Tearing my hair out.....

B

Biglets Mummy

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Hi all,
I really could do with some help with my 9 month old Golden retriever puppy....I have posted about her on here before but in a nutshell I took her on after our dear friend became terminally ill very quickly and we all rallied around to rehome her animals and I took the puppy on. Shes a dear little thing and has settled in well but I cannot crack the toilet training.She has been here now almost 3 months.
Since my friend died, and please no harsh words about this as she is not here to defend herself and we have all been through it a bit,I have found out that this little puppy was never really toilet trained and used puppy pads and was allowed to soil on the pads throughout the house. She was very rarely walked and when my friend became unwell she was put in an outside kennel for very long periods...
I decided to start with the crate and as I work from home I stuck her straight into a regime.She had no idea about weeing outside and I could be out for an hour with no luck. Id then come in and straight away all over the floor...
Luckily she has clicked on really quickly with weebies but poobees....Oh my days.....
I want to wean her off the crate as even though it is a huge thing she is getting bigger and I don't feel comfy with her in it so she still goes in it at night as otherwise she will cover the floor in poo....I tried her last night after a 3 mile walk and she pebbledashed my bedroom carpet....3 oclock this morning.
She never ever does it in front of me....I never get the chance to quickly take her out as she is doing it. She waits until I go to the loo or pop into the other room.
Just now I took her out of her crate ( she is only in for 2 hours at a go in the day) and let them all out for a good romp around the garden. She was out for a good 20 mins and did a wee straight away and when we all came back in she curled up in her bed with my other two.Feeling brave I thought I wont put her back in her crate so I came back up to my office and literally had just sat down and the smell wafted up the stairs.....
It was everywhere.....So I have cleaned it up and left her back in her bed in the hope that she doesn't do it again......I want to see if I can get her out of her crate in the day.
I have never raised my voice to her. I just sigh and get the mop out but my house is suffering and it came to a bit of a head last night when my landlord poped in and even though we had just been out for a really long walk and she had poobee whilst out. In the time it took me to go out to the gate and let him in ( 30 secs) I opened the door and their it was.and so much of it...Landlord not very happy......
Do you think this is separation anxiety?? She is always with my other 2 and she can hear me up here. I cant have her in the same room as I have to make phone calls etc and she is a distraction from work as I am constantly trying to make sure she doesn't poo.
I am clearly doing something wrong but having had dogs all my life I have never had one who is so difficult to train....She has a clean bill of health with the vet and is on a chudleys puppy diet. Her poo when in the garden are firm..the ones in the house are like milky way ( sorry if you like milky way) She is never left alone for long periods....Longest is a few hours if I pop to the shops.
Help !!!!! Thank you all in advance xxx
 
I can only tell you what I'm doing with my pup (13 weeks), which is:

5.30/6.00 am out for wee and poo. We don't come indoors until she's done it, and I don't play with her during this time. I watch her like a hawk, encourage her verbally and praise each motion. She then has breakfast.

She'll go back to sleep about an hour and a half later for up to an hour or so. As soon as she wakes up - out for a wee, and she goes. And so on throughout the day. When she wakes up, out for toilet. After food, outside for toilet.

She toilets around every 2 - 3 hours, and I'm generally aware of what she's doing and when. We spend a lot of time outside, and if I spot her additionally toileting during that time - big praise. But regardless I keep to our routine.

She doesn't have the run of the house, and if she wants to be in when we're working outside she's only aloud in the kitchen.

I watch her like a hawk when we're in, and am able to spot most of the triggers now (of course there's still accidents, and I don't make a big deal of them, although others may think I should??)

She has her last toilet break anywhere between 11.00pm and 1.00am, depending on what time I go to bed.

Crating wasn't working for us, so it was ditched. She sleeps in my bed and if she needs the loo in the middle of the night I take her out (although I haven't had to do this for about 2 weeks now).

I don't feed her any later than 6pm.

We've had different dogs staying with us over the last week, with guest staying etc, but I've still taken her off for wees and poos, to ensure our 'quiet' routine isn't disturbed.

If we go out I do try and fit it in around her current sleep/food/toilet pattern to avoid accidents - but always leave a pad down for her, which she'll use (although I realise this is exactly what you want to move away from).

I do seem to be 'attachment parenting' my puppy........:D

Sorry for the essay.
 
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I think you need to get a lot firmer with her, she's almost a grown up and doesn't seem to understand she's not to go in the house, she almost sounds like she thinks that's where she's supposed to go....if all you do is sigh and clean up after her what she is learning ?
 
bonny, teaching a dog that they 'mustn't', is a complete waste of time. Dogs are never house clean to suit us, but they are to suit themselves.

B_M, right, feed once a day only, and before nine in the morning. She wont die, and she will still love you. Your bitch needs to learn how to be clean, but more importantly, she needs to 'want' to do it for herself.

If 'it' was everywhere, it sounds as though she is very loose. Lamb bones will bind her stools together, a bit. In part, it sounds as though your puppy's problem is such that she can't contain herself, and if she has the sh0ts, then like the rest of us, she will be having problems.

Alec.
 
I think it is stress, or why would they be so different in texture to her outside ones? I can't help with any solutions maybe Cayla can, but when you let her out of the crate, put it near the door firstly if you can, and then open the door first straight outside with no attention so anything coming out has a fair chance of making it out of the door!
 
As Alec said, if its everywhere, pebble dashing carpets etc sounds like either her diet is rubbish or she's ill.
Mine goes once or twice a day, nice firm, well formed poop. If it was done on a white carpet (its not) you could pick it up with a tissue and not see a mark.
Poor dog obviously can't hold it.
 
I had the same problem with my dog. He had been in a rescue centre for a year before we rehomed him and was incredibly nervous. He was too scared to do any toilet stuff in front of us and had got used to doing everything inside having been kennelled for such a long time.

We ended up getting a big piece of off-cut lino from the carpet shop and putting in our smallest room and putting a baby gate on the door. This was so much easier to manage and avoided nasty smells around the house.

We then followed pretty much the same routine as AmyMay with very early morning outings and then regular visits all day. He was too nervous to scold at all so we just concentrated on huge praise when he started to do wees outside and eventually he cottoned on that everything was to be done outside! Major relief all round.

Its difficult because if they sense your tension around the whole thing it makes it worse and they hide it from you even more.
 
Poor girl, I bet it is stress when she's away from you. My dogs only poo twice a day, unless they're ill. You could try a different food? Mine have nature diet and they produce small, firm poop.
 
I agree with a lot of what has already been said, however it does sound as though its happening more often than it should. Have you ever spoken to a vet about it? There was a young dog came into the rescue I stay in touch with, and she was similar. It turned out to be an illness/bladder issue.
 
3 very important things in your post A, she is never left for long B, She never does it in front of you C, you are very keen to phase the crate out before tackling the toilet issue. Those are where you are going wrong.. I'm about to run out of battery but if you would like me to elaborate a little more (as it will be long) if you send a PM I could steer you in the right direction which would include a strict routine.
 
OP I took on a 3 year old cocker who hD been with a breeder. A good breeder but had been in kennels. She wasn't house trained and it took a while. I still nearly a year on get it wrong sometimes and don't take her out late enough, resulting in an early morning poo in the crate! But overall with help and cayla's guide we have mostly cracked it. Now I'm going through it with a boy puppy! He's getting there as well ?(now 5 months)
With help and remembering to be strict now, with the crate etc and with your training and you will have a happy settled dog, it's worth it :)
 
I fostered a Manchester Terrier who had spent most of his life in kennels in which he was born, he was used as a stud dog then sold on a year ago last February. He was believed to have been rehomed 5/6 times before I had him in October last. Ive no doubt he was passed on because they couldnt house train him, he was neutered a few weeks prior to me having him and he was incredibly nervous.

I crate trained him from the word go, If I couldnt supervise him as in hoovering upstairs or having a shower he was shut in his crate, he stopped weeing pretty quickly but stopping him pooing was very challenging. He gave no warning he just went, I became an expert on when he was next due for a poo, we cracked it in the end and he went on to find a wonderful home and is completely house trained. I suspect OP you have something else going on there as well, your dog is probably suffering from some SA so Cayla would be the best person to seek advice from, she helped me enormously with Billy because at times I could never see him becoming house trained and was beginning to think I would have to adopt him myself.
 
My first two seemed to take forever then my parents in law dogsat one weekend and we came home to trained dogs. They had confined them to a smaller area overnight and volià! I see nothing wrong with dates and I'm sure the current two were helped to toilet train by being in their crate overnight then given a key word as soon as we came down, run out through dog flap to pee area. Even now, hearing 'wees and poos' last thing makes them run out!
 
I got my rescue dog at 10 months she was not toilet trained and also quite anxious about going to toilet. I stuck to using the crate when she was left alone and overnight. She soon cottoned on that she needed to 'go' outside but then had a bit of a relapse when she would poo in the kitchen even though I was getting up at 6am to let her out so the crate came back into use for a little while. Maybe you could persevere with the crate and plenty of exercise.
 
Thank you all so much for taking the time to reply to my plea !! I do appreciate it and I am going back to the vets this afternoon for a chat about her health and just to double check nothing wrong. We had a clean day Saturday..no poo at all and even started going to the back door to ask to go out !! But yesterday 2 accidents both when I went out even though she had been out for toilet breaks and relived herself before. The interesting thing is this was in the middle of a horrific thunderstorm and I had gone out in the thick of it to help my neighbor whose dog had legged it !!...So I am starting to go down the line of stress a bit...Cayla..will pm you later if thats ok but thanks all for the advice. She is a little love and I just want her happy x
 
I think she sounds stressed which is understandable given the changes in her life.

Is it possible for you to change the carpets for something that is easier to clean? Alternatively get one of those industrial wet cleaners in to make sure they are really, really clean (I am not suggesting you have a dirty house, but what appears clean to us can still leave scent traces dogs detect).

Speak to your vet about Adaptil collars and if these work maybe Zylkene tablets as well. They can help some stressy dogs a lot.

I had one dog that had similar toilet training problems. I had tried all the usual stuff as you have but as soon as my back was turned she would go. I finally trained her by literally attaching her to me. I put her on a lead and tied the other end of the lead to me so she was never outside my attention. At other times she was in her crate. Two weeks of this sorted the problem and that was the most extreme toilet training resisting dog I have ever come across. Be careful though if she is a larger dog already that she doesn't pull you over!
 
whenever you go to the loo or anywhere take her with you on a lead in the house or put her in the crate dont ever leave her for a moment loose anywhere when u cant see her.if u see her going scream OUT OUT and get her outside asap.if she dont go put her straight back in crate and try again in half an hour or so.When u are house training a dog u need to be on guard all the time.
 
Hi again all. Just wanted to say a massive thank you for all the advice and support....I don't want to speak too soon but the past 3 days have been poo free.....We saw the vet who is convinced its her diet as she shouldn't be producing so much poobee coupled with stress.So...following advice on here she has gone onto a natural diet and it just seems to have clicked with her that outside is the loo. She even whined at the back door last night to go out....I know we will have accidents but I feel really that she might have turned the corner....Also discovered that my village butcher does 2kg packets of meat to use in nature diet specifically for dogs for 60p !!! Just filled the freezer with enough food for a month for all 3 dogs (as am going to put my 2 on a natural diet as well) for £20.00 !!! Thanks again. Hopefully I can help this poor little girl settle now and give her the love and life she deserves as she really is a lovely girl . Love to you all and your dogs xxxx
 
Well done B_M. Progress!!

Most dogs want to be clean, given the opportunity, and a diet which suits them.

We've a 9 month old lurcher pup, and it seems that whatever we do, we can't deal with his farting. It's overpowering, and I use that word advisedly. "Put him on to raw chicken wings", someone on here said, so ever happy to learn, we did, and it made matters worse. The vet nurse, when he went for his vacs, said take him off the raw food, we did and it got worse if that's believable. Two days ago he ate the larger part of a long time dead and rotten hedgehog, spines and all. This is beyond funny, but strangely, through all of this, his stools are mostly solid, and he is fastidious about cleanliness.

Kevin Bloody Wilson wrote and recorded a song entitled 'Mick, me mate the Master Farter'. I'm thinking of introducing him to Dave, and see what he can make of him!

Alec.
 
Alec Swan said:
Well done B_M. Progress!!

Most dogs want to be clean, given the opportunity, and a diet which suits them.

We've a 9 month old lurcher pup, and it seems that whatever we do, we can't deal with his farting. It's overpowering, and I use that word advisedly. "Put him on to raw chicken wings", someone on here said, so ever happy to learn, we did, and it made matters worse. The vet nurse, when he went for his vacs, said take him off the raw food, we did and it got worse if that's believable. Two days ago he ate the larger part of a long time dead and rotten hedgehog, spines and all. This is beyond funny, but strangely, through all of this, his stools are mostly solid, and he is fastidious about cleanliness.

Kevin Bloody Wilson wrote and recorded a song entitled 'Mick, me mate the Master Farter'. I'm thinking of introducing him to Dave, and see what he can make of him!

Alec.
Click to expand...
Oh Alec....I have just spat tea all over my desk !! The mental images now.......Just brilliant !!! :D
 
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