways of working and will be good.
 
Personally I would regularly tie her up without going near her until she learns to stand. If I am tacking up I expect mine to stand stock still with no haynet. This is at home or at shows. They have adlib unrestricted hay the rest of the time. I also tie to a solid safe object without string.

Bump her with whatever body part she is trying to rub on.

Soft rope round her pastern to lift the foot and make her keep it up til you say - that could be 1 second to start with, but only put it down when she isn't carrying on.

I can hear at least half the forum shrieking but my horses are very happy, behave impeccably and calmly in all situations and are a joy to handle.
 
thankyou tnavas! I've only had him about a month and a half and he's 10 years old but walked all over his last owner and doesn't know the meaning no! also likes to use his strength against you he's 15.3hh and I'm only 5'4 so one turn of the head and he's knocked me off balance and Is walking off! -.-
 
thankyou for the advice FfionWinnie I have started walking off until he learns to stand still then going back when he's stood but lately because I haven't tied him up in around 2 days (hadn't needed to just left him to be a horse) he's gone backwards!
 
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