Tell me about border collies for a pet home

[Titchy Reindeer]

Hi there, I'm bored at work for the last day before my holidays, so thought I might as well ask on here about border collies as I know several of you have them. Please note that I'm not ready for a second dog just yet and if it does happen it will be in 6 to 18 months time.
I have always been attracted to border collies, I think they're beautiful, athletic and intelligent. But they've also got a reputation for being a bit crazy in pet homes, some websites I've seen say they shouldn't be kept unless it's for herding (though I think that may be a bit of an extreme point of view). So I got a malinois cross instead (yes, I know...).
So what would it take to keep one happy in a pet home? I live in rural France with almost direct access to pretty much deserted lanes (there is a lot of game around though), I'm dreaming of a dog that could come on hacks with me and pony, I've taken up hoopers with current dog, work from home most the time and my dad comes in to let dog out / walk him when I'm in the office or away for any other reason.
Could I make it work with a border collie or is it just a crazy idea? Anything else I need to know about them before I get myself into trouble?

 

[meleeka]

I wouldn’t have another. I loved the bones of mine, but he was a complex character. The thing is with a BC it’s no good just allowing them free exercise. All you do is end up with a fit, bored dog instead of just a bored one. They need to be busy most of the time to be really happy. They are a bit like a Spaniel in that respect, but without the cheerful nature imo ? I think if I had a farm, they would be pretty perfect, but as a pet, it’s a no from me, sorry.

 

[honetpot]

No, they are bred to work, long hours, so unless you are out all day doing something that they can feel involved in, even if its not technically work, they soon become stressed.

 

[Widgeon]

Just to give a different opinion, my in-laws have a working bred border collie as a pet and they are all very happy. He came from a local farmer whose dogs work but also live in the house with the family. He's been very hard work to train (lockdowns didn't help) but is now about two years old and has settled a lot. He gets lots of walks, swimming, fetch games etc and regular training sessions with his owners and a good local dog trainer / walker to keep his brain busy and engaged with them. They are both mostly retired though, and very active, so he's rarely alone and always has somebody to chat to (he's a very affectionate engaging dog who would climb on your lap if he could) or play a game with.

I think if you work from home, have plenty of time to devote to training and structured games to take the place of "work" for the dog, and you can find a puppy where you know both parents are house dogs and have friendly laid back temperaments, then yes it theoretically could work.

Personally I wouldn't want one, it's like having a part-time job - this was my first real experience of collies and all I can say is that their brains are kind of....different to most dogs I know. To say they're neurotic would be a little unkind but they definitely tend that way if you're not very careful - they are much less forgiving as pets than the terriers and gundog types that most people have around here. The best way I can think to describe it is that it's like trying to train an intelligent but highly strung toddler. So it's doable, but you have to build your life around making sure the dog has what it needs.

 

[satinbaze]

If you are set on a border collie then maybe look at show lines they don’t have the same amount of herding instinct that farm bred ones do. This is obviously a generalisation but worth considering

 

[bonny]

I have had collies all my life, wouldn’t have any other breed and they are certainly not neurotic, highly strung or any of the above. Best dogs in the world in my opinion and the easiest.

 

[shortstuff99]

If you are set on a border collie then maybe look at show lines they don’t have the same amount of herding instinct that farm bred ones do. This is obviously a generalisation but worth considering

Yes I had a showing bred collie (Razda) and she was the best dog anyone could hope for. Brilliant family dog.

 

[Moobli]

I have both full time working and active companion border collies. For farm work they are unbeatable. As a pet/active companion, I think it can work with the right dog. The emphasis being placed on the right dog. Thinking of the dogs in our kennels I’d say about half live for work but the other half would be happy with an active lifestyle in a rural environment as you describe. If I were to advise you I’d say get a rehome/rescue rather than a puppy so you can gauge how driven to work it is.
There’s also show bred border collies but I’ve no idea what they are like in terms of energy and drive. I’m personally not keen on the look of the more NZ/Aussie influenced ones.
Last summer we took on two rehomes. One is an absolute machine and thinks of nothing but work. The other will make a worker but she’s as happy coming for long walks with me, playing with the others and doesn’t have the power or push of the other rehome. She wouldn’t be overly happy in an urban environment (lots of collies get obsessed by cars, bikes etc due to their need to control movement) but in rural France getting plenty of exercise, companionship and training she’d be fine.
The best article I’ve ever seen written about collies as pets is here
https://www.agilitynet.co.uk/training/bordercollie_suekitchen_leewindeatt.html
It gives real insight into the workings of a collie’s mind and why they act the way they do.
And a photo of mine because she’s gorgeous ?

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

We rehomed one. We were at least her 3rd home. and tbh her only fault was that if someone left the gate open she would run off. She lived with 6 other dogs and we had extremely good, high fences. She never tried to get over/under/through the fencing (unlike the jrts!). In the house she was quiet and sensible, got on well with all the other dogs and cats, she brought her own cat with her.
BUT I know a family that has one that literally climbs the walls. I think lack of consistent handling/training is a huge part of the problem but also suspect that some of the behaviour is genetic and this dog would be better in a working home.

 

[Jenko109]

I know a few in pet homes who are very happy dogs. I think its achievable so long as you are happy to put the work in and ideally have a sport in mind to give your dog a job.

 

[Widgeon]

I think lack of consistent handling/training is a huge part of the problem but also suspect that some of the behaviour is genetic and this dog would be better in a working home.

This is what I was getting at really - if you're going to have one as a pet, even one that doesn't have a huge work drive, then you need to bear in mind that they've been bred for something else, and compensate accordingly so the dog doesn't suffer.

 

[BBP]

Mine has definitely been a challenge, even though I thought I knew what I was in for he is a completely different dog to my previous collie. Previous collie would hack out for miles, excellent recall, didn’t chase cars and was genetically quite a strong nerved dog but sharp with people and would bite strangers if given the opportunity. Current collie has a very strong drive to control movement but only if it is alive or mechanical (birds in flight, airplanes, cars, other dogs, horses but no toy drive at all) I had dreams of hacks out with my horses but I don’t trust him near them at all and he is never ever allowed off lead near them, or out on walks, which is completely the opposite to what I thought collie life would be. He is also extremely noise sensitive and goes nuts around wheelie bins, power tools, even my electric toothbrush. He’s quite an anxious dog and doesn’t like being left alone. All of this has improved over the years, and would probably be even better if I had more time, but I do have to be very ‘present’ with him otherwise he goes self employed. He also feeds off my emotions so if I am stressed or anxious he is too. What percentage of this is me being useless at training such a challenging dog (when we got him I had a severe neurological illness which I am sure had a big impact on him) and what is genetics and his early life as a puppy I don’t know. Having said all that, he is a wonderful companion, will take as long or as short a walk as I want and still be excellent in the house, sleeps all day whilst I work. He’s very friendly and cuddly, good with my cats, fairly quiet unless reacting to loud noises. Never chewed anything he shouldn’t (but doesn’t chew things in general which means keeping teeth and gums heathy is tricky.

Would I get another? I don’t know, I think I would be able to take all the learning from this one and do better. I don’t think any other dog matches them aesthetically (not for me) but a part time job is a good way of describing it!

 

[Umbongo]

I had a border collie as a teenager. He was our first family dog and my parents had no idea what they were doing. He was farm bred but didn't have a huge work drive compared to some I have met. I spent a lot of my time as a kid walking him, playing, training and doing agility in the garden. He was treated as a "person" in the family and was always switched on. Not the kind of dog you can just let to run off to exercise themselves, he needed to be involved with you all the time. He was very dog aggressive, he was unsocialised as a puppy and attacked by a large German shepherd. He was also entire. I think all of those factors and him being a collie meant that we did have some behavioural problems around other dogs which was quite stressful. We managed him, but we had to be careful with him all the time.

He loved all people, used to snuggle up with my cat and was my best friend. I would definitely own another knowing what I know now, however I may wait until I have a job that I can bring one to work with me or work from home. Be prepared to put quite a lot of work in to them. They become your constant shadow and require lots of mental stimulation. They are such intelligent, loyal and beautiful dogs but need the right home and job.

 

[CorvusCorax]

Here's another article that popped up on my Facebook yesterday, from someone who trains competition and film dogs.

https://www.vislor.com/blog/border-collie-training-and-puppy-training/

 

[Connemara24]

I have a border collie although think he might have a bit of greyhound in him ?. He is reactive too most things but Mainly other dogs, So have to walk him in the early morning. But he is the most lovable, sweetest dog at home, wouldn't hurt a fly. I would get another. Only gets walked once a day for 1hr - 2hrs but has a large garden and there is always someone at home.

 

[limestonelil]

Totally agree with Moobli, depends completely on the individual animal, and easier to gauge in an adult animal although you can get an idea observing pups if you note behaviour, line history etc. We successfully rehome some of our older collies before they get too knackered working, into private homes of people we know and in every situation it's worked very well for owners and dogs, which adapt very quickly to their new lives. And they come back to us on the farm for free care and kennelling when new owners want holidays. Win/win all round.

 

[Moobli]

Would I get another? I don’t know, I think I would be able to take all the learning from this one and do better. I don’t think any other dog matches them aesthetically (not for me) but a part time job is a good way of describing it!

You’ve worked wonders with him. You carried on when many would have just given up. Imagine all that knowledge and experience he’s given you for your next dog

GSD and border collie ownership is a lifestyle. It is definitely a part time job, and sometimes a full time job.

 

[TPO]

I grew up with collies as mum bred, trained and competed them.

My relations are all farmers so we got a few non-KC working pups from them. I don't know the technical terms but mum competed the working dogs at high level Working Trials and tracking.

She also had and bred show collies.

TBH all of the collies were so well trained that there wasn't a difference between her show and working dogs. The working bred ones were a lot sharper and quicker to learn (& guard us as kids).

She had lots of collie owning friends and there was a marked difference between those working and show dogs.

They are definitely dogs that need a job. Just exercise isn't enough, they need to have something that engages their brain.

When I was walking my dog I've met two couples who've taken in rescue working collies and their homes have been destroyed. Walking 3x a day isn't enough for a dog like that. I've worked beside people who've taken on working lines dogs too and it hasn't gone well because they don't know how to train beyond basic obedience at puppy classes.

So yeah I think that they are brilliant dogs but need the right home and a job.

I'm trying to think now about the show only dogs that others had. Iirc they all did a fair bit of obedience too just to keep their brains ticking over.

In all the dogs (well b'tches) that mum had I think there were only two that were chewers that did some real damage to furniture. That's another thing a lot of them seem prone to do.

Having said all that if you're managing a malinois a collie should be much easier!

 

[Titchy Reindeer]

I wouldn’t have another. I loved the bones of mine, but he was a complex character. The thing is with a BC it’s no good just allowing them free exercise. All you do is end up with a fit, bored dog instead of just a bored one. They need to be busy most of the time to be really happy. They are a bit like a Spaniel in that respect, but without the cheerful nature imo ? I think if I had a farm, they would be pretty perfect, but as a pet, it’s a no from me, sorry.

Thank you for taking the time to reply. Funny, I'm also quite attracted by the English cocker spaniels. I seem to have thing for high energy dogs! I was planning on lots of training and activities to keep brain occupied if I ever did get a border collie, but lots more thinking to do.

 

[Titchy Reindeer]

No, they are bred to work, long hours, so unless you are out all day doing something that they can feel involved in, even if its not technically work, they soon become stressed.

Thank you. It seems I will have to carefully consider as even though I work from home, I will need to be at the computer most the day!

 

[Titchy Reindeer]

Just to give a different opinion, my in-laws have a working bred border collie as a pet and they are all very happy. He came from a local farmer whose dogs work but also live in the house with the family. He's been very hard work to train (lockdowns didn't help) but is now about two years old and has settled a lot. He gets lots of walks, swimming, fetch games etc and regular training sessions with his owners and a good local dog trainer / walker to keep his brain busy and engaged with them. They are both mostly retired though, and very active, so he's rarely alone and always has somebody to chat to (he's a very affectionate engaging dog who would climb on your lap if he could) or play a game with.

I think if you work from home, have plenty of time to devote to training and structured games to take the place of "work" for the dog, and you can find a puppy where you know both parents are house dogs and have friendly laid back temperaments, then yes it theoretically could work.

Personally I wouldn't want one, it's like having a part-time job - this was my first real experience of collies and all I can say is that their brains are kind of....different to most dogs I know. To say they're neurotic would be a little unkind but they definitely tend that way if you're not very careful - they are much less forgiving as pets than the terriers and gundog types that most people have around here. The best way I can think to describe it is that it's like trying to train an intelligent but highly strung toddler. So it's doable, but you have to build your life around making sure the dog has what it needs.

Thank you. It is nice to hear the other side and that it can work with enough commitment.

 

[Widgeon]

I'm also quite attracted by the English cocker spaniels.

Based purely on my on experience, which is minimal with collies but I know a lot of spaniels - I think a cocker would be easier as a pet. I'm sure there'll be some people who disagree but FWIW that's my opinion (although as TPO says if you already have a malinois you must be pretty switched on to the needs of intelligent high energy dogs!)

 

[Titchy Reindeer]

If you are set on a border collie then maybe look at show lines they don’t have the same amount of herding instinct that farm bred ones do. This is obviously a generalisation but worth considering

That is a good idea, thou I'm not entirely sure if there is differenciated breeding over here in France. I've started following some breeders facebook pages to get a better idea. And I will obviously enquire more fully if I ever decide to go ahead.

 

[Titchy Reindeer]

I have had collies all my life, wouldn’t have any other breed and they are certainly not neurotic, highly strung or any of the above. Best dogs in the world in my opinion and the easiest.

Good to know there are collie fans out there! Do you mind me asking what kind of home / management your collies have?

 

[Titchy Reindeer]

I have both full time working and active companion border collies. For farm work they are unbeatable. As a pet/active companion, I think it can work with the right dog. The emphasis being placed on the right dog. Thinking of the dogs in our kennels I’d say about half live for work but the other half would be happy with an active lifestyle in a rural environment as you describe. If I were to advise you I’d say get a rehome/rescue rather than a puppy so you can gauge how driven to work it is.
There’s also show bred border collies but I’ve no idea what they are like in terms of energy and drive. I’m personally not keen on the look of the more NZ/Aussie influenced ones.
Last summer we took on two rehomes. One is an absolute machine and thinks of nothing but work. The other will make a worker but she’s as happy coming for long walks with me, playing with the others and doesn’t have the power or push of the other rehome. She wouldn’t be overly happy in an urban environment (lots of collies get obsessed by cars, bikes etc due to their need to control movement) but in rural France getting plenty of exercise, companionship and training she’d be fine.
The best article I’ve ever seen written about collies as pets is here
https://www.agilitynet.co.uk/training/bordercollie_suekitchen_leewindeatt.html
It gives real insight into the workings of a collie’s mind and why they act the way they do.
And a photo of mine because she’s gorgeous ?

View attachment 104347

Thank you for your reply and I agree, your girl is gorgeous!
That article was a very interesting read, especially the bit about needing a quiet environment when not working. That at least is something I should be able to offer! Also about them not liking change. Change is slow around here (except for crops disappearing in harvest season).
I'll keep in mind the advice to think about a rehome to better have an idea of temperament, but I was more thinking of a pup this time around as my current dog is a rehome and came with some unexpected bagage, though I think (touch wood!) we are over the worst of that.

 

[Titchy Reindeer]

We rehomed one. We were at least her 3rd home. and tbh her only fault was that if someone left the gate open she would run off. She lived with 6 other dogs and we had extremely good, high fences. She never tried to get over/under/through the fencing (unlike the jrts!). In the house she was quiet and sensible, got on well with all the other dogs and cats, she brought her own cat with her.
BUT I know a family that has one that literally climbs the walls. I think lack of consistent handling/training is a huge part of the problem but also suspect that some of the behaviour is genetic and this dog would be better in a working home.

Keeping the gate closed is not that hard and I'm already on it with my current dog. He wouldn't go anywhere far... unless a cat happened to go by...
I think I need to start training my dad and brother in law before I get a collie! Had guests around the other day and found out my monster expects males to feed him at the table! Not hard to guess who the culprits are!

 

[Titchy Reindeer]

I know a few in pet homes who are very happy dogs. I think its achievable so long as you are happy to put the work in and ideally have a sport in mind to give your dog a job.

Thank you, I was thinking to either carry on with hoopers or perhaps try agility.

 

[Titchy Reindeer]

Mine has definitely been a challenge, even though I thought I knew what I was in for he is a completely different dog to my previous collie. Previous collie would hack out for miles, excellent recall, didn’t chase cars and was genetically quite a strong nerved dog but sharp with people and would bite strangers if given the opportunity. Current collie has a very strong drive to control movement but only if it is alive or mechanical (birds in flight, airplanes, cars, other dogs, horses but no toy drive at all) I had dreams of hacks out with my horses but I don’t trust him near them at all and he is never ever allowed off lead near them, or out on walks, which is completely the opposite to what I thought collie life would be. He is also extremely noise sensitive and goes nuts around wheelie bins, power tools, even my electric toothbrush. He’s quite an anxious dog and doesn’t like being left alone. All of this has improved over the years, and would probably be even better if I had more time, but I do have to be very ‘present’ with him otherwise he goes self employed. He also feeds off my emotions so if I am stressed or anxious he is too. What percentage of this is me being useless at training such a challenging dog (when we got him I had a severe neurological illness which I am sure had a big impact on him) and what is genetics and his early life as a puppy I don’t know. Having said all that, he is a wonderful companion, will take as long or as short a walk as I want and still be excellent in the house, sleeps all day whilst I work. He’s very friendly and cuddly, good with my cats, fairly quiet unless reacting to loud noises. Never chewed anything he shouldn’t (but doesn’t chew things in general which means keeping teeth and gums heathy is tricky.

Would I get another? I don’t know, I think I would be able to take all the learning from this one and do better. I don’t think any other dog matches them aesthetically (not for me) but a part time job is a good way of describing it!

It does sound like you've learnt a lot from your dog! My monster also has some issues but nowhere near as many as that. On the other hand he has so many good qualities: Calm in the house, sleeps all night in his basket by my bed, cuddly (if you don't mind pointy elbows shoved in your bladder!), good with kids and rowdy strangers. To the point where I wouldn't swap him for the best trained dog in the world. My sister's dog (australian sheep dog) comes close to being the best trained dog I've ever met (retired breeder, trained before my sister got her) but I'm starting to realise she has a whole load issues, but she internalises them so that its not obvious.
I do hope my monster has made me a better owner for future dogs, border collie or not.

 

[Titchy Reindeer]

I had a border collie as a teenager. He was our first family dog and my parents had no idea what they were doing. He was farm bred but didn't have a huge work drive compared to some I have met. I spent a lot of my time as a kid walking him, playing, training and doing agility in the garden. He was treated as a "person" in the family and was always switched on. Not the kind of dog you can just let to run off to exercise themselves, he needed to be involved with you all the time. He was very dog aggressive, he was unsocialised as a puppy and attacked by a large German shepherd. He was also entire. I think all of those factors and him being a collie meant that we did have some behavioural problems around other dogs which was quite stressful. We managed him, but we had to be careful with him all the time.

He loved all people, used to snuggle up with my cat and was my best friend. I would definitely own another knowing what I know now, however I may wait until I have a job that I can bring one to work with me or work from home. Be prepared to put quite a lot of work in to them. They become your constant shadow and require lots of mental stimulation. They are such intelligent, loyal and beautiful dogs but not for the faint hearted, wrong environment or those looking for an easy dog!

He was a lovely looking dog.
Thank you for the advice. I will think carefully on the environment I offer and if necessary how I can adapt it if I do get a border collie. I don't think any of the types of dog I'm attracted to would be "easy", its just a case of find one that "fits", I suppose.

 

[Titchy Reindeer]

Here's another article that popped up on my Facebook yesterday, from someone who trains competition and film dogs.

https://www.vislor.com/blog/border-collie-training-and-puppy-training/

Thank you, another very interesting article.