Tell me it gets better / easier aka the search for forwardness

[Boulty]

The Fuzzball has not exactly been a problem free horse. He was seeing an osteopath for back (or as it turned out back / gut) issues for just over a year before he was backed . He's never moved quite 100% straight in front & tends to land laterally, this only seems to bother me & his trimmer but the vet, the osteo & physio can't find major issues that would cause it & find it on the whole unconcerning. He does have some sidebone in both fronts that vet thinks looks pretty inactive / unlikely to cause any problems (found when I insisted on foot x-rays when they were x-raying his face after he sliced it open down to his jawbone).

Anyway we've seemed mostly on top on his various issues for a while so he was professionally backed at back end of Spring (having spent about a year being longreined, led out inhand & doing inhand polework exercises prescribed by physio & osteopath). All went ok other than him being extremely nappy in the school. Did put some weight on whilst he was away despite being muzzled for turnout & being worked twice a day & I feel he's put more on since he came back despite being muzzled for turnout (with added duct tape to stop side-eating) & coming in for around 10hrs a day (he clearly is getting far too much even with the muzzle as he barely eats any hay whilst in). Does seems slightly footsore & we have a lot of stoney tracks so have started hacking him in boots but not sure I've found the 100% right ones yet as the ones he looks to breakover best in I don't think he trusts the grip on & the others don't seem to offer as much protection as they aren't really designed to take a pad which he seems to need.

He is just so very very lacking in any kind of go / any sign that he's actually enjoying his work though & the way that I'm having to ride him / being advised to ride him makes me sad. To get him to move out of minimal effort plod requires whip to back my leg up, even out hacking & I just don't enjoy having to keep driving him on every few minutes. I really really try to keep my leg off when he IS going nicely but left completely to his own devices he would just stop & stand there. He spooks at very little & will keep ploughing on through undergrowth & low tree branches etc but I don't feel like he gets any joy from any of it / that he actively likes being out & about (He maybe likes it marginally more than schooling). Sadly nothing else at yard is ridden right now so we do all our hacking on our own.

I am in the process of hopefully moving him to a track system which I pray will help his weight & his feet. (& also give us riding buddies) He's also seeing the osteopath again tomorrow. Am also trying to arrange for his saddle to be checked as I think it's slipping forwards slightly, especially going downhill (which he does seem to be struggling with a bit) & am worried it might be restricting his shoulder, it's probably about due its first check anyway. (It'll either be fixable or the little sod will have earned himself yet another holiday whilst I find another one). I think this is a recent thing & physio didn't find anything really tension-wise on their last check about a month ago.

If all this checks out ok & he's still the same after osteo, saddle adjustments (if needed) & hopefully some weight loss then erm is there hope that there's a more forward, willing horse in there somewhere that fitness or schooling will eventually reveal or is it likely that (given that there's a long list of things he's done to delay starting work as much as possible) workshy minimal effort is his default setting & that I may be stuck with a horse that I don't really enjoy riding? I guess the alternative is to go hunting for health issues in a horse with very low mileage whilst questioning his future soundness prospects. (He is a horse I've considered PSSM testing before in but both physio & osteo feel this is highly unlikely & I know the type 2 test isn't that reliable... Have also considered testing for EMS / IR in the past but he has always lost weight with the muzzle / in winter before so again was advised there wasn't any benefit to doing this) I know that nobody actually has a crystal ball so this is mainly just me being a bit self pitying to be honest as I swing between worrying that there's something going wrong with him again / worrying that there isn't anything wrong & that this is just who he is.

 

[Caol Ila]

I dunno...It sounds rubbish and super frustrating. Was he forward enough on the long reins and with polework?

I helped back a young Highland mare who was very behind the leg in all things, until she started hacking with her owner's other horse. That perked her right up, and she was able to learn forwards from that point.

I also had a QH - my own horse - who became very sluggish and behind the leg. She tested positive for hypothyroidism. Her daily dose of thyroid meds really helped. Worth taking bloods and testing for stuff like that?

Those are the only suggestions I've got, other than a full lameness work-up or Bute trial. I am sure other posters will have more useful ones.

 

[SEL]

Nutrition wise is he on a decent balancer, getting enough vitamin E etc?

Although some horses do need to understand what forward means everything I've had that's been behind the leg has had a physical issue. I've got one with PSSM who started to nap around 7 - took a while to have a chronic suspensory issue identified. My current youngster is weak behind and gets sticky stifles when he's having a growth spurt.

A friend who was insistent there was nothing wrong with her youngster has just discovered hock arthritis.

The other thing to think about is ulcers even with the fatties. Being backed away from home is stressful and muzzles don't help (rock & hard place I know). I know lots of people have had success with aloe Vera

Does your physio watch him trot up? No niggles?

 

[planete]

You could be writing about my pony. The turning point for him has been a daily dose of natural vitamin E. I have not had him tested for PSSM2 and will not as we seem to have found the answer to his problems. Turning him out with other horses in the same field instead of in the fields next to him also seems to have improved his psychological well being. Riding wise, I realised urging him on was counter productive and literally sat on him until he got bored and offered movement then made myself tune into his natural rhythm before asking for a few strides at a time of more activity and rewarding him with a treat for a few good strides to start with. It was 'trot to the next marker', stop, reward until he started looking forward to the exercise then building up on it. It has taken a good year to turn him into a nearly normal pony.

Edited: he spent two days at an equine hospital for loss of performance as well during that time. Nothing apart from the weak right front left hind weakness I was already working on.

 

[scats]

One of the first signs for me that Millie wasn’t quite right was that she suddenly started being reluctant to go forwards in the school. She wouldn’t refuse to move, but she would be lazy about it and put minimal effort in. Could the side bone actually be causing more issues than anyone realises? My mare has very, very mild coffin joint arthritis and navicular. The vet showed me her X-rays compared to others and the changes were very minute, but it was clearly enough to affect her.
I also found that she was slower on hacks, plodding along rather than striding out.

If he is overweight, that might be causing the sluggishness, particularly if he has an underlying condition like EMS.

 

[cauda equina]

In view of the previous gut issues it might be worth getting the Equibiome test done

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I would definitely get your saddle looked at if it's tight in front something that simple can cause a reluctance to move, once that is ruled out and if it still is not improved I would get a referral to an Equine hospital and get a lack of performance work up done, they will literally check everything and in my experience this is the best way forward when there is a few niggles but nothing you can really put your finger on.

 

[Bernster]

Hmm, always tricky with these ones as it’s a bit of a needle in the haystack and you could go down a long and winding route to try and find any underlying cause. It sounds like you’re working through the obvious and it’s certainly possible that pain or discomfort is causing this, or at least isn’t helping. Being overweight and unfit (if he’s not fit) also won’t help but again you’re working through this.

The one bit I can add from experience is that some of it may just be him. Finnegan is naturally laid back and a bit lazy. He’s better in the school now (lots of lessons to get him going properly) and he can get a bit jollier doing fast work. I’m also much better now at getting him going at competitions etc but it takes a bit of work! But given his underlying nature, he’ll always be a bit behind the leg.

He’s just not a fizzy forward type. I’ve accepted that as I value how safe and easy he is - I can take him hunting one day and put a novice on him for a hack the next.

ETA I did get a 2nd horse last year who’s more forward, as I do prefer something with a bit more whizz.

 

[millitiger]

We didn't necessarily have any physical issues but my boy was big, weak and behind the leg and used to be incredibly frustrating.
I tried vitamin E as thought maybe PSSM, I had multiple physio and vet checks and they all said he was just laid back.

We bumbled along for a year or two, not really making progress, until I took him for a season hunting.

It installed forwards and, I think also as important, it gave him the tools to dig a bit deeper and keep trying even if he was tiring and helped his mindset a lot.

In less than 12 months, he has now won multiple RC champs, 3 x ODEs and is working towards going out at Medium in autumn and it definitely doesn't feel like he is topping out.
He is still steady and reliable and a perfect nanny horse, just now in front of the leg and has a bit more spark when I ask!
I do feel he now tries a lot harder for me and has a better work ethic.

Obviously not for everyone but now is the perfect time to start getting out on hound exercise, assuming you do rule out physical issues.

 

[millitiger]

I don't know if this helps you, but the link below explains far more eloquently what I am getting at, raising my expectations ( mine happened to be hunting) gave my horse purpose and changed our relationship to something super solid.

Well worth a read, even if you aren't having these issues!

https://www.facebook.com/1000445515...wrBkCn6QNno8QpksReRqkAj7QLf86akJZD7yKPnHQvpl/

 

[Boulty]

So looks like general consensus is to travel deeper down the rabbit hole.

Had his checkup with Tom Beech today & not found anything too terrible but he agrees that saddle does seem to be slipping forward & also to the right although the reasons are possibly a bit more complex than "saddle doesn't fit". He feels that him being overweight is affecting where it's able to sit & also that his natural downhilledness & tendency to go on his forehand are probably all combining. (has also said in his opinion shimming may be a better option than doing too much to the actual saddle if I intend to get rid of the excess weight as it probably will fit again if he slims down). Am awaiting response still from saddler but am upgrading my request from "please check at some point soon" to "I'm not happy to ride in this until you look at it". Back to lunging & longreining we go. My legs have not missed this!

Track system move is hopefully go, just waiting on potential dates & paperwork etc.

He does get supplemental vit E as am conscious that he's always restricted to some degree. May trial increasing it.

I think current plan is see if we can get the saddle to stay put, then see how he feels now he's had his osteo treatment. If no improvement at all from that then will chat to vet re poor performance workup. If improved a bit then will pray for weighloss & see if that helps further (Tom seems to think it will help literally every single issue he has if the excess comes off & stays off)

I don't think hunting would be a realistic aim for this year as he's nowhere near fit enough & I also now am saddless until it's been looked at but will bear in mind as an idea for next year if we get him to a stage where we're happy he's sound but further motivation is needed.

 

[RachelFerd]

So looks like general consensus is to travel deeper down the rabbit hole.

Had his checkup with Tom Beech today & not found anything too terrible but he agrees that saddle does seem to be slipping forward & also to the right although the reasons are possibly a bit more complex than "saddle doesn't fit". He feels that him being overweight is affecting where it's able to sit & also that his natural downhilledness & tendency to go on his forehand are probably all combining. (has also said in his opinion shimming may be a better option than doing too much to the actual saddle if I intend to get rid of the excess weight as it probably will fit again if he slims down). Am awaiting response still from saddler but am upgrading my request from "please check at some point soon" to "I'm not happy to ride in this until you look at it". Back to lunging & longreining we go. My legs have not missed this!

Track system move is hopefully go, just waiting on potential dates & paperwork etc.

He does get supplemental vit E as am conscious that he's always restricted to some degree. May trial increasing it.

I think current plan is see if we can get the saddle to stay put, then see how he feels now he's had his osteo treatment. If no improvement at all from that then will chat to vet re poor performance workup. If improved a bit then will pray for weighloss & see if that helps further (Tom seems to think it will help literally every single issue he has if the excess comes off & stays off)

I don't think hunting would be a realistic aim for this year as he's nowhere near fit enough & I also now am saddless until it's been looked at but will bear in mind as an idea for next year if we get him to a stage where we're happy he's sound but further motivation is needed.

I'm just latching onto the comment about getting his weight down - if that is the steer you're getting from Tom, I'd be embarking on a fully planned out fitness programme designed to get his weight right down. Much like us, if they're a bit podgy (or worse, genuinely obese) they're going to struggle to be energetic and forwards.

Can you change the situation so that you are somewhere you can hack in company? And really start to up the mileage you're doing? I've found very few horses that don't develop a bit more lust for life when they've got company and get to travel at speed.

 

[Red-1]

I don't know if this helps you, but the link below explains far more eloquently what I am getting at, raising my expectations ( mine happened to be hunting) gave my horse purpose and changed our relationship to something super solid.

Well worth a read, even if you aren't having these issues!

https://www.facebook.com/1000445515...wrBkCn6QNno8QpksReRqkAj7QLf86akJZD7yKPnHQvpl/

This is my approach too, once physical issues are ruled out as much as possible.

My BH isn't at all interested in schooling. He is a big ol' Irish, obliging, kind and... simply doesn't see the point of trotting circles.

My original trainer, from when I had more sporty horses, wanted me to be strict with the whip and wear spurs. I briefly gave it a try, it simply made him disengage in the learning process. I stopped schooling circles at all for a while.

We did hacking, jumping (he saw the point in cantering circles in an arena to jump jumps), cow work, cross country, kicking a fitness ball around, flying round the field with a flag etc etc. He became happy, fitter, confident and soon we could go back to the arena and trot some circles. He was happy enough to oblige and I was careful not to drill him.

Some days, he would still stall. I found a trainer on my wavelength, where, on a slow day, he would only have to trot 5 strides then walk. 5 strides then walk. That was not tricky and he is obliging enough so soon he was offering to go into trot, then offering to stay in it. He saw the benefit of throwing himself into the work as he then got a break.

We just had a fabulous camp, where he was fully engaged in all 3 phases (dressage, SJ and XC), and last weekend a beach camp where he was trotting and cantering all over, including circles.

If I had stayed in the dogma of getting trot circles on the school sorted before moving on, he would have quit on the job, I am sure. Other, more spicy, horses that I have owned liked the regularity if repeated circles. It seemed to comfort them. This one doesn't need comfort, he needs entertaining!

 

[Boulty]

I'm just latching onto the comment about getting his weight down - if that is the steer you're getting from Tom, I'd be embarking on a fully planned out fitness programme designed to get his weight right down. Much like us, if they're a bit podgy (or worse, genuinely obese) they're going to struggle to be energetic and forwards.

Can you change the situation so that you are somewhere you can hack in company? And really start to up the mileage you're doing? I've found very few horses that don't develop a bit more lust for life when they've got company and get to travel at speed.

The plan is he's hopefully off to live on a track system & he'll spent winter living out there fully clipped with the lightest rug I can get away with. He consistently does lose weight over Winter anyway but even muzzled for all grazing & having him off grass 10 hrs a day (with access to hay that he chooses mostly not to eat) haven't been able to keep on top of him gaining it this year where we are now. Will longrein & lunge / other inhand work until saddle sorted & then resume ridden work. We might have company if we move or things might go tits up & everyone else's horses may end up lame / retired... Who's to say? (Technically I would have company where I am now had YO not had to retire hers through lameness at start of year... Best laid plans & all that!) Would be nice but not getting my hopes up.

 

[Aperchristmas]

I think your new setup sounds ideal for this problem - it should help get his weight down and hacking in company might help him realise that it's fun! Once you have the saddle sorted I'd keep going and then reassess when he's lost some weight. If he's still not feeling better then more investigation might be needed.

 

[Boulty]

Yeah I'm not a believer in magic bullets generally but keeping my fingers crossed that moving him might be if it all comes together. Otherwise I'm off to go & be depressed in a corner...

Really really desperately want to start doing the fun stuff with him but I need to be happy he's right first. He's also still quite immature mentally so moving things too quickly blows his brain a bit anyway.

 

[GreyDot]

Providing your saddle fits better with the shims, is a fun ride not an option? I can understand with his level of fitness and weight that hunting woulnd't be at this point, but if you can get him to a fun ride, the atmosphere usually perks even the laziest horse up.

 

[Bernster]

I can def attest to that GD! Finns on his toes the first 15 mins or so then relaxes and we generally have a lovely ride with more ‘gas in the tank’!