Testing for pssm?

[TheSubwayDino]

Hi all,
I'm currently having a cheeky little browse here and there about owning a horse. I am planning on getting something like a belgian draft but was advised to get a pssm test during the vetting. I'm quite unfamiliar with pssm so apologies for the ignorance.

How long does pssm testing take? Grade 1 and 2? If so, if the smallest chance of pssm is present should I just walk away immediately? I haven't had to deal with pssm but it seems horrific and I'm sorry if you hold that experience

 

[SEL]

If it's a Belgian draft then type 1 is really common in the breed BUT they aren't particularly symptomatic. In the UK you test via a hair sample sent to Animal Genetics UK and it takes about 9 days to get the results.

It's the one breed I'd buy a PSSM positive horse without worrying and as many people on this forum know I have a mare (Appy X draft) who is badly affected by the disease. But I also have a Belgian Ardennes who is asymptomatic.

The science bods haven't really got to the bottom of why some horses are affected more than others but Draft horses have a higher % of slow twitch muscle tissue which is believed to be less affected.

If I was buying I'd want to check there was no muscle wastage, the horse was already doing the work I wanted it to do and I may ask the vet to run bloods to check muscle enzymes weren't elevated. I probably wouldn't buy one from the dealer who keeps importing youngsters - although he had a cracking Ardennes youngster the other week

 

[Nasicus]

I recently had two of mine tested for PSSM1 with Animal Genetics: https://www.animalgenetics.eu/Equine/Genetic_Disease/PSSM.asp
Easy-peasy, had to pluck about 30 hairs with root attached (I opted to twirl a small amount around my finger against the base of the mane and sharply pull, got more than enough in one go and frankly they didn't even notice) and send it off with form attached. I noted on there I was paying over the phone and they rang me prior to testing the sample to make payment.
Took about 7 working days to get the result back, £30 a test.
They only test for PSSM1, PSSM2 is a lot more complicated from my reading, requires a muscle biopsy. I don't think PSSM2 is as much of a concern for draughts as PSSM1, but that's from my very limited reading on it. I could be hideously wrong however, and I'm sure someone will correct me in due course!

In theory, if you're vetting a potential purchase, you've got the time between viewing and the vetting to have taken hair at viewing and sent off for testing the same day, for results back by the time you get a vetting appointment.

 

[ycbm]

I wouldn't normally buy a horse that tests positive for type 1, which is a hair test that takes a few days, but I'm very interested to see Sel's advice above, and she knows the breed. The type 2 test is unfortunately not yet reliable, but in a breed known to be rife with it I might ask my vet to run the blood for muscle enzymes. That's in no way conclusive but it could flag an issue.

 

[SEL]

Btw - until the dealer I mentioned above started importing them there weren't many Belgians in the UK. So if you see one then pop on the Belgian and Ardennes Facebook page and ask if anyone knows it. Another dealer had a lovely little mare for sale a month ago and it took me less than 10 mins to track down the previous owner to find out she'd moved on a horse that had run off with her too many times. The dealer was selling it as a novice ride until old owner then got in touch.

 

[TheSubwayDino]

If it's a Belgian draft then type 1 is really common in the breed BUT they aren't particularly symptomatic. In the UK you test via a hair sample sent to Animal Genetics UK and it takes about 9 days to get the results.

It's the one breed I'd buy a PSSM positive horse without worrying and as many people on this forum know I have a mare (Appy X draft) who is badly affected by the disease. But I also have a Belgian Ardennes who is asymptomatic.

The science bods haven't really got to the bottom of why some horses are affected more than others but Draft horses have a higher % of slow twitch muscle tissue which is believed to be less affected.

If I was buying I'd want to check there was no muscle wastage, the horse was already doing the work I wanted it to do and I may ask the vet to run bloods to check muscle enzymes weren't elevated. I probably wouldn't buy one from the dealer who keeps importing youngsters - although he had a cracking Ardennes youngster the other week

Very interesting, I've always been told to immediately drop when pssm was present. Which seems quite difficult especially how common it is with belgian drafts. May I ask who the dealer you're talking about is? You can always pm me them- I am planning on buying from a breeder in Essex since that's a bit more local to me

 

[TheSubwayDino]

I recently had two of mine tested for PSSM1 with Animal Genetics: https://www.animalgenetics.eu/Equine/Genetic_Disease/PSSM.asp
Easy-peasy, had to pluck about 30 hairs with root attached (I opted to twirl a small amount around my finger against the base of the mane and sharply pull, got more than enough in one go and frankly they didn't even notice) and send it off with form attached. I noted on there I was paying over the phone and they rang me prior to testing the sample to make payment.
Took about 7 working days to get the result back, £30 a test.
They only test for PSSM1, PSSM2 is a lot more complicated from my reading, requires a muscle biopsy. I don't think PSSM2 is as much of a concern for draughts as PSSM1, but that's from my very limited reading on it. I could be hideously wrong however, and I'm sure someone will correct me in due course!

In theory, if you're vetting a potential purchase, you've got the time between viewing and the vetting to have taken hair at viewing and sent off for testing the same day, for results back by the time you get a vetting appointment.

Think that'd be a good idea to do it in-between the viewing and vetting. I don't know much about pssm at all and just it's one of those things that scared me alot. Like the time 7 year old me read about about colic was a long time ago, I think I'd panic each time I saw a horse roll then ??. I'm definitely gonna do more research into it, it seems like a very nasty disease. Thank you so much for your comment!

 

[SEL]

Very interesting, I've always been told to immediately drop when pssm was present. Which seems quite difficult especially how common it is with belgian drafts. May I ask who the dealer you're talking about is? You can always pm me them- I am planning on buying from a breeder in Essex since that's a bit more local to me

If you're buying from a breeder then they should test for PSSM (& not breed from positive parents hopefully!!)

The dealer importing is based in Essex too. Charlie Topcobs or something along those lines. No idea on whether they are a reliable dealer but they have imported a lot of Belgian youngsters and they won't be tested, will need their legs checking for CPL etc. If you wanted to import better to use someone based in Belgium who knows the studs.

 

[ycbm]

Is it possible the seller will refuse the test? If you have an asymptomatic horse, there's nothing to gain by having a positive test for PSSM recorded against it and some sellers might refuse.

I know of a dealer of high end horses who is reputed to refuse kissing spines x rays for the same reason.
.

 

[TheSubwayDino]

If you're buying from a breeder then they should test for PSSM (& not breed from positive parents hopefully!!)

The dealer importing is based in Essex too. Charlie Topcobs or something along those lines. No idea on whether they are a reliable dealer but they have imported a lot of Belgian youngsters and they won't be tested, will need their legs checking for CPL etc. If you wanted to import better to use someone based in Belgium who knows the studs.

Yep, we're on about same person! And OK thank you so much!

 

[TheSubwayDino]

Is it possible the seller will refuse the test? If you have an asymptomatic horse, there's nothing to gain by having a positive test for PSSM recorded against it and some sellers might refuse.

I know of a dealer of high end horses who is reputed to refuse kissing spines x rays for the same reason.
.

If they refuse, I think I'd just walk away. I do like to me quite "peace at mind" person and if you say no to a possible testing for a health probably I'd definitely be more paranoid or hesitant.

 

[TheSubwayDino]

Yep, we're on about same person! And OK thank you so much!

I was considering buying from them, well actually no, I was dead set on only buying from them because its local and easy to get to the viewing and vetting. I don't think I could import myself but I'll have a look around for other breeders too, thank you so much!

 

[Coblover63]

They can carry the gene, but won't necessarily develop it. It's a game of roulette.

 

[paddy555]

Is it possible the seller will refuse the test? If you have an asymptomatic horse, there's nothing to gain by having a positive test for PSSM recorded against it and some sellers might refuse.


.

and a lot to lose.

 

[Winger23man]

If you're buying from a breeder then they should test for PSSM (& not breed from positive parents hopefully!!)

The dealer importing is based in Essex too. Charlie Topcobs or something along those lines. No idea on whether they are a reliable dealer but they have imported a lot of Belgian youngsters and they won't be tested, will need their legs checking for CPL etc. If you wanted to import better to use someone based in Belgium who knows the studs.

It would be great if the breeder tested however until vets and breeders are on board this won’t happen. Pssm isn’t new it’s been around centuries Monday morning disease but trying up isn’t the only symptom. No breed is exempt. I have a Connie with pssm2 and a thoroughbred/warmblood who is Pxpx - not classed as pssm but tested in the same way
There are plenty of help groups on Facebook and people who can check bloodlines for suspects. That said by dutch warmblood has significant suspects throughout her bloodline but is negative to pssm1 and pssm2