Tearing my hair out :(

If he is not insured and you are not in a position to spend money on investigations, im afraid my answer would be to PTS. its such a hard call i realise, but he is obviously unhappy and sounds like there could be a pain issue. It would be the right thing to do IMO rather than him spend the next few years of his life maybe pushed from pillar to post, after buyers realise they cant cope with him. Potential buyers may be genuine and want to have him but all too often the reality of a difficult horse wears people down and he may get moved on a few times.
 
I am simply going to emphasise taking everything one day at a time. Because depression will have you second guessing everything, no matter what you do a part of you will still think you could do more. If you have the option of counselling, it may help you to clear things in your own mind :)

I was at a point where I honestly couldn't cope with even minor decisions. We had a few months where I would buy two loaves rather than one, as I couldn't decide between wholegrain or plain bread! Scale that up to what you are dealing with, it is awful.

I really think that you already know what you need to do. You just need to take the time to get yourself to the place where you can do it. None of us have met the horse, or are leading your life, so we can only give opinions based on our own contexts. So take whatever time you need OP, and do what feels right to you - be that PTS or rehome, only you will know what is right for you and the horse.

All the best.
 
If the buyers were out there, i`d say sell him on. However, in all honestly people are struggling to sell good horses on right now, the economic climate is meaning everyone is having to tighten their belts, and most folk won`t want to take on a horse with "issues" of any description. I think that is the crux of the matter.

OP is struggling, has a hectic home life to deal with, and has already advertised and not managed to sell him, then things do start to look bleak.


SLH hun, i would draft up an advert and put it on homes4horses and project horses, be completely honest in your advert, and give it say a 1 month time limit, this way you are giving him the chance of finding someone who could maybe help him, and if no one comes forward then PTS. OR if the thought of doing that leaves you completely exasperated that in itself gives you the answer, call the knackerman and let him go x
 
I need to clarify a few points I think.
The horse bit BEFORE I bought him. It is an established habit. He bit me the day I viewed him but it didnt worry me a great deal as the owner said it wasn't a big issue and he did it rarely. Naively or otherwise I chose to take this at face value. (I have since learned more about the horse and seller and know the horse has a history of biting). He bites when you are nowhere near him, he actually goes out of his way.
The horse tries to kick but has so far not got contact as I've avoided it.
He does not get on with my other horse but is more friendly with my friends mare.
He wasnt in full work when I got him either.
He has no hard feed at all...just grass and ad lib hay..
He probably doesn’t have any respect for me now as Im going out of my way to avoid being injured.
If anything is being done in the field etc I tie him up with a haynet...his reply to this is to crib and/or pull back/rear up etc once he has decided he has had enough.
My friend refuses to go in the field unless Im there. This is an issue as I have to rely on her help to do hay/poo pick etc when my daughter is in hospital.
I have tried to find an experienced home for him that can do more with him but no-one wants him plus with my hand on my heart I would not forgive myself if anything awful happened to him or someone else.
Im going to call the BHS for some additional advice.
I want to say a big thank you...I love that this forum can be relied on for blunt honesty xx
 
PTS, there possibly is an option to work with him, it will probably take a lot of time, effort and pain which if you have a daughter who is reliant on you isn't worth the risk IMHO. Like you said is it worth the risk of selling on, who knows where he could end up or what damage could be done. Certainly wont be an easy task but in your case I would PTS xx
 
Can I just reassure you, if you do decide to PTS, horses don't get anxious and traumatised if you have it done well. My whole attitude to it changed when my old cushingoid mare, after a dreadful winter, refused to get to her feet one morning. She wasn't in distress, or having breathing problems etc - as clearly as possible she was saying to me "I don't want to carry on, just let me go"
We get dreadfully hung up on life and death, and try to cling to life at any cost, but animals aren't like that. Just think about it as putting the lights out and as said above, giving them release and peace. Lots of equines are going to have that this winter I think.
Sometimes we struggle so much with the decision, once it is made and the deed is done it is such a relief and we can move on.
 
SLH , don't tear your heart out over this horse.
You make a mistake taking him on you can only do what you have time for , you need to focus on the most important thing , your daughter.
If a good option for a new home can't be found quickly no one sensible would condem you for taking the decision to PTS.
 
He is an unsellable, unhealthy and by the sounds of it an unhappy horse, in your shoes I would pts. Selling on is unfair on him I think, and you can guarantee that with the pts route he will be pain free, you will be worry free and I feel it is the best option all round.
 
SLH, a problem shared is a problem halved and I hope that the weight your carrying is lifting. Chin up and take on all the support you need xx
 
I'm another one that would PTS i'm afraid.

I think that you have to put yourself & your daughter first. The last thing you need to be worrying about is this unpleasant, dangerous horse that also has several health issues.

Call the hunt & explain your situation, they may be able to come & collect him for you.

I do really feel for you but honestly feel that this is best for you, your daughter & the horse.

Big hugs. PM me if i could help (making call to hunt?)
 
Just to reiterate some very good advice here... I have found that the very worst thing about PTS is making the decision. Once that's done the deed itself is typically done v. well. I would recommend getting the hunt out if funds allow as one of the most reliable/calm methods. If you do go down that route talk to the hunt about sedating the horse and see if you can get someone big, strong and experienced (in this case) to do so asap as the hunt arrives (don't do so before in case they're late). After the decision is done the relief can be immediate. You need to get to the other side on this one asap. x
 
SatansLittleHelper said:
I really need the blunt and brutal advice of some fellow HHOers.
The horse I was trying to sell (failed vet due to lameness in tight trot circle) has cribbed since I bought him and has always been very "bitey" but its all getting out of hand now.
A week ago he bit me exceptionally hard on my back and left a MASSIVE black bruise and broken skin, I was brusing his foreleg at the time. He has bitten my arms leaving bruises, he has also kicked out at me but never made contact. Today he really pushed his luck by biting at the top of my head when I was wheeling the wheelbarrow through the gate, luckily I saw him coming and ducked. He also backed me into a corner of the field shelter trying to kick. My novice friend keeps her horse in with my boys and is now refusing to go near as he has bitten her too.
He constantly cribs and is wrecking the fences...even GastroGuard and a cribbing collar havent helped ( GG as we suspected ulcers). I knew the horse could be stroppy when I bought him but didnt quite realise to what extent and the seller denies all knowledge of his cribbing despite the vet saying his teeth show wear concluding that this is a ling established habit.
The horses all have plenty of space, shelter and food etc and vet has declared horse to be in good health.
Obviously I have been trying to find the cause of his lameness (vet did say that if horse wasn't insured he wouldn't even bother suggesting investigations) and when horse was vetted he was pronounced healthy in his heart, eyes etc. He does have a splint in his off hind and a lump in his sheath that is "possibly" a sarcoid.
What am I supposed to do with him?? No-one wants an aggressive horse even though he is a safe ride (believe me I have tried!!), he is getting more and more aggressive due to his boredom and frustration. I can no longer trust him and my friend is scared of him. Im really tearing my hair out now as to what to do with him. I have spent the last few days alternating between crying and wanting to strangle him :(
Advice/critisism whatever is all welcome. ..I just need to decide whats best for him (and us) :(

ETA: Im by no means a wimp with horses and he has been smacked for biting, I have fried blocking the bites with my elbow but he bites that instead. You dont actually have to be even doing anything with him either..he will just go out of his way to take a chunk :(
Click to expand...
Having read it second time I realise why I was confused- you mean brushing i read it a bruising first time.



With me I would not have put with this behaviour for this long. I had a livery like this almost identical. It was on part livery and to be fair owner warned me an being only a temporary arrangement while her box at home was refurbished I said ok.

It tried to bite and kick me given every opportunity. I gave it a week of just growling at it but to no avail. The following it lunged at me while about to do front buckles up only I was quicker and my clenched fist walloped him across snout. Now its wrong to smack this hard but with *l* he got the message loud and clear. After that ANYTIME he turned to try I said *Yes* want to try it? he never even went close enough again, yes ears back and made gestures but stop when i said go on.

Same with kicking I made contact with him once and again a warning stopped him in the future me just raising my leg. YES There are some that will be horrified, but it was my life at stake. Horses understand kicks from other horses. L understood I was dominant after that for the rest of his stay it was ok.

This situation of yours could be fatal as your now scared of him and have not got the strength to over come this.. Its so far down the line now I say things are too far gone now.

1st ask vet if there is any medical reason for horses behaviour.
2nd if not I would gather evidence , record dates video diary photos and bring a case against the seller.

If this fails get the vet to right a report to insurance on the grounds of dangerous horse and pts.




just to add I was told *L* had the groom in the corner double barreling her while was skipping out, it was the speed of others she, the groom survived.
 
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SatansLittleHelper said:
I need to clarify a few points I think.
The horse bit BEFORE I bought him. It is an established habit. He bit me the day I viewed him but it didnt worry me a great deal as the owner said it wasn't a big issue and he did it rarely. Naively or otherwise I chose to take this at face value. (I have since learned more about the horse and seller and know the horse has a history of biting). He bites when you are nowhere near him, he actually goes out of his way.
The horse tries to kick but has so far not got contact as I've avoided it.
He does not get on with my other horse but is more friendly with my friends mare.
He wasnt in full work when I got him either.
He has no hard feed at all...just grass and ad lib hay..
He probably doesn’t have any respect for me now as Im going out of my way to avoid being injured.
If anything is being done in the field etc I tie him up with a haynet...his reply to this is to crib and/or pull back/rear up etc once he has decided he has had enough.
My friend refuses to go in the field unless Im there. This is an issue as I have to rely on her help to do hay/poo pick etc when my daughter is in hospital.
I have tried to find an experienced home for him that can do more with him but no-one wants him plus with my hand on my heart I would not forgive myself if anything awful happened to him or someone else.
Im going to call the BHS for some additional advice.
I want to say a big thank you...I love that this forum can be relied on for blunt honesty xx
Click to expand...

TBH reading this I think you already know what the right decision is. xx
 
I don't think I can offer you any advice OP, just sympathy and virtual hugs. That said, it seems that the chances of the horse coming right are quite limited and PTS would not be unreasonable - certainly far better for the horse than passing him on in his current state to any but the most reliable and experienced home.
 
I haven't read all of this thread, just your initial one and a few responses. Apart from your current intentions re: vet etc, put a bucket muzzle on while you are handling him and unless you are sure what his medical issues and are prepared to cut him some slack over pain etc. make sure you have a schooling stick to hand if he tries to kick, you will have to be as quick as he is, if he threatens to kick, or does, give him what he gives you, only harder. Tie him up short as you can. But my overriding response would be to tell you to do what is right for YOU. Horses are supposed to be our pleasure and if it is not working for you then only you should have the decision about his future as yours and your daughters/friends are ultimately more important.
 
PTS. Don't think about, don't question it, don't second guess it. It is not cruel, it is not a bad choice, it is not a bad home. There ARE fates worse than death for horses. It sounds like you have done more than enough for this horse. Just PTS, and focus on yourself, your daughter and your youngster. Huge hugs.
 
Look at it maybe from a different angle. If it were say a dog that went for you or anybody else for that matter its days would be numbered and the decision may not be yours to make. Yet an aggressive horse is no different.
I can understand the need to ascertain whether it is pain related or him acting like a homebred, hand-reared brat. If its the latter (not saying he's hand-reared) then we've all seen the Buck Brannaman video of the horse attack on the man's head.
If its pain related then there is still no guarentee that if you take that pain away his behaviour will change. My old mare (pts through colic) became very aggressive although not to me but everyone else and other horses, no pain but an ovarian tumour which made her very stallionish. I had the tumour removed and she did become non-aggressive but I never got her back to how she was before. She stressed, stable walked, had seperation anxiety and if I tried to take her out for a walk she would be a trembling, sweating mess. Basically for about 5 years my yard had to fit in around her. In hindsight the best thing would have been to have her pts when we discovered the tumour and in the end to lose her to colic was perhaps far worse.
I know its not the same as your situation but I've been thinking of you all day and can relate to what you are going through.x
 
Im sorry but this horse doesnt sound like a happy animal at all, and if you move him on with his issues and aggression your just setting him off on the downward spiral of possible abuse and probable pts anyway, there are to many good horses out there for people to put up with a dangerous horse. Hard as it might be i think pts is the best option for you and the horse
 
Before I had my daughter, I would be a person who said, work with him, get the vet etc now I have a child and realize what would happen if I got injured, I would PTS, you have to think of your daughter.
 
I agree with others and think this horse sounds like its in pain. As he's insured then why not go down the investigative route of his lameness then at least that can possibly get sorted (or at least you'll know the prognosis). If the lameness can be sorted then I would absolutely advertise him very honestly on somewhere like Project Horses. Perhaps a lot of time spent with him will sort him out, you freely admit you don't have time for him, don't enjoy time with him and have basically given up on him so he's probably feeling the same about you which is certainly not going to help any situation so no wonder its spiraled out of control. Someone out there could probably sort him just by giving him the time he needs so I believe its definately worth a shot. I would never ever go down the PTS route unless it was the absolute last resort.
 
SLH, I feel so so much for you, knowing how hard life must be dealing with your daughter in and out of hospital and your depression, please please put yourself and your daughter first and have him pts. You will be doing the right thing by the horse in his current state and the right thing for you and your families welfare, take care x
 
Just want to say a massive thank you to everyone. After alot of soul searching and discussions with my own vet, insurance company and the BHS it has been decided that the horse will be PTS on humane grounds.
Im exhausted at the moment with my daughters problems plus my own. I do take medication for the depression plus I have extra support etc so thats a start but this situation is beyond me right now. I would never be able to pass him on with his problems, there are too many happy, healthy horses not getting a chance without adding this kind of horse to the mix. He deserves better than to be abused or end up in a sales ring etc.
So thats the decision made and yes, I do feel better for having decided.
Being able to come here and get proper, non fluffy advice means a huge amount to me..so thank you :)
 
I haven't read the whole thread so apologies if I'm repeating what's already been said. I would muzzle him in the field, that does away with the biting and cribbing. Stable him at night so he can eat, put a feed in the stable by the door and turn him round to face the door when he's in, then remove the muzzle and leave. I would leave a headcollar on him in the stable and 'catch' him with a treat whilst you're still outside. Then either put the muzzle on over the door or bring him out and tie up short so he can't bite, to muzzle him. Don't be in a position where you are in the field or stable with him loose, to minimize the risk of being kicked.
 
Is he a straight-forward ride and sound if you don't look very closely? Maybe he'd suit a loan to a riding school? Or advertise a loan and see what sort of interest you get. We've heard a lot about the horse's negatives, but maybe he's still got a fair bit going for him that might work for some jobs? If he really is more bad than good, or you can't face the potential agro of it not working out, then pts is a perfectly reasonable option IMO.

Sorry, cross posted, glad you've reached a decision OP. I hope all goes as smoothly as possible.
 
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