Tell a gelding, ask a mare...

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m1stify

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You know the old saying:
Tell a gelding, ask a mare, negotiate with a stallion
(think that is right :))
Well can you give me any examples of situations where you would 'ask' a mare to do something differently than you would deal with a gelding? Like real examples?
I have a mare and when she is good she is fantastic, but when she is not co-operating it just ends up as a battle of wills - so I am wondering am I telling her rather than asking if you get what I mean!
 
I can't answer with regards to geldings, as all three of mine are mares.

But I find this very true with my girls. When working/handling, I have a strict routine as to when conflict arises, they all seem to prefer a 'moment', then for me to kindly 'suggest' the next steps, so they believe it was their idea in the first place...

Makes life easy in my case haha :rolleyes:
 
On the 2 or 3 times in her life that my mare has been 'told' in no uncertain terms what to do, the situation has gone pete tong very very quickly. She just goes hysterical, spits the dummy and you can do nothing with her. She becomes downright dangerous. Have a conversation with her, negotiate on an equal footing however and she's a lamb.
 
Immy said:
I can't answer with regards to geldings, as all three of mine are mares.

But I find this very true with my girls. When working/handling, I have a strict routine as to when conflict arises, they all seem to prefer a 'moment', then for me to kindly 'suggest' the next steps, so they believe it was their idea in the first place...

Makes life easy in my case haha :rolleyes:
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No examples of the difference between the two but I agree with the above regarding the 'moment'. Makes me laugh, sometimes she HAS to stop, go forward, stop, go back, go back, go back, go back, stop. Forward and on we go..... always that pattern! Not very often - most recently with pooled water down a tight bridlepath.
 
Can you actually explain how to ask though? Rather than telling e.g, getting her more forward off my leg..
 
Yep I agree with the "moment" too, you get to feel when it is about to go t*ts up and you offer them a way out so that they are still doing what you have asked, you have just slightly altered the question.

An example, **mare stops dead, snorts "mum I cannot possibly go up there, I am preparing to whip round and run home"

**me "poppet do you think you could just keep pointing ahead but turn away from the monster and do a teeny shoulder in for me"

**mare "no worries mum, I am very good at shoulder in, see? see?" la la la settles back down to walk.

Or in the school if it is all getting a bit much you just take the pressure off slightly and vary the question then come back to the original request.

This is also a good idea with geldings as well, but IME you can push a bit harder before offering the climb down way out with a gelding. There is little point setting up for a battle with a mare ;)

Should caveat that with I don't like to battle with any horse, but a gelding will generally take a good hard leg aid and a "get on with it" a bit more graciously than a mare!
 
Immy said:
I can't answer with regards to geldings, as all three of mine are mares.

But I find this very true with my girls. When working/handling, I have a strict routine as to when conflict arises, they all seem to prefer a 'moment', then for me to kindly 'suggest' the next steps, so they believe it was their idea in the first place...

Makes life easy in my case haha :rolleyes:
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this exactly!

m1stify said:
Can you actually explain how to ask though? Rather than telling e.g, getting her more forward off my leg..
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its hard to explain its ether in their character or not - but its not 'right were going to go into the showjumping you are going to pick your feet up and make sure *we* go clear' (not that this is how you should talk to a gelding) if i said this to mine she would crash through everything - its more like 'how about we go and do a bit of jumping, wouldnt it be lovely for everyone if *you* jumped clear' its as if you ask them to do something with out being forceful more placid and let them think they are calling the shots and making the decisions - lots of praise will keep them 'on side'
 
I think you sometimes still need to give firm aids to mares as well as geldings. If mine is ignoring my leg for example, I might give her a clear aid to go forwards but then ask something challenging of her straight away to engage her mind rather than let her get wound up about the firmer aids....hope that makes sense.

I think mares can sometimes get wound up quickly especially when there are disagreements but keeping them thinking and being patient seem to get the best results in my experience. Once they have their confidence in you and trust that you will not worry them unnecessarily you can get a great bond with them, where the disagreements become more few and far between.
 
Suziq77 said:
Yep I agree with the "moment" too, you get to feel when it is about to go t*ts up and you offer them a way out so that they are still doing what you have asked, you have just slightly altered the question.

An example, **mare stops dead, snorts "mum I cannot possibly go up there, I am preparing to whip round and run home"

**me "poppet do you think you could just keep pointing ahead but turn away from the monster and do a teeny shoulder in for me"

**mare "no worries mum, I am very good at shoulder in, see? see?" la la la settles back down to walk.

Or in the school if it is all getting a bit much you just take the pressure off slightly and vary the question then come back to the original request.

This is also a good idea with geldings as well, but IME you can push a bit harder before offering the climb down way out with a gelding. There is little point setting up for a battle with a mare ;)

Should caveat that with I don't like to battle with any horse, but a gelding will generally take a good hard leg aid and a "get on with it" a bit more graciously than a mare!
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this exactly - what i was trying to say but with out the words!!
 
Suziq77 said:
Yep I agree with the "moment" too, you get to feel when it is about to go t*ts up and you offer them a way out so that they are still doing what you have asked, you have just slightly altered the question.

An example, **mare stops dead, snorts "mum I cannot possibly go up there, I am preparing to whip round and run home"

**me "poppet do you think you could just keep pointing ahead but turn away from the monster and do a teeny shoulder in for me"

**mare "no worries mum, I am very good at shoulder in, see? see?" la la la settles back down to walk.

Or in the school if it is all getting a bit much you just take the pressure off slightly and vary the question then come back to the original request.
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This!

Very amusing but spot on :)
 
I drop my reins and let her chill for a couple of minutes and try again, asking a bit more persuasively and trying to be more clear with my aids. If that fails, I battle it through which can be a slog, but is actually worth it to get the end result. Or change what I am asking her to do slightly.
 
These are great answers thank you. My background coming from a RS I guess I learned to tell rather than ask and when I get frustrated with my girl I know I default to the 'tell' mode and then we end up getting nowhere ;)
 
m1stify said:
These are great answers thank you. My background coming from a RS I guess I learned to tell rather than ask and when I get frustrated with my girl I know I default to the 'tell' mode and then we end up getting nowhere ;)
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this is the war we've been referring too! when you feel a war brewing go all gooey and dovvey eyed and tell her how much you love her and her quirky ways but that you'd appriciate it if she tryed something else. but do tell her if shes being naughty and hang on in there or change the question then praise her and tell her how wonderful she is!
 
As said above, you should not go head on against a mare - you also need to realise they are entires and have their off days when hormones are kicking in. If you can't accept there are occasionally days when it does not go to plan, then don't have a mare.

I have only had one very hormonal mare and there were days when I did minimal schooling or went out for a hack. I kept a chart with x on it so I knew when not to plan anything major. She was never a tell, you could sometimes ask, but normally you had to discuss things with her.

Our current girl is lovely, you really don't know she is in season apart from on the rare occasion she is a bit unwilling in the school.

Stinky though a gelding (and I do wonder if he is a bit of a Hermaphrodite as he is broody over foals, even when entire had no interest and hates mares coming on to him, also needs to be asked rather than told to get a good tune out of him. I have to say he is as sensitive as a mare and I treat him as such.

With both my two, I do expect certain things to be done immediately, good ground manners, but when riding do ask and discuss rather than go head on, but this is probably from riding mares for 40 years. Stinky is my first gelding.
 
Good thread ;-)

My mare is FANTASTIC if she agrees that what you're doing is a good idea - you can do anything, don't need a headcollar in yard, jump wiht no tack etc etc and she will give 100%. But if she disagrees then you're stuck! Some days she's like 'right I'm not coming in today, I'm having a field day' - you can catch her but just not lead her in from the field, she goes mental. To start with, everyone at the yard was like, lead her in a bridle, get a chifney, lunge her in to the yard (becuase she gallops round in circles at end of lead rein), try bribing her with food, ride her in.... None of that, whatever you do she gets more dangerous, and then she's a problem the next day too. On the other hand, if you say 'OK that's fine, I absolutely understand and you are indeed allowed your day off' and come back half an hour later she is all sweetness and light.

Similarly loading, if you try and force her, nothing. You sort of have to pretend it's not what you want, but happen to leave some food on the ramp and be standing there having a chat with her about nothing, then she's like 'oh maybe I'll jump in that lorry, that will annoy you'. It's amazing, i love working with her (though sometimes sooooo frustrating!!!).
 
LeannePip said:
this exactly - what i was trying to say but with out the words!!
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:) that's funny, when I read your post I really smiled at your example "how about we go and do some jumping, wouldn't it be lovely if you jumped clear", that's exactly how I talk to my girls about it (actually out loud :eek: )

LeannePip said:
this is the war we've been referring too! when you feel a war brewing go all gooey and dovvey eyed and tell her how much you love her and her quirky ways but that you'd appriciate it if she tryed something else. but do tell her if shes being naughty and hang on in there or change the question then praise her and tell her how wonderful she is!
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Yep, it is hard work to get to 'know' this but once you get there mares are fab aren't they :D


There was a quote on here a while ago, something along the lines of "a good gelding will always try his best, a good mare will give you her heart" or something like that. Not that one is better than the other but as TheresaF say, a mare is an entire.

Keep at it with your girl, love her even when she is a madam - but don't love her too much to insist on good behaviour all the time ;)
 
Oh I forgot my favourite example of mare-ish behaviour about mine that hte jumping one reminded me of earlier. Took her to a show and usually she LOVES jumping, but on this day she was being an absolute cow bag, nappy about leaving her friend, refusing to jump anything, wouldn't stand still, wouldn't wait at lorry. I was thinking well fair enough, she's old, disappointing but can't win them all and I would retire from last class. Untacked her (she was still being stroppy), was just about to retire from the open when it started and someone said well seeing as you've entered you might as well just go on, I thought wellllllll no point really to get eliminated at first fence but seeing as I'm here...

With absolutely no expectations form me at all, she then pops round beautifully and jumps off beautifully and wins the class. I couldn't stop laughing, her face was hilarious, she was just like 'SEE. I play by my own rules.'
 
Oh I do love her believe me love her quirky ways she's the best horse just don't like getting frustrated with her as we can be both pig headed lol
 
Very interesting thread! I am a recent mare owner, having had a gelding for 19 years, and finding it hard. Actual examples are really useful, as I struggled to 'get' the practical side of telling vs asking.
 
Immy said:
I can't answer with regards to geldings, as all three of mine are mares.

But I find this very true with my girls. When working/handling, I have a strict routine as to when conflict arises, they all seem to prefer a 'moment', then for me to kindly 'suggest' the next steps, so they believe it was their idea in the first place...

Makes life easy in my case haha :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

My mare is like that. She is bad to catch. You can't walk up to her and catch her, but I can walk near to her and stand for a moment, then she will walk up to me after she knows she has made me wait for a moment!

I strongly feel that a mare needs to like and trust/respect you. Once you've got that, most will do anything for you and are much more honest. If she doesn't respect you she will walk all over you. I think that mare's strops when they do have a partnership with you are out of fear or misunderstanding, so they need a moment of reassurance and telling that its ok, then they will go on again..

I agree with the poster who said that geldings shouldn't be overly forced. They're the same animal and work the same way, they just slightly take the mickey more sometimes!
 
m1stify said:
Can you actually explain how to ask though? Rather than telling e.g, getting her more forward off my leg..
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I don't think the key is in the 'how to ask' with my mare it is 'when to ask'. If I continue to ask during her back up, back up, back up stage then she starts getting more ancy and goes to turn around and I imagine with some mares it might get a whole lot worse at that point (mine is too half hearted to go much further than this) but if I take the pressure off and let her do her thing and then ask - she usually does it!
 
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Immy said:
I can't answer with regards to geldings, as all three of mine are mares.

But I find this very true with my girls. When working/handling, I have a strict routine as to when conflict arises, they all seem to prefer a 'moment', then for me to kindly 'suggest' the next steps, so they believe it was their idea in the first place...

Makes life easy in my case haha :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

My mare is like that. She is bad to catch. You can't walk up to her and catch her, but I can walk near to her and stand for a moment, then she will walk up to me after she knows she has made me wait for a moment!

I strongly feel that a mare needs to like and trust/respect you. Once you've got that, most will do anything for you and are much more honest. If she doesn't respect you she will walk all over you. I think that mare's strops when they do have a partnership with you are out of fear or misunderstanding, so they need a moment of reassurance and telling that its ok, then they will go on again..

I agree with the poster who said that geldings shouldn't be overly forced. They're the same animal and work the same way, they just slightly take the mickey more sometimes!

Its just a nice phrase, not a rule!
 
Fab thread and all very useful to me too - my gelding hates being told what to do and some of these replies have given me ideas to try that I really think will help. Suziq77 - that was a GREAT description.

Sorry to butt in, OP when I have nothing to offer you - just felt I wanted to acknowledge the help given too :)
 
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