Teaching/training

[hock]

Opinions pls.

I’ve always done a bit of teaching on the side, just by word of mouth. I don’t have formal qualifications apart from some BHS Stage 2 I think. I would like to start doing more, my areas of experience would be nervous riders, problem horses, young horses etc and then lower level dressage upto elementary. I seem to have a knack of building confidence in riders, I absolutely love watching confidence grow. So next year (I’ve just missed this year) I will do the bd coaching course but I’m wondering how people feel about being taught by someone without a recognised qualification. It’s fine when it’s word of mouth because people know what they’re getting but to put it out there and advertise myself is another thing. Insurance is important of course and at home I have a (20 x 60 all weather arena and lots of room to turn around - most important bit I think lol) that’s insured for hire. I will ring them to discuss instruction etc but I want your opinions first as you’ve never let me down. So to be clear I want to get out and teach but also have people come to me. I know livery yards usually want to see proof of insurance etc. Also is anyone teaching without qualifications already? When I taught in the states we used to have to get clients to sign a waiver form even though we were insured. Cheers

 

[quiteniceforacob]

It depends. I have had excellent unqualified instructors and have learnt lots from them. However, they are out competing and getting results. Those who aren’t actively competing are doing all the relevant courses.

Not to say I wouldn’t be taught by an unqualified non-competer, but would need strong recommendations!

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Most people I have had lessons with over the years are unqualified and I've really benefited from them, I currently have lessons with a friend who has really helped me as I ride with her in between and she knows me and my horses.

Had some lesson with qualified people and they have been awful so just because you have the qualifications doesn't mean your any good.

I would see what response you get most of this kind of thing builds with word of mouth if your good.

 

[Red-1]

I don't think that either of the people I am currently having lessons with are qualified. They may be, I guess, but I haven't asked.

It isn't something I ask about TBH, and I am someone who is well qualified (BHS II or Level 4 Coach or whatever it is called now, UKCC Level 3 equestrian generic, 1st year of Cert Ed, A1 assessor, City and Guilds risk assessor, NLP Practitioner, DBS enhanced and 1st aid trained). I say all this as I have obviously bought into the exams system (I enjoy them!) yet don't value them when choosing a trainer.

I have seen plenty of cr@p trainers with those qualifications and more. I know a BHS I who I really wouldn't subject my horse to.

My current trainers are a Western based trainer and a Para rider Dressage trainer. I have a few ad-hock SJ lessons, no idea on qualifications there. All my trainers are great, they help BH and I achieve what we would like to. They are safe.

Some of the lesser BHS type trainers are unsafe, as they follow a plan, even if it isn't correct for that horse/rider on that day. I have witnessed accidents from these people sticking to their plan, many times. The trainers I have tend to come with no 'plan' as such. They assess in action and we agree what we would like to progress.

You do need to find trainer's insurance though, not just arena insurance.

When I taught I was always insured, I owe it to myself, my family and the people I taught. But again, I have never checked anyone else's insurance!

 

[LEC]

I have a HUGE issue with it.

I have gone back and forwards with BRC over this as they allow it, but ultimately it’s never been tested in a court of law. I run the training for our riding club area and I reiterate a lot that you need every box ticked because if I was on a lesson with a non qualified trainer and had life changing injuries I would go after the committee for being negligent in not using someone qualified and the trainer. It’s an easy win in a court of law.

It’s so easy to get qualifications now that I just don’t understand why people don’t. I got mine with 5 days of practical training and a portfolio which took me a few hours. It’s just IMO pure laziness that people do not get qualified. Anyone who is not invested in their coaching and being better isn’t worth having a lesson with.

I don’t use BHS coaches as a waste of time, but I am a strong user of UKCC3+. A lot of my coaching friends now have the 4 which is masters level. It has made them better coaches and IMO has been worth the investment and they were not exactly shabby before.

Ultimately, it’s up to the individual but having had a friend killed in a gridwork lesson jumping 80cm with a qualified trainer on a horse which knew it’s job… then it’s something I am really bothered about. In my role for RC area, I get everyone’s qualifications and insurance documents yearly. I check they are fully compliant with everything. It may seem overkill but I have seen the results from things going wrong.

Also, did people know that if you have lessons with someone who is a BS coach and their insurance is through BS then they are not allowed to teach xc. They won’t be covered.

 

[Red-1]

I have a HUGE issue with it.

I have gone back and forwards with BRC over this as they allow it, but ultimately it’s never been tested in a court of law. I run the training for our riding club area and I reiterate a lot that you need every box ticked because if I was on a lesson with a non qualified trainer and had life changing injuries I would go after the committee for being negligent in not using someone qualified and the trainer. It’s an easy win in a court of law.

It’s so easy to get qualifications now that I just don’t understand why people don’t. I got mine with 5 days of practical training and a portfolio which took me a few hours. It’s just IMO pure laziness that people do not get qualified. Anyone who is not invested in their coaching and being better isn’t worth having a lesson with.

I don’t use BHS coaches as a waste of time, but I am a strong user of UKCC3+. A lot of my coaching friends now have the 4 which is masters level. It has made them better coaches and IMO has been worth the investment and they were not exactly shabby before.

Ultimately, it’s up to the individual but having had a friend killed in a gridwork lesson jumping 80cm with a qualified trainer on a horse which knew it’s job… then it’s something I am really bothered about. In my role for RC area, I get everyone’s qualifications and insurance documents yearly. I check they are fully compliant with everything. It may seem overkill but I have seen the results from things going wrong.

Also, did people know that if you have lessons with someone who is a BS coach and their insurance is through BS then they are not allowed to teach xc. They won’t be covered.

That is strange. A few years ago the Pony Club wanted more trainers and they were prepared to take unqualified people and explained that they would be covered on the Pony Club insurance whilst teaching there. I was surprised.

 

[LEC]

That is strange. A few years ago the Pony Club wanted more trainers and they were prepared to take unqualified people and explained that they would be covered on the Pony Club insurance whilst teaching there. I was surprised.

Pony Club is a weird grey area. I started teaching at PC (though this is a very long time ago) because I had my PC B test and that was fine with no insurance as I was a PC member. They also start a lot of people on their coaching journey but I guess are teaching mainly up, down lessons, so risk is lower than screwing up a distance in a grid which then causes a broken neck.

With my pragmatic head on, their insurance has probably never been severely tested to find out. Though I would say PC is pretty risk adverse with activities and the kids tend to be fairly sensibly mounted or they are sent home.

The big issue with insurance companies is they are very grey until it gets tested and then suddenly everything changes. This is the point I make strongly with RC. Just because it’s fine and has been fine 99% of the time doesn’t mean that 1% isn’t going to be a huge calamity and you can protect yourself just by ticking boxes.
Trainer qualified
Trainer insured
Trainer first Aid trained
Trained does CPD
Venue safe
Participants have insurance/membership

RC allows externals to participate in lessons/comps but any lessons I run I want proof of 3rd party insurance if not RC members. I do not trust the insurance to stand up completely under pressure so by making sure everyone has insurance then I feel much happier about what I run.

I think we are overwhelmingly casual sometimes with things like lessons but I am hugely risk adverse with everything I run since friend was killed as seen worst case scenario in action.

 

[hock]

I personally don’t care if someone is qualified, it’s always reputation. But I didn’t think you could get insured for teaching unless you were qualified and I wouldn’t want to without insurance. The folks that go to experienced rather than qualified trainers are they insured? Do you check?

 

[hock]

I have a HUGE issue with it.

I have gone back and forwards with BRC over this as they allow it, but ultimately it’s never been tested in a court of law. I run the training for our riding club area and I reiterate a lot that you need every box ticked because if I was on a lesson with a non qualified trainer and had life changing injuries I would go after the committee for being negligent in not using someone qualified and the trainer. It’s an easy win in a court of law.

It’s so easy to get qualifications now that I just don’t understand why people don’t. I got mine with 5 days of practical training and a portfolio which took me a few hours. It’s just IMO pure laziness that people do not get qualified. Anyone who is not invested in their coaching and being better isn’t worth having a lesson with.

I don’t use BHS coaches as a waste of time, but I am a strong user of UKCC3+. A lot of my coaching friends now have the 4 which is masters level. It has made them better coaches and IMO has been worth the investment and they were not exactly shabby before.

Ultimately, it’s up to the individual but having had a friend killed in a gridwork lesson jumping 80cm with a qualified trainer on a horse which knew it’s job… then it’s something I am really bothered about. In my role for RC area, I get everyone’s qualifications and insurance documents yearly. I check they are fully compliant with everything. It may seem overkill but I have seen the results from things going wrong.

Also, did people know that if you have lessons with someone who is a BS coach and their insurance is through BS then they are not allowed to teach xc. They won’t be covered.

I understand this and if I was in your shoes I would 100% insist as you’re doing it on behalf of other riders. It’s just plain common sense!

 

[maya2008]

I would actively avoid someone with the standard BHS qualifications (too much bad experience to mention in one post!!). I would want full insurance though and to see some evidence of their knowledge in their competition record/everyday riding/recommendations from existing clients. For us, with kids on young ponies, I dream of finding someone who can adapt to the kids and who knows enough about young horses to be able to guide them. Someone who can see the differences in each pony and not teach each one the same. Not been that lucky so far, so I am stuck doing it myself!

For an everyday instructor, I would be far more impressed by someone who has taken ordinary horses out and succeeded at a modest level, than someone on all fancy purpose bred horses at a high level. Your experience needs to match your client base.

 

[teapot]

I err to being on the side of Lec, having been involved with employing people on a freelance basis for a decent size business. We wouldn't touch anyone without a specific level of qualification because in part, someone who's bothered to gone up the levels properly, and I don't mean just getting their Stage 3 coach (the old AI and stopping) meant they were actually invested in the training and learning process as a whole. Not to mention the fact they would have had to have done the proper first aid training, the safeguarding training, (and yes it matters for adults too), not to mention the CPD which imho needs to be a bigger requirement.

What first aid training do you have? What risk assessment documents do you have ready to go, what's your fall in your arena that needs an ambulance job plan etc etc. Plan for the absolute worst before you even consider advertising. As @LEC 's post proves, it is far more likely to go wrong at the lower levels. Are you covered if a horse does a leg from landing oddly on your surface? Do you the jump cups that you're always meant to use on back rails? It's those little things that will save you if it all goes tits up.

I would always take that view if I was looking for someone freelancer from a client point of view, but I completely get why people go for x competition results over qualifications. The problem is, as we've seen regularly on this forum when someone's had a lesson from a pro because they're a pro, to find it was a complete waste of money as they couldn't teach. There's a balance to be had I feel, but I'm lucky enough to have been trained by some impressive BHSIs, who have also been out successful competing affiliated across all three disciplines at the same time.

My biggest question to anyone who wants to coach, and coach well, is why wouldn't you invest in getting the recognised qualifications, and your own personal development?

 

[LEC]

I personally don’t care if someone is qualified, it’s always reputation. But I didn’t think you could get insured for teaching unless you were qualified and I wouldn’t want to without insurance. The folks that go to experienced rather than qualified trainers are they insured? Do you check?

In the past I have used unqualified because the system was stupid to get qualifications but it has been significantly improved with the UKCC process and actually the BHS has kind of caught up with realising some people want to coach and are good at it without having to do all the stable management stuff as well.

Now it’s so easy to get qualifications that everyone I train with at top level is qualified. Even the 5* eventers who are seriously busy with large strings are getting them and it does improve their coaching. It’s just checking standards and quality. I appreciate it doesn’t guarantee anything but it’s an investment in time/money so usually is a good starting point.

Doing UKCC definitely made me a better coach and more focused on how i coach, even though I actually hate coaching and avoid it like the plague. I kind of did it to prove it was easy to get qualifications as long as you have good knowledge and I work full time in a non horse job. I managed it in 4 months. I looked at BHS but that was never going to work for me.

 

[daffy44]

When I started teaching I was unqualified, and I was able to get insurance. From the very start I did an equine specific First Aid course, and safeguarding, and was able to be insured with this but no teaching qualification. I never planned to teach, people just kept asking me, so when I realised that I was doing more teaching than anything else I then did my UKCC qualifiacations to learn more about the craft of teaching. But people were asking me for lessons on the basis of my riding, training and competition record etc.

 

[teapot]

In the past I have used unqualified because the system was stupid to get qualifications but it has been significantly improved with the UKCC process and actually the BHS has kind of caught up with realising some people want to coach and are good at it without having to do all the stable management stuff as well.

Just to reiterate this as don't think it's commonly known, once you've got your complete Stage 2 to include the old PTT, you can take the Stage 3, 4, and 5 coach/teaching exams without having to do any of the others sections. You just need someone to sign you off for specific elements before taking the actual exam though.

You only have to do the care, ride and lunge exams if you want to call yourself a BHS Approved Professional Coach and/or be on their coaching list/use them for insurance. The 4 and 5 coach exams would be unrecognisable these days to a lot of people who immediately discount the BHS system too. Worth a look for sure!

 

[blitznbobs]

I wonder what qualifications Carl Hester has? If I was offered a lesson by him tomorrow Inwould would be there and I couldnt give a toss what qualifications he has. Reputation is everything. However if , as part of a business, i am providing teaching for others, then qualifications begin to matter more… i have to justify why I use that person.

 

[Goldenstar]

CH is an FBHS

 

[teapot]

I wonder what qualifications Carl Hester has? If I was offered a lesson by him tomorrow Inwould would be there and I couldnt give a toss what qualifications he has. Reputation is everything. However if , as part of a business, i am providing teaching for others, then qualifications begin to matter more… i have to justify why I use that person.

He’s a FBHS, and I believe is in a video somewhere saying he in part came to the UK so he could take his exams.

 

[blitznbobs]

He’s a FBHS, and I believe is in a video somewhere saying he in part came to the UK so he could take his exams.

The point is i dont care about his fbhs I care about his track record snd and his methods (which are definitely not bhsy)

The point was it is very different if you are looking for a coach as an established rider vs providing training to people who dont have their own knowledge base to fall back on. If someone tells me to sock my horse in the teeth or do something weird I know it is just that - if someone cant ride and doesnt know horses then they dont know that is the wrong thing to do

 

[LEC]

Yes but luckily Carl did care about his coaching and being good at it, hence he got qualified. He then went to Dr B and learnt under German classical system thus expanding his tools. With Dr B they used the best German trainers as well who were all qualified under the German system…..

 

[eahotson]

Opinions pls.

I’ve always done a bit of teaching on the side, just by word of mouth. I don’t have formal qualifications apart from some BHS Stage 2 I think. I would like to start doing more, my areas of experience would be nervous riders, problem horses, young horses etc and then lower level dressage upto elementary. I seem to have a knack of building confidence in riders, I absolutely love watching confidence grow. So next year (I’ve just missed this year) I will do the bd coaching course but I’m wondering how people feel about being taught by someone without a recognised qualification. It’s fine when it’s word of mouth because people know what they’re getting but to put it out there and advertise myself is another thing. Insurance is important of course and at home I have a (20 x 60 all weather arena and lots of room to turn around - most important bit I think lol) that’s insured for hire. I will ring them to discuss instruction etc but I want your opinions first as you’ve never let me down. So to be clear I want to get out and teach but also have people come to me. I know livery yards usually want to see proof of insurance etc. Also is anyone teaching without qualifications already? When I taught in the states we used to have to get clients to sign a waiver form even though we were insured. Cheers

The best one I ever had was unqualified but he did have a strong competition record

 

[SaddlePsych'D]

If I were choosing a trainer, being insured would obviously be essential. I would probably lean towards someone with formal qualifications unless the unqualified person had very good, direct recommendations/reviews.

Not sure that adds much but I did want to say how great it is that you have the interest/niche with confidence building and are thinking about how to take it further. I've had qualified instructors fairly actively disintegrate my confidence with their teaching style, and others who just don't 'get' it (because I haven't had a serious fall/accident) and/or find it irritating. I've now found an instructor whose niche is confidence building (she is qualified) and it is so great to be with someone who has the patience and genuine enjoyment of helping people out of those tough moments. We need more people like this teaching!

 

[eahotson]

If I were choosing a trainer, being insured would obviously be essential. I would probably lean towards someone with formal qualifications unless the unqualified person had very good, direct recommendations/reviews.

Not sure that adds much but I did want to say how great it is that you have the interest/niche with confidence building and are thinking about how to take it further. I've had qualified instructors fairly actively disintegrate my confidence with their teaching style, and others who just don't 'get' it (because I haven't had a serious fall/accident) and/or find it irritating. I've now found an instructor whose niche is confidence building (she is qualified) and it is so great to be with someone who has the patience and genuine enjoyment of helping people out of those tough moments. We need more people like this teaching!

She sounds amazing.

 

[hock]

If I were choosing a trainer, being insured would obviously be essential. I would probably lean towards someone with formal qualifications unless the unqualified person had very good, direct recommendations/reviews.

Not sure that adds much but I did want to say how great it is that you have the interest/niche with confidence building and are thinking about how to take it further. I've had qualified instructors fairly actively disintegrate my confidence with their teaching style, and others who just don't 'get' it (because I haven't had a serious fall/accident) and/or find it irritating. I've now found an instructor whose niche is confidence building (she is qualified) and it is so great to be with someone who has the patience and genuine enjoyment of helping people out of those tough moments. We need more people like this teaching!

This is great to hear! The general consensus is those people going round badminton jumping those huge fences are so brave etc when for me the real bravery is the rider that is paralysed with fear but keep doing it anyway. My enjoyment comes partly from admiration, partly my own experience and partly seeing the joy building confidence brings. I also think when you have someone who lacks confidence that they are the dark horses! They’re scared and struggling but they’re determined and seeking help and working hard. Add confidence to that drive and determination and the results are kick ass!