Tell me about shivering, please?

[catembi]

So, my new ID mare, imported from Ireland in July, is shivering. She passed a 5 stage in Ireland & a health check from my vet on arrival, then last Sunday kicked me in the face while I was field pasting her feet, resulting in A&E visit, memory loss, my face being a mess, visit to maxillo facial surgeon (they decided to leave it alone) & two weeks off work. Thank goodness she's barefoot or it would have been a hell of a lot worse.

I have not dared to pick up her back feet again as I can't actually remember the accident or the following hour so I don't know what I did wrong, so today I had a behaviouralist out to see her. He was v good & was picking her feet up with a soft rope & a padded walkingstick. She was v relaxed about it all, but it was very evident that she was shivering. Repeated spasms in both back legs, & the exact thing that caused my injury.

She is 7. The dealer won't have her back as I had 14 days in which to exchange her. I can't really be bothered sueing all and sundry - dealer, vetting vet, etc etc. I will have to accept that I have lost £5.5k.

Has anyone got an ID shiverer? What is the prognosis like? Can I breed from her or would she pass it on? Any info would be helpful. Obviously I'm going to research it myself, but people's actual experiences would be useful. **sighs** Yet another lame duck in a verrrrry long line of them.

 

[Fools Motto]

Arhh, no!! Sorry to hear about your mare. All is not lost I believe.
Looked after a lovely chestnut ID chap with shivers. you didn't notice he had it till you picked up his hind feet. Just knew not to lift them high, and he got a tube of domosedan 40 mins before farrier. His name is Findus - purely because ''they'' thought he'd be useless. Best hunter, take on any hedge, best hacker, confidence giver out there. Worth his weight in gold.
Only issue was - he trashed his bed.. he was a wet horse and mushed his bedding as he didn't walk - he dragged his feet when moving about. Fine under saddle.

 

[Britestar]

Had big ID that shivered, amongst many other problems. Never stopped him doing anything. Evented to 90 and SJ to 1.10m (limited by rider not horse).

Was a pain to shoe, but farrier was patient.

 

[Clodagh]

Horse where I used to work was a shiverer, SJed to discovery quite happily but shoeing was an issue, he had to be done slowly and with feet only just off the ground. All is not lost OP.

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

Cat, has your vet diagnosed this?

 

[Red-1]

I knew one, didn't affect his ability ridden wise at all, but he became progressively more difficult to shoe until it was not possible to do any more.

He had a good few years of work though.

Some take ages to progress. Some stay quite stable.

I would have a vet take a look though in case it is a muscle spasm or something though.

 

[Auslander]

Alf has shivers, and he competed up to Inter 1. He's not the only advanced horse I have come across that is slight neurological behind, so not necessarily a complete disaster.

 

[TGM]

One of ours has a mild shiver, we've had him seven years now since he was six years old. Hasn't deteriorated in that time and he has successfully evented up to 1*. Previous owners sedated to shoe him behind, but OH is a farrier and has found the knack to shoeing him without now. He is best shod after turnout or exercise, is worse if shod after a night in the stable, for example. There is a knack to lifting the legs as well, not lifting them too high. Stress or excitement seems to make it worse too. (He is a warmblood though, not ID).

 

[Auslander]

There is a knack to lifting the legs as well, not lifting them too high.

Thats very true. Alf isn't shod behind, but he's far easier to trim if my farrier takes his leg out to the side and slightly forward - no leg flapping at all

 

[Starzaan]

Had a livery who was a shiverer. You’d never know unless you picked up his back feet - best hunter I’ve ever sat on.

 

[ycbm]

I have read that vitamin E is extremely important to shiverers, and the vitamin E is thing out of the grass now the sun has gone and the days are getting shorter. It may be that she needs vitamin E. If so, make it the natural stuff or twice the quantity of synthetic, which has only half the active chemical in it. It start with a PSSM level, 10,000 iu a day, and see what happens.

 

[Clodagh]

I have read that vitamin E is extremely important to shiverers, and the vitamin E is thing out of the grass now the sun has gone and the days are getting shorter. It may be that she needs vitamin E. If so, make it the natural stuff or twice the quantity of synthetic, which has only half the active chemical in it. It start with a PSSM level, 10,000 iu a day, and see what happens.

When I read the post I thought I bet ycbm will have a suggestion.
I must say, OP, don't give up hope, look at all the horses on here who have gone on to live normal, active and even high powered lives.

 

[SEL]

Commented on your other post too. I know a part bred Shire who has it and you wouldn't know watching her being ridden. She's in her 20s now but still jumps, hacks and schools nicely. Picking out and trimming feet has to be done with patience, but she's certainly easier to manage than my PSSM mare who struggles with her hinds. YCBM has already mentioned vitamin E otherwise I was going to bring that up too.

I'm not sure I would breed from a mare with it though, without a really good investigation to see whether any of her siblings / dam / sire etc also shiver. Its one of those things that is likely to be hereditary because it seems to run in heavy horse blood lines.

 

[FabioandFreddy]

Unfortunately its a how longs a piece of string question as it affects each horse differently. Fabio was a shiverer. He was fine for a number of years, i had him from a 4 yr old and done a bit of everything with him. Had to have him pts at 12 as the last year his shivers worsened considerably in the space of a few months.
I will say that the more work they're in, the better it seems to be - same for turnout. Far better than when stabled. There are various supplements you can try, but tbh i didn't really find anything that worked but did feed high levels of vitamin E as helps.
Hope you get round the picking of the feet issue. And it may not get any worse, just no way of knowing unfortunately

 

[catembi]

The vet has just been and we have a diagnosis of mild shiver. Left with a high spec vitamin E supplement. So there we have it. Oh well.

 

[SEL]

The vet has just been and we have a diagnosis of mild shiver. Left with a high spec vitamin E supplement. So there we have it. Oh well.

Any thoughts on going back to the dealer?

 

[catembi]

I have phoned the BHS members' legal helpline and they haven't phoned me back yet. I think that I would have paid £3k for her if the shivers had been disclosed, so that's £2.5k out of pocket, plus around £800 of vet bills looking into the hoof wall defect, plus potentially a personal injury claim for getting kicked in the face & having 2 weeks off with concussion. However, if my vet said it's subtle enough for it to be 'allowable' to miss it in a 5 stage & the dealer denying all knowledge, it's going to be hard to pin it on anyone. Plus on my Tackroom post, someone has said that a few people have won claims against this dealer, but no-one (it seems) has managed to extract any money. So I think the long & short of it is, I could spend a lot of time & money sueing all & sundry, I might or might not get a financial award & it's v unlikely that I'd ever see a penny. So the alternative is to say **** it, she's a good horse (I think...from the half-dozen times I've ridden her before she went lame...) so we will just accept that I need to be v careful with the back feet in future and the dealer & her vet will get away with it. It does seem to be the way of the world - if you've got the brass neck, you try stuff on & get away with it.

 

[texel]

Sorry to hear about your horse, as already mentioned all is not lost, here is a link to a very good article on Shivers which should provide you with all you need to know.

https://cvm.msu.edu/research/faculty-research/valberg-laboratory/information-on-shivers

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I have phoned the BHS members' legal helpline and they haven't phoned me back yet. I think that I would have paid £3k for her if the shivers had been disclosed, so that's £2.5k out of pocket, plus around £800 of vet bills looking into the hoof wall defect, plus potentially a personal injury claim for getting kicked in the face & having 2 weeks off with concussion. However, if my vet said it's subtle enough for it to be 'allowable' to miss it in a 5 stage & the dealer denying all knowledge, it's going to be hard to pin it on anyone. Plus on my Tackroom post, someone has said that a few people have won claims against this dealer, but no-one (it seems) has managed to extract any money. So I think the long & short of it is, I could spend a lot of time & money sueing all & sundry, I might or might not get a financial award & it's v unlikely that I'd ever see a penny. So the alternative is to say **** it, she's a good horse (I think...from the half-dozen times I've ridden her before she went lame...) so we will just accept that I need to be v careful with the back feet in future and the dealer & her vet will get away with it. It does seem to be the way of the world - if you've got the brass neck, you try stuff on & get away with it.

That sounds like the least stressful way forward for you.
At least there are lots of people on here who have been following your story, who will presumably take care not to fall for the same tactics and who will warn their friends and acquaintances who are considering buying from the same dealer. These things do come back to bite people like the dealer eventually.

It does sound as if you have got a nice horse who will do most of what you want her to do, you were considering keeping her barefoot anyway but you have paid over the odds for her, especially when you consider the vet bills. Equally you could have bought a cheaper horse that did a tendon in the first fortnight and that could have cost at least as much and needed a lot of box-rest.
I hope your face is recovering well and that you get to enjoy Summer, as you originally intended.

 

[maggiesmum]

I've found a noticeable improvement in symptoms with the elevated Vit E adn the addition of L-Tryptophan @ 10g twice per day. I' also experimenting with a Rambo ionic rug and it seems to be helping too.