Temperament and Breeds

Clodagh

Clodagh

Playing chess with pigeons
Joined
17 August 2005
Messages
29,024
Location
Devon
Visit site
Crufts again!
Watching the gundogs, not all of them looked happy - the goldie did (was a sad one ever born?) but all seemed good natured about being handled, with eye contact and as relaxed a posture as you are likely to achiever in a show ring like Crufts.
Compared to the Pastoral, who nearly all seemed very uptight. From the Anatolian Shephed who went for the judge, to the next one (a blue heeler I think?) that the handler showed the teeth for. The GSD looked like it was too polite to say anything, but not happy. Lots of tense dogs not enjoying being handled by a stranger. The border collie looked unsettled. Is that because as a group they are tempermentally different to giundogs, and are bred for guarding and herding, so therefore need a 'bit more about them'? Or just pot luck in the examples presented? I was glad he didn't shortlist anything visibly aggressive!
 
A gundog is by nature going to be more biddable and less worried by strangers than a livestock guardian, IMO, and it's even written into a few breed standards (I recall something for sibes about a measure of aloofness being expected in the adult dog)

I think it's as much to do with being in the main arena as anything else - even an experienced dog could be rattled by it, a group ring at any other champ show doesn't even come close to the noise, lights etc. of Crufts.
 
I don't watch Crufts, tbh it makes me cringe but certainly one of our Rotties would hate to be in that kind of situation with strangers poking and prodding her, the other is so 'hail fellow, well met' that she would probably enjoy it, life is an adventure to her and she savours every new experience.
We have had Labs which were more nervous than others but even they were much more relaxed about life than our guarding Rotter. I think you are right, Clodagh the livestock guardians are a different kettle of fish from gundogs by nature - although we had a border collie who seemed to take everything in her stride even if she was definitely more aloof than the Labs.
 
I am surprised that the Anatolian was allowed to stay in the ring, surely it should have been excused. The judge did appear to be rather cautious on handling the remaining dogs.
My flatcoats love being in the ring and young Meera was a star on the discover dogs stand yesterday
 
I agree Satinbaze, the AS should have been asked to leave the ring. I can't speak for other breeds but breed specialist judges of GSDs very rarely go over them in the way some of these all rounders do, so the dogs really aren't used to being prodded like that, I suspect Hettel (the GSD) was thinking, wtf are you doing! I also hate the way some judges open mouths and check teeth themselves, sure way to spread any germs. and a rough judge can put off a young dog. I have always shown my dogs teeth to the judge rather than let them do it.
 
I don't know how the smooth did, sorry MOC! I do think my dogs would hate a stranger looking in their mouth, feeling their bits and poking them. The GSD looked non plussed more than anything!
 
I hate the way some the dogs are being inspected by the judge and at the same time the handler is stuffing treats into them....surely a show dog should learn to just stand and accept being prodded ?
 
Blazingsaddles said:
I think handling of the dog when they are puppies is essential. Going over them, touching parts that aren’t normally touched & getting them used to standing still whilst being touched is an education for them. Not only is beneficial when showing but also when the vet needs to examine them.
Click to expand...
Yes , my show dogs were all used to being handled by vets etc from an early age, they just wouldnt expect it to happen in the show ring. :)
 
Why would anyone be surprised at an Anatolian going for a judge? They are guarding dogs through and through and notoriously unpredictable temperament-wise.
 
I
MurphysMinder said:
Yes , my show dogs were all used to being handled by vets etc from an early age, they just wouldnt expect it to happen in the show ring. :)
Click to expand...
I don’t understand? 🙂Getting your dog to stand whilst being felt over either in a clinic or a ring or in the street by a stranger shouldn’t make a difference. Certainly, a vet clinic can be stressful as can the show ring.
 
bonny said:
I hate the way some the dogs are being inspected by the judge and at the same time the handler is stuffing treats into them....surely a show dog should learn to just stand and accept being prodded ?
Click to expand...
I may be contradicting what I have previously written🤪 but some dogs , personality wise, can be more nervy. Treats distract them. I’m all for getting a dog to behave to your liking even if that means copious amounts of treats!
 
That would be a dismissal and a written report/breeding ban, depending on some judges in my breed....where, as MM says, it's only really a microchip reading (although not at KC events, ho hum) and a teeth and testicles check. I've actually seen some stick a pen in the dog's mouth for whatever reason. Back in the day there was a lot of clipboard flapping as well. I've seen a dog sent out for shying away from a video camera held low to capture movement.
In my own sport the dog has to be touched by the judge (who asks permission - but you can't say no and they're going to anyway :p) in the very basic temperament test and must have an official vet check before and on arrival at big competitions before they take part, which can be quite invasive.
In these litigious times, it's not really surprising.
 
CorvusCorax said:
That would be a dismissal and a written report/breeding ban, depending on some judges in my breed....where, as MM says, it's only really a microchip reading (although not at KC events, ho hum) and a teeth and testicles check. I've actually seen some stick a pen in the dog's mouth for whatever reason. Back in the day there was a lot of clipboard flapping as well. I've seen a dog sent out for shying away from a video camera held low to capture movement.
In my own sport the dog has to be touched by the judge (who asks permission - but you can't say no and they're going to anyway :p) in the very basic temperament test and must have an official vet check before and on arrival at big competitions before they take part, which can be quite invasive.
In these litigious times, it's not really surprising.
Click to expand...

Yes, I have had judges that have roughly handled my dogs. Some judges need educating or perhaps the cynic in me believes it’s a ploy to unnerve the dog for whatever reason😉
 
Blazingsaddles said:
I don’t understand? 🙂Getting your dog to stand whilst being felt over either in a clinic or a ring or in the street by a stranger shouldn’t make a difference. Certainly, a vet clinic can be stressful as can the show ring.
Click to expand...

I can't speak for all dogs but there is a difference for mine - he goes to ringcraft to learn to be poked and prodded by judges and comes to work in a vet clinic so no issues there. If a stranger on the street tried the same he'd become a snarling bundle of spitzy indignance. :p Context and training is everything.
 
blackcob said:
I can't speak for all dogs but there is a difference for mine - he goes to ringcraft to learn to be poked and prodded by judges and comes to work in a vet clinic so no issues there. If a stranger on the street tried the same he'd become a snarling bundle of spitzy indignance. :p Context and training is everything.
Click to expand...

True.
 
Mwah ha ha - what did I say BC? He chose the bloody whippet bitch for BOB! From yearling FFS! Just because Zena Thorn-Andrews put it up.........

Like the Ridgeback :)
 
Oh I agree with you Clodagh, I think all dogs in the show ring should be moved on a loose lead. In my experience although the lead is taut when a dog is moved ‘strung up’ it isn’t tight enough to cause discomfort or the dog has an unhelpful habit of choking and coughing, which hardly shows off its movement properly. Having said that, in my dozen or so forays into a show ring with my whippets 30 years ago I always moved them on a loose lead
 
Levrier said:
Oh I agree with you Clodagh, I think all dogs in the show ring should be moved on a loose lead. In my experience although the lead is taut when a dog is moved ‘strung up’ it isn’t tight enough to cause discomfort or the dog has an unhelpful habit of choking and coughing, which hardly shows off its movement properly. Having said that, in my dozen or so forays into a show ring with my whippets 30 years ago I always moved them on a loose lead
Click to expand...

Do you know that makes perfect sense, it can't be as bad as it looks as they aren't coughing.
 
Although I prefer a loose lead some dogs need a slight amount of tension on the lead. Think of it like taking up the contact on the reins. The kennel club does state that the lead must not be so tight the front legs lose contact with the floor. I think terrier handlers are the worst culprits but things are much better than even 10 years ago.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top