Tell me about DNA testing for parentage...

Dusty85

Dusty85

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Hi all,

I was wondering if someone could tell me about DNA testing for parentage. Im interested in a KWPN x Selle Francais. I have been in touch with his breeder who confirms the breeding, although as far as Im aware it states breeding unknown on his passport.

The sire is still breeding and in this country. Im an not sure about the dam- I am waiting to hear back from the breeder.

I have done a bit of reading- do I need samples from both parents? I should hopefully be able to get a hair sample from the sire if I get in touch with the stud where he currently is. Has anyone done this before? How long did it take/costs and were the results conclusive enough?


The other question I have is when you get results confirming parentage, can you then get the passport amended? I am not sure what body the youngster is currently registered with- I assume you approach them etc.

Anyway- any information on this matter gratefully received!
 
The stallions I use are all DNA registered and my mares are also DNA registered with several WB registries so all I do with my foals is to send in hair samples to get their registry papers.

All licensed WB stallions have their DNA registered so if the mare isn't registered you would need a hair sample from her, and from the offspring. Why did the breeder not register their stock? Are the mares they use not breeding approved by the registries perhaps? If that is the case then even if you do get confirmed DNA results you'd only be able to remain in a generic passport scheme rather than having full registry papers.
 
Thank you Spring feather.

I don't know why the dam isn't registered, but she has told me that she isn't. I don't know if she is still around or even if I would be able to get hold of a sample from her.

The sire is registered on the breeding pedigree website and is quite well bred so I'm most interested in trying to get the sire, the dam would just be an added bonus.

Is DNA testing at all possible with only the sire's DNA? Im sure its less accurate, but can it be done?
 
Certainly with certain breeds societies you definitely need DNA from both parents - not sure if that goes for all
 
If the mare is unregistered I dont see the point in going to all that expense and trouble as the horse will never get full papers as the dams side will be missing. Then I assume the he referred to is a gelding so again whats the point. If he does everythiung you want him too that extra piece of knowledge will not make any difference.
If you know who the father is a DNA test will confirm it without having to have the mares DNA but thats as far as it will go you cannot do a DNA test that will tell you who the father is when you dont have any idea. As far as I am aware you will need to check DNA sample with the breeding registry the stallion is registered with as they will have the DNA for him . It is not generally available if not doing it through them. Expense likely to be £200 upwards by the time you are finished.
 
I am 100% sure who the stallion is, he's a KWPN

The only reason I would quite like it is if he doesn't work out I would like to at least have the sire registered on his passport as he is very well bred.
 
I have heard from the breeder- the dam was PTS some time ago- but bought as a brood mare direct from france as she had an injury from Show jumping over there. The breeder was never given her registered name as they didn't want her passed about.

Could be genuine but also could be rubbish I suppose- no way of knowing.
 
So what passport does your horse have now ? If its just a generic one the PIO wont put his sire on the passport anyway. If this is the case no other body can issue a passport for him legally so you are up against it. All sounds fishy to me about them not having her registered name ,how do you know who he is by!! the same breeder who does not know how the mare was bred I am guessing!!! Good luck you may spend a lot to find out you have been stitched up.
 
I don't know what he has now as I haven't bought him- but I'm guessing its just a generic one.

The sire has a KWPN one and is registered.

The lady I'm in contact with is not the person who is selling him, but she's the breeder. She knows the dam was a selle francais, she owned the mare and bred a couple out of her. She has said though that all of hers will be unregistered on the dam side.

She has offered to help me obtain a KWPN passport for him- I have been on the KWPN website and seen the forms that you need a vet to fill out, but obviously I would need something (such as DNA testing- hence why Im asking) to prove that he's the sire.

To be honest, I'm only enquiring about this in case of re-sale, if he's good at his job then ill keep him and it won't bother me
 
If he is KWPN (sire) Is he graded as if not you wont get any breeding papers with him on.
If he has been through his performance test you could register him AES or breeders elite as they will both issue passports for foals by graded stallions irespective of who registered with.However neither them or KWPN are able to issue a new passport when one already exists for the horse however both could overstamp the original passport and record the sire maybe not in passport though. To be very honest talk to KWPN before you go anywhere as regards DNA to make sure you are not wasting your time. Most registries on the continent are a lot cheaper re DNA than you will get it done in the uk.
I have just had a very valuable BWB mare who had a discrepancy on her passport verified as she was who she is they only charged 18 euros for DNA check.
 
I don't use KWPN registry so I'm not that familiar with their requirements however I am a member of Holsteiner, Hanoverian, Oldenburg and Rheinland Pfalz registries and I know that you would not be able to get a registry passport from any of them if the dam is unregistered or the sire is unlicensed. Both the mare and the stallion must be breeding approved in order for the offspring to receive full papers. This is a situation where generally a Sport Horse registry would probably be the route to take as they are not so picky about full pedigrees. I also pay peanuts for the DNA testing of my foals however their sires AND dams DNAs are on file.
 
Not sure if this helps but a breeder bought a mare with a foal at foot. Mare died 2 days later. I enquired about the youngster when I saw it 7 months later and was told she was by a certain stallion. I asked about the mares breeding. I bought the filly cheap, had the mare dug up for DNA and got DNA from the stallion. Then I got her passported with her pedigree.

However this was nearly 15 years ago and not sure if things are different now.
 
Thanks- I know for definite I can get hold of the stallions DNA. The mare is buried on the breeders farm- however I would feel a little rude digging her up for DNA!

Out of interest- was the mare you dug up registered? Because I suspect where this will fall flat on its arse is that I don't think this mare was.
 
Truthfully I can't remember. Think the issue was the filly wasn't passported and she was well bred and I wanted bloodlines certified on paper in case she turned out to be worth breeding from herself. (Never found out, she irreparably broke her leg a 3 yrs old :( )

Mother was by Flagmount Diamond and bought by a good breeder so I imagine she was registered but I could not say that for certain.

I wouldn't ask just any breeder to dig up a horse for testing, I knew him well!
 
I think if the horse in question was a mare or stallion then yes it would be worth chasing about to try get results but if it is a gelding then just keep a record of what you are 'aware' of as it really isn't going to make that much difference anyway.

Said horse will prove himself or not and if not then what's the point in being well bred anyway???
 
I got my horse's passport altered to add his breeding, but I was lucky in that both dam (ISH) and sire (KWPN) were already DNA registered and all we had to do was take a sample of his hair and send it off the the PIA (Scottish sports horse society) and they did the test, confirmed his parentage and issued a new passport. It was barely more expensive than a normal passport anyway, so I did go ahead. Wouldn't have done if it had been more expensive as he's a gelding!
 
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