Tearing my hair out :(

SatansLittleHelper

SatansLittleHelper

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I really need the blunt and brutal advice of some fellow HHOers.
The horse I was trying to sell (failed vet due to lameness in tight trot circle) has cribbed since I bought him and has always been very "bitey" but its all getting out of hand now.
A week ago he bit me exceptionally hard on my back and left a MASSIVE black bruise and broken skin, I was brusing his foreleg at the time. He has bitten my arms leaving bruises, he has also kicked out at me but never made contact. Today he really pushed his luck by biting at the top of my head when I was wheeling the wheelbarrow through the gate, luckily I saw him coming and ducked. He also backed me into a corner of the field shelter trying to kick. My novice friend keeps her horse in with my boys and is now refusing to go near as he has bitten her too.
He constantly cribs and is wrecking the fences...even GastroGuard and a cribbing collar havent helped ( GG as we suspected ulcers). I knew the horse could be stroppy when I bought him but didnt quite realise to what extent and the seller denies all knowledge of his cribbing despite the vet saying his teeth show wear concluding that this is a ling established habit.
The horses all have plenty of space, shelter and food etc and vet has declared horse to be in good health.
Obviously I have been trying to find the cause of his lameness (vet did say that if horse wasn't insured he wouldn't even bother suggesting investigations) and when horse was vetted he was pronounced healthy in his heart, eyes etc. He does have a splint in his off hind and a lump in his sheath that is "possibly" a sarcoid.
What am I supposed to do with him?? No-one wants an aggressive horse even though he is a safe ride (believe me I have tried!!), he is getting more and more aggressive due to his boredom and frustration. I can no longer trust him and my friend is scared of him. Im really tearing my hair out now as to what to do with him. I have spent the last few days alternating between crying and wanting to strangle him :(
Advice/critisism whatever is all welcome. ..I just need to decide whats best for him (and us) :(

ETA: Im by no means a wimp with horses and he has been smacked for biting, I have fried blocking the bites with my elbow but he bites that instead. You dont actually have to be even doing anything with him either..he will just go out of his way to take a chunk :(
 
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I think by now I would have walloped it very hard with a thick bashy stick...... Preferably across the nose! However I think you have gone past this point......

Are you still going to try and sell it, only I think it may be quite a hard sell seeing it cribs, bites, kicks, has a possibly cancerous lump and has failed a vetting. It's not really selling it's self currently! And as you said, who wants a horse like that! There are many very good, well manner horses currently not selling, so those with behaviour issues are even less likely less to sell.

Why are you selling? Are you unable to ride it? If it currently needs work can you find a short term part loan? Keep it going and interested! Or would you consider a long term loan?

I think I've been blunt I'm afraid! And I'm sorry for the position you are in, it doesn't sound easy at all!
 
Okay, he has a splint, a possible sarcoid, and is lame to some degree. So he won't pass a vetting. He also has an established stable vice, and bites/tries to kick. Trying to kick can easily become does kick. You can't find anyone willing to ride him, so he is also bored.

So you have a bored, badly behaved horse with health issues, that you do not trust and that others are afraid of, but who is good under saddle.

If he were mine, I would be wearing hard hat, gloves and body protector at all times, and probably carrying a stick too when in the field. I would be concerned for the person who shares the field - can he be turned out elsewhere or sectioned off with electric fencing?

Vet and behaviourist would be consulted too. Depending on how this panned out, I would consider PTS - unless a different solution could be found.

Will your insurance cover a full investigation into all his lumps and bumps, including the possible sarcoid, or could you afford to have said investigation done out of your own pocket?

Would you feel better if you had a behaviourist look at him too? Or have you had enough as it stands?

Honestly, if he is really unpleasant to be around, verging on dangerous by the sounds of this at times, and not healthy, maybe you need to consider PTS? But I would get him thoroughly checked out first, as it would give you peace of mind.

I feel for you, and him, awful situation :( Good luck with him, whatever route you take, but please be careful.
 
Thanks guys....honest and blunt is what Im aiming for here.
I do feel he would be better with more to do but no-one seems to want him. Im not prepared to part loan/find a rider as I have to consider my friend (who now absolutely hates him).
I would happily give him to the knacker man right at this moment!!!!
But all of my feelings aside I know he is bored but I just dont have the time for him at the moment. My daughter has been really poorly in hospital several times over the last weeks and we are just about to get the house torn to buts for all the disabled adaptations that are needed so time is at a premium right now. I have a young horse too who is fab in every way and is just chilling in the field being a baby at the moment so he is easy.
Im riding this horse as often as time allows but it has becime a chore and my confidence has been knocked alot since losing my gorgeous Clydesdale boy last year. I also suffer from depression :(

I realise I probably sound pathetic but I just cant deal with this anymore, Im fed up of my horsey respite time being ruined by having to dodge bites etc :(
 
Is he actually better when he is in work? Or is this just a pattern of worsening behaviour overall?

Being really honest, in your heart, why don't you want to keep him - is he actually dangerous, or just difficult, or is it stress/boredom? Likewise, can you see yourself riding him or is that not an option?

Could you afford to keep him whilst investigations etc were done, and would 24/7 turnout work? How is he to stable anyway?

I suppose it boils down to can you really not manage him, or do you not want to have to any more - one scenario suggests he is physically too much for you/dangerous, the other that you are just at your emotional limit, and you know what? It is okay to draw that line. Just be utterly honest where it lies, and why you are drawing it.

I do think it is unlikely he would sell, all things considered.
 
Honestly?? If I was more mentally "with it" at the moment I would be able to deal with him better. However, as it stands Im at the very end of my rope with everything to do with him...heartless as it sounds I actually now actively dislike him. I dont want to keep him and I dont have the inclination to find the extra time needed for him. I would happily gift him to someone who had the time for him.
We can get x-rays etc done as he is insured but I dont have transport and I dont have electric at the field for the mobile x-ray machine.
He lives out 24/7. I have no idea how he is to stable as I never have.
I know I sound like a really horrible person but Im just so tired of it all. He was for sale initially due to time constraints and struggling with depression etc. I really really love my 3 year old horse and every second spent with him is pure joy, I just want to put my energies into doing right by him and do him justice properly rather than spreading myself too thinly. A few previous comments from HHO posters made me realise where I was going wrong but now I feel trapoed in a situation and dont know what to do :( :( :(
 
Okay. Arrange for the vet tests, xrays, etc and book a transporter to take him there and back. If there is a physical cause found, treat it if possible, or PTS if vet feels this is best for horse. Maybe it is hindgut ulcers, maybe it is something else, maybe there is no physical cause and he is just like this. Hopefully, there is something that can be done to help him.

Post treatment, if any, get a decent behaviourist out to check him over, and help you choose an appropriate sales prep type livery yard for him. Be prepared to sell him for a token sum and make a loss. Also depending on his behaviour for others, you may still befaced with PTS. However, it is possible that if physical issues are dealt with and he is put into consistant work, then he could end up able to be sold.

For everyone's sake, you must be 100% honest when attempting to sell him.
 
I've been honest to a fault when speaking to people about him. Im a genuine person and I would absolutely NEVER pass on a horse without being truthful about any problems. I am genuinely concerned for his welfare (probably doesn't sound like it, I know).
Im going to get back on to vets tomorrow and see what I can organise for transport etc.
X-Rays of his front feet will be the next step....just got to get him to vet. Does anyone know of any cheap transport from Nesscliffe to Northwood?? Its 15 miles x
 
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SatansLittleHelper said:
I've been honest to a fault when speaking to people about him. Im a genuine person and I would absolutely NEVER pass on a horse without being truthful about any problems. I am genuinely concerned for his welfare (probably doesn't sound like it, I know).
Im going to get back on to vets tomorrow and see what I can organise for transport etc.
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Selling an animal because you cannot spend any more energy on it is not wrong, OP. It is horrible to have to do, but sometimes it is all you can do. I have been there myself. It is rotten. Would not wish it on anyone.

You are getting the vet side done, you are being honest about him, you are trying to fix things for him. I would say you care a lot about his welfare. Good luck again, and take one day at a time.
 
OP really feel for you in this one.

Just a couple of points for you to consider...

Don't know who you're insured with but NFU are v. good and paid my travel expenses (paid me mileage - I was transporting myself). Call your insurance and ask if they will cover a haulier. They also paid for extra bedding/feed costs while he was on box rest and normally out 24/7 - best kept secret by insurance ever!!!

Other thing is - and expect you are fully aware - cut out anything at all heating from his grub. The way he's behaving I'd be tempted to give him nowt by way of short feed. Ideally just some good grass might quieten him down.

I would whack him if he was going for me. Its not too late to pull back the discipline. I quite like a length of plastic hose. You might have to be brutal but its for everyone's sake. You can't risk him taking your fingers off when your child needs you so much.

Don't be too afraid of the PTS option. Posters get v. moralistic on here but horses have absolutely no idea what's coming. They don't suffer in that way and it'll be a better end than many of us will have! There is an absolute glut of horses out there who need homes. I think you'd struggle to give him away esp. at the moment.

You need to be very careful that he can't harm others. Consider signs at field gate? Ideally, another arrangement re your field sharer. You could do without a liability claim coming your way.

I wish you all the very best. It sounds like you have masses on your plate at the moment and are v. sensibly realising that you need to make some changes before you can't handle it all any more. I dread to think how I'd manage with all that so fair play to you... Take care
 
I am going to be hard, just have him PTS. Yes he could come good but what cost to yourself and your family, I assume if you were badly injured you would have to get carers for your daughter. He is going to be very difficult to rehome and if he injured anyone you would feel responsible and you would feel even worse and in the mean time he is terrorising your friend and yourself. Let go and move on.
 
Being blunt - pts, it will save you all the money and worry of finding out what's wrong only for you have to make the decision based on the vets' findings.
BUT you also have to factor in how you would feel if you did this, will you regret it afterwards and wish that you had taken advantage of the insurance money available to do the diagnostic testing?
I also think that you should speak to your doctor about your depression. I'm not surprised that you are depressed, with all that is going on in your life but your medication should be addressing that to the extent that it doesn't need to be factored into your decision.
 
Ok the horse is aggressive , lame , cribs and has a sarcoid .
Fattys sarcoids have cost well cover two thousand ponds since he arrived with us and his are ' easy ' type sarcoids to deal with , but fatty is doing a great job for us he's well behaved so handling his difficult health issues ( as he has had a difficult history ) is worth every penny .
Would I have taken on fatty if he was agreessive and ate my fences even if he did a great job of work no I would not.
SLH you have to ask your self in the current climate why would anyone want to take on this horse when so many horses are looking for homes , livery yards will be difficult to find and a nightmare for his new owner if he's frightening other liverys and eating fences and would someone with their own place want to take on a lame aggressive horse with a sarcoid that ruins your fences ( my maintainence bill for my post and rails this year is nearly £3000 ) would I take on a known fence chewer no way .
You need to get a grip on this now having read your new thread I am perhaps now more with your vet than I was it may not be worth investigating this lameness unless the horse is an exceptional individual capable of doing an extraordinary job
I think only an idiot would take him on.
You bought the horse with these issues its up to you to sort it out sometimes you just get it wrong you make a bad purchase , the best way out of this may be to consider PTS .
A new owner won't get insurance as the horse has had ulcer treatment it's known to be lame and have a sarcoid to insure such a horse without declaring this is fraud .Be honest why would someone take this on .
 
OP, this horse is dangerous. It may not be his fault, usually this sort of problems are man made, maybe he was hand reared, but somewhere along the line he has learnt that he can scare people. The fact that he actively seeks you out to kick and bite is seriously bad news.

You have enough to cope with on a daily basis. You have massive responsibilities that are ongoing. Your horses are an escape and give you some important down time.

If I were in this situation, I would absolutely not be starting any investigative work ups on this horse. There is no point, he has nothing going for him. I would be putting this horse to sleep, for his sake as well as mine, and I would not feel guilty about it.
 
I would PTS. The alternative as I see it is do a full work up - and even with a good insurance company you are looking at a few hundred on top of the bill, bodge up his problems and sell him. It is then possible to see his problems reoccuring and him going on a downward spiral of homes. Get rid, enjoy your youngster and look after your daughter and yourself.
 
I really feel for you. You must feel as if your damned if you do and damned if you don't with regards to punishing yourself with whatever decision you make.
PTS is not the easy option, it's the hardest. You have to be 110% sure in your mind that it is the kindest and most sensible option otherwise it will consume you with guilt.
If I were in your situation I would much rather pts than pass these problems on to somebody else. The fear of what may happen to either the horse or another person would weigh heavier on my conscience.
Hopefully the honest replies on this thread will help relieve some of that burden and enable you to see things a bit more clearly.
Have a good honest chat with your vet and see how you feel then. Hugs to you in the mean time x
 
Before I had him PTS I would advertise on Project Horse first, with an honest description, see if you can find a home through that. I just have a feeling that in a more experienced home and with a bit of time spent on him he could come right..
 
It's not sensible to be consumed with guilt for putting a horse to sleep .
There's never a reason to be consumed with guilt over a horse .
Regretful yes
Chastened that you did not do a better Job or took on more than you could cope with, yes.
Angry that you where not careful enough when you bought , yes .
But consumed with guilt when you have a sick child , don't have a bottomless pit of money and a lame aggressive fence chewing horse with a sarcoid no I don't think so.
If OP decides to PTS this horse then the next day she won't feel consumed with guilt the chances are she will feel sad but not at the end of her tether any more .
 
Honey08 said:
Before I had him PTS I would advertise on Project Horse first, with an honest description, see if you can find a home through that. I just have a feeling that in a more experienced home and with a bit of time spent on him he could come right..
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I agree with this. I appreciate that you're not in the right place in your personal life to be well equipped to handle this on top of everything else, so if sending him on is the right thing for you at least give him a chance at a home before making a decision to pts. If he's a nice ride when sound he does at least have some redeeming features. If rehoming now isn't an option, at least do him the justice of having a vet work up to see if his behaviour is pain related rather than just behavioural.

If he was mine I'd -

Get vet investigations for ulcers, hind gut acidosis (you could just try Settlex or similar to see if this helps before doing anything else) and to confirm if the lump is a sarcoid or not. Also investigate lameness, if it's painful that could explain his behaviour.

Cut out heating feed and replace with high fibre, low starch. Adlib hay unless the grazing is exceptionally good and plentiful (which is doubtful at this time of year).

Catch and tie him up for every interaction that takes place, whether it's directly with him, with another horse in the field or just poo picking. Wear a hat, gloves and carry a stick if needs be. You need to be safe and having him tied up out of you way is one way of doing this.

Get a behaviourist to come out and work with both of you.


When I got my mare she was dangerous in the field at feed times, as she'd gone hungry at her previous home. It took a while, and I did have to carry a whip and use it once or twice, but she came good and I had many brilliant years with her. I would hate to think that someone would have pts for this when it was relatively easy to fix.
 
Regarding transport, ask your vet if they can suggest anyone. They will probably have animals brought to them by transporter sometimes, and should know someone in the area. Or local riding centres, tack shops, etc.
 
cambrica said:
I really feel for you. You must feel as if your damned if you do and damned if you don't with regards to punishing yourself with whatever decision you make.
PTS is not the easy option, it's the hardest. You have to be 110% sure in your mind that it is the kindest and most sensible option otherwise it will consume you with guilt.
If I were in your situation I would much rather pts than pass these problems on to somebody else. The fear of what may happen to either the horse or another person would weigh heavier on my conscience.
Hopefully the honest replies on this thread will help relieve some of that burden and enable you to see things a bit more clearly.
Have a good honest chat with your vet and see how you feel then. Hugs to you in the mean time x
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This, ^^^ How beautifully put x
 
Are there any agricultural colleges in your area who offer equine courses? Once you've ruled out any health issues, it might possibly be an option to offer them your horse having been totally honest with them of course. If boredom is at the root of his problem, being worked regularly might be the answer.
 
BayLady said:
I agree with this. I appreciate that you're not in the right place in your personal life to be well equipped to handle this on top of everything else, so if sending him on is the right thing for you at least give him a chance at a home before making a decision to pts. If he's a nice ride when sound he does at least have some redeeming features. If rehoming now isn't an option, at least do him the justice of having a vet work up to see if his behaviour is pain related rather than just behavioural.

If he was mine I'd -

Get vet investigations for ulcers, hind gut acidosis (you could just try Settlex or similar to see if this helps before doing anything else) and to confirm if the lump is a sarcoid or not. Also investigate lameness, if it's painful that could explain his behaviour.

Cut out heating feed and replace with high fibre, low starch. Adlib hay unless the grazing is exceptionally good and plentiful (which is doubtful at this time of year).

Catch and tie him up for every interaction that takes place, whether it's directly with him, with another horse in the field or just poo picking. Wear a hat, gloves and carry a stick if needs be. You need to be safe and having him tied up out of you way is one way of doing this.

Get a behaviourist to come out and work with both of you.


When I got my mare she was dangerous in the field at feed times, as she'd gone hungry at her previous home. It took a while, and I did have to carry a whip and use it once or twice, but she came good and I had many brilliant years with her. I would hate to think that someone would have pts for this when it was relatively easy to fix.
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Completely agree with this. From what I've read, he's been nippy, but the biting has only become a real problem since you took him on. I'd be inclined to put this down to either pain (reading your post about lameness work ups, it could be a contributor), as well as him being generally unsatisfied. He sounds like he's come from an active home, where he was ridden often and in varied situations, to a home where he, understandably, is not ridden as often as he probably should be and is in a field with horses that he doesn't get along with. (From what I read. This may, of course, have changed).

He sounds, to me, like he needs an active lifestyle with plenty of mental stimulation. He also sounds like he has bad ground manners and little respect for you.

I'd check the potential sarcoid, possibles ulcers and the lameness out, but providing there aren't any physical issues, I think he'd probably work out alright with somebody who has more free time. Unfortunately I think a lot of your issues are down to a complete mismatch.
 
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Kitei said:
Completely agree with this. From what I've read, he's been nippy, but the biting has only become a real problem since you took him on.
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The OP does not describe a 'nippy' horse.

As for it only becoming a problem since she's had it - how do you know this, do you know the horses past history?
 
Goldenstar said:
It's not sensible to be consumed with guilt for putting a horse to sleep .
There's never a reason to be consumed with guilt over a horse .
Regretful yes
Chastened that you did not do a better Job or took on more than you could cope with, yes.
Angry that you where not careful enough when you bought , yes .
But consumed with guilt when you have a sick child , don't have a bottomless pit of money and a lame aggressive fence chewing horse with a sarcoid no I don't think so.
If OP decides to PTS this horse then the next day she won't feel consumed with guilt the chances are she will feel sad but not at the end of her tether any more .
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I'm sorry that is taken out of context and is not how you have made it sound.
If the OP chooses to pts then all I'm saying is make sure that there are absolutely no doubts that it is the right decision. If 20% of your mind is saying 'this is the wrong decision' then that isn't going to go away.
Family and children come first, that is paramount and goes without saying and all I want is for the OP to not feel guilty, chastened or angry about any of it and be in a strong position to care for her beautiful child.
 
You've been given some good, honest advice OP and there's probably not much I can add.

It's just a thought, but are you the only person that really deals with him? I thought it was interesting that you mentioned his behaviour had deteriorated recently and that could well be due to the stress you're under. You sound like you're having a really tough time at the minute and have said that you don't really like him and a sensitive horse is going to be affected by all that. If you're even thinking of selling him then I would agree that you need to get to the bottom of his veterinary issues but regarding the behaviour on the ground, if he is a nice horse to ride then I think he might well improve with the right person. Unfortunately finding someone willing to put the effort in with no guaranteed results is not going to be easy. Although saying that, I'm a sucker for a horse with 'issues' so if I was nearer I'd probably come and look and there must be other idiots like me out there!

I really feel for you - I have no idea what I'd do in your situation and wish you luck with whatever you decide.
 
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