That "decision"

[sam_m]

Over the last 5 weeks I have really noticed a decline in numerous ways in my beloved Boxer X Staffie Rox who is 14 and 1/2 and "that decision" is going to be needed to made most likely before Christmas.

I very much live by the motto better a day too soon.. But the decision is also compounded by the impact her final sleep will have on my son who is turning 14 at Christmas. Rox's quality of life is of uttermost importance to us, is there a way to make it easier for all? When I have had to make the call for horses it has been much easier as the decision has only affected me. Until the last 2 weeks my son hasn't been able to handle any sense of talk about it but he has slowly been saying he can see her decline and he thinks we might have to do it soon.

Any advice or guidance as how to make this as easy as possible is greatly received, she is our first dog, TIA.

 

[CorvusCorax]

The dog I grew up with was PTS when I was 16 and she was 14. I saw her out my bedroom window struggle to get up in the garden, I told my Mum and she called the vet and he was out within the hour (family friend).
She was a big dog, a great age for her breed and with CDRM behind and an historic broken/pinned front leg, her losing power behind just wasn't an option.

I had the benefit of having a quite blunt mother who always told me that this dog or that dog or my grandparents 'wouldn't be around forever'. The older dog we had died when I was about six and my Mum always said she kept her going too long, suffered huge guilt and would never put a dog through that again, which really shaped my view on the subject and still does.

To be quite frank, it's not really about your young lad's feelings, or yours, it's about the dog and it sounds like he is coming round to that fact.

I kept a lot of stuff including collars and whatnot, I'm in my 40s now and I still have a few bits of hers. Lots of pictures of her and of us together, some I still have framed. I got an oil painting of her done. A lovely letter that a school pal wrote me.

The Power of the Dog by Rudyard Kipling really helped me. Particularly the penultimate paragraph.

 

[Amymay Again]

It’s devastating for the whole family to loose a beloved pet. I remember as a young teenager going with my dad to have my cat pts. I was very aware she was failing and we made the decision as a family that it was time.

All I can say is include your son in the decision and let him make the choice on whether he’d like to accompany you.

My partner and I went through this two years ago with one of our dogs - and I had to manage his expectations of what I knew the result would be at the consult very carefully but also factually and truthfully.

 

[meleeka]

Keep him involved in the decision would be my advice. I've had to do it and it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. It really helped to take the dog to the vet beforehand, so we knew what to expect and what to look for, in advance of it happening. My son actually suggested first that it might be time. He came with me, said his goodbyes and went to the car before the deed was done, which was his choice.

It was really upsetting, but I think the fact that he knew why we were doing it and that was to prevent suffering, it wasn't as awful as it might have been.

 

[CorvusCorax]

Oh and just be aware if he wants to be there that the body will do things post mortem that can be considered quite upsetting. I didn't see my dog being PTS and I'm glad I didn't as she emptied her bladder. I could do it now but not at that age.

(I gave her a custard cream in the garden and gave her a hug and went back in the house). Also was lucky that the vet came to us and took remains away, I know that's highly unlikely these days.

 

[sam_m]

Thank you all, some very useful advise.

I most certainly will not be keeping Rox going longer than is fair. My heart and head tell me we need to make a decision in the next 6 weeks unless things change drastically. Her welfare is number one.

 

[Moobli]

Kids tend to be pretty resilient I’ve found, but I’d just be very honest with your son and let him decide how involved or not he wants to be.
I’m sorry you have this hardest of decisions looming over you, it’s never easy.

 

[meleeka]

Thank you all, some very useful advise.

I most certainly will not be keeping Rox going longer than is fair. My heart and head tell me we need to make a decision in the next 6 weeks unless things change drastically. Her welfare is number one.

It might be worth having a discussion about when you'll know it's time. For us it was when she wasn't as greedy anymore we'd know she wasn't happy. One say she didn't finish her dinner so that was that, no deliberation needed. Perhaps talk about how you'll know as a family when it's time, then your son will have it clear in his own mind.

 

[Clodagh]

I think if he is already mentioning that time is approaching then he is showing maturity and being sensible and preparing for it.
It’s a fact of life that animals die and as Moobli says children tend to cope with it pretty well on the whole.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Indeed! A very sensible young man. I would try to avoid letting it get too near to Christmas, unless you can be confident that you can safely get her into the NY. He is young enough that Christmas could be spoilt for him for many years.

 

[CorvusCorax]

Yep, my Mum hates Christmas as there are so many things that trigger memories of a trauma, the lights, the music, the smells etc. And she is in her 70s.

 

[splashgirl45]

Oh and just be aware if he wants to be there that the body will do things post mortem that can be considered quite upsetting. I didn't see my dog being PTS and I'm glad I didn't as she emptied her bladder. I could do it now but not at that age.

(I gave her a custard cream in the garden and gave her a hug and went back in the house). Also was lucky that the vet came to us and took remains away, I know that's highly unlikely these days.

My vet will come out but it’s quite expensive. I had him come home for my lurcher as she got in a real state at the vets and I wanted her last minutes to be stress free, which it was . That was in 2016 and it cost £250 so would be more now I assume

 

[paisley]

Over the last 5 weeks I have really noticed a decline in numerous ways in my beloved Boxer X Staffie Rox who is 14 and 1/2 and "that decision" is going to be needed to made most likely before Christmas.

I very much live by the motto better a day too soon.. But the decision is also compounded by the impact her final sleep will have on my son who is turning 14 at Christmas. Rox's quality of life is of uttermost importance to us, is there a way to make it easier for all? When I have had to make the call for horses it has been much easier as the decision has only affected me. Until the last 2 weeks my son hasn't been able to handle any sense of talk about it but he has slowly been saying he can see her decline and he thinks we might have to do it soon.

Any advice or guidance as how to make this as easy as possible is greatly received, she is our first dog, TIA.

Would a vet visit with your dog for a health check with your son help? I know its very likely a waste of money, but if you have a vet you trust to say the right things, it might put things into perspective. I had to take my 14 1/2 lurcher for an assesement of a long standing issue and one question was 'do you think he has good quality of life?' I don't know if thats my vets or if there is a move towards having this kind of conversation with owners. I think it also helps if the idea that this is part of being a responsible caring owner, as hard as it is.

 

[sam_m]

Indeed! A very sensible young man. I would try to avoid letting it get too near to Christmas, unless you can be confident that you can safely get her into the NY. He is young enough that Christmas could be spoilt for him for many years.

Yep, my Mum hates Christmas as there are so many things that trigger memories of a trauma, the lights, the music, the smells etc. And she is in her 70s.

That did form part of our conversation this weekend, his birthday is Dec 22nd, so wouldn't just taint Christmas for him and it is a time of year he already struggles immensely with. I hate the first 2 weeks of August as over the space of 7 years I lost 3 grandparents during that time period.

Would a vet visit with your dog for a health check with your son help? I know its very likely a waste of money, but if you have a vet you trust to say the right things, it might put things into perspective. I had to take my 14 1/2 lurcher for an assesement of a long standing issue and one question was 'do you think he has good quality of life?' I don't know if thats my vets or if there is a move towards having this kind of conversation with owners. I think it also helps if the idea that this is part of being a responsible caring owner, as hard as it is.

That is something to ask him, I think possibly he would struggle to hear it from the vet despite knowing the vet is the professional. We did discuss in the car on the way home from football training tonight what he saw as indicators of it being time. For him it is more weight loss, accidents more frequently, her going off her food and her slipping on the floor becomes daily but he also very maturely said "its her weight I dont want to see her get skinny, I took a photo of her side on earlier so I can compare but I think half term is it"

 

[splashgirl45]

It’s always a hard decision for us but must be worse for your son, he sounds like he is being very sensible about it so hopefully he will be ok, hope all goes well

 

[FinnishLapphund]

Oh and just be aware if he wants to be there that the body will do things post mortem that can be considered quite upsetting. I didn't see my dog being PTS and I'm glad I didn't as she emptied her bladder. I could do it now but not at that age.

(I gave her a custard cream in the garden and gave her a hug and went back in the house). Also was lucky that the vet came to us and took remains away, I know that's highly unlikely these days.

Everyone is different. When I was about 6 years old my mum let me choose if I wanted to be there when my first Guinea Pig died. As I remember it, she told me that after the soul leaves a body, the body might do things like twitch, fart, pee or poop, but that it's also possible that none of those things happen after that the soul is already gone. And regardless what happens it's perfectly normal, and the important thing is that they're at peace. She told me that both when she asked me if I wanted to be there when it happened, and reminded me about it again when it came closer to actually happening.
So with the exception of some aquarium fish who managed to get into the filter/pump, and die, and a few other unplanned pet deaths which took place when I wasn't present, I've been there when most of my pets have died since about the age of 6, and I'm happy about that. It hasn't damaged my memories of my pets that it not always, but sometimes, for short moments has happened some completely natural things with their bodies, which we've dealt with, so that their bodies looks nice, and serene, and as if they're simply asleep when it's time for us to bury them.

If your son @sam_m thinks that he might want to be there when she dies, regardless if you're doing it at the vets, or at home, remind him that he can always change his mind, and leave the room/area where it's going to happen, if he suddenly feels that he can't do it.

Sorry to be blunt, but do you, and he know what you plan to do with the body afterwards, bury her as she is, or send for cremation? If you're opting for cremation, is it possible that your son would want something like a bit of the ash turned into some type of memorabilia? Or is there some other thing/things he thinks he would like to keep, like her leash, a toy, a blanket, some pieces of fur from when you brush her etc. Does he have a favourite photo of her which you could frame, and put up?
If you're choosing cremation, but are not getting the ashes back at all due to the cost of separate cremation, would he like to do something like e.g. bury one of her toys somewhere in memory of her? If you're choosing to bury either the body, or an urn, would he like her to have a toy or gnaw bone with her? If you don't already have a spot in mind for where to either bury her, or spread her ashes, does your son have an opinion about where to do that? If you already have a spot in mind, could he perhaps choose something to plant there afterwards?

Have you/he any thoughts about maybe getting another dog at some point afterwards? Or maybe he wants another pet, but not a dog?
Have you talked to him about that at first grief might hurt, and/or feel overwhelming, but that it's okay to talk, and cry about that? Remind him that it's also okay to talk about all the happy memories, and feel happy when he thinks of her.

He might object about wanting to talk, or think about all these things, but to not only talk about her quality of life, having to make the tough decision, and if he wants to be there when she dies, without also about what will happen in your lives beyond that, with her body, and about potentially filling the emptiness she will leave behind in your lives etc, are for me all important pieces of the puzzle in learning to deal with the grief that comes when you're about to lose a pet.

{{{{{Hugs}}}}}

 

[CorvusCorax]

Well yeah, that's a point, I had hamsters, gerbils, fish and rabbits so was used to animals just keeling over and dying for no discernible reason as a kid, Nan's cats who 'went to live on a nice farm' (the one run by Jesus) and then there was the Watership Down Incident(s) (the same dog as mentioned in my first post, was responsible on both occasions, oops).
But the dog was a constant, had been there my entire life, was my pal, we went everywhere together. Everyone knew her.
The hamsters, not so much.

We didn't get another dog for about three or four years after she went. Also, a 14 year old will start to be interested in other things and could be off to college when the dog is in middle age so that's something the OP might have to think about.
To be honest as I was entering my mid to late teens, that probably wouldn't have been the best time to have a puppy running around while there were Boys and Music and Exams and things like that.

 

[Crazy_cat_lady]

I'm a cat person, but certainly agree with everyone saying to include him in the decision making, and give him the choice of going with you - can't remember how old i was when I started being given the option, I did always decline but at least I was given that opinion. I don't think OH was growing up, and while it was more his cat than mine, when we started living together and his cat got FIP and had to be pts, he really struggled with the build up, and making that decision, whereas perhaps because I was slightly more detached, and had been involved in knowing re family pets pts I could see what needed to be done, but as he was primarily OHs he had to be the one to make the decision. AC was booked for an ultrasound at the point he'd come to the decision if the scan came back with bad results, the decision would be made. Unfortunately AC had to go as an emergency the day before the scan, as he had accidents outside the tray, something he'd never done despite how poorly he was. For me that's a red line, as it means dignity has gone. I wonder if it made the whole thing more distressing for OH, waking up in tbe night to him doing that, as it showed how seriously it had suddenly struggled. I'd read up on the end stages of FIP and they're horrible, hence why I'd come to the decision if the scan showed as conclusively as possible that's what it was, the decision needed to be made to spare him of that

I'd certainly acknowledge your sons bravery what he said about thinking it's time. My mum always had a saying that has stuck with me even now "at least we can do that for animals humans you have to let suffer"

Can't write more as I'll start crying in the office!!

Let him decide how he wants to remember her, it will be personal to him (you can always do your own thing as well)

It's an awful decision

 

[sam_m]

If your son @sam_m thinks that he might want to be there when she dies, regardless if you're doing it at the vets, or at home, remind him that he can always change his mind, and leave the room/area where it's going to happen, if he suddenly feels that he can't do it.

Sorry to be blunt, but do you, and he know what you plan to do with the body afterwards, bury her as she is, or send for cremation? If you're opting for cremation, is it possible that your son would want something like a bit of the ash turned into some type of memorabilia? Or is there some other thing/things he thinks he would like to keep, like her leash, a toy, a blanket, some pieces of fur from when you brush her etc. Does he have a favourite photo of her which you could frame, and put up?
If you're choosing cremation, but are not getting the ashes back at all due to the cost of separate cremation, would he like to do something like e.g. bury one of her toys somewhere in memory of her? If you're choosing to bury either the body, or an urn, would he like her to have a toy or gnaw bone with her? If you don't already have a spot in mind for where to either bury her, or spread her ashes, does your son have an opinion about where to do that? If you already have a spot in mind, could he perhaps choose something to plant there afterwards?

Have you/he any thoughts about maybe getting another dog at some point afterwards? Or maybe he wants another pet, but not a dog?
Have you talked to him about that at first grief might hurt, and/or feel overwhelming, but that it's okay to talk, and cry about that? Remind him that it's also okay to talk about all the happy memories, and feel happy when he thinks of her.

He might object about wanting to talk, or think about all these things, but to not only talk about her quality of life, having to make the tough decision, and if he wants to be there when she dies, without also about what will happen in your lives beyond that, with her body, and about potentially filling the emptiness she will leave behind in your lives etc, are for me all important pieces of the puzzle in learning to deal with the grief that comes when you're about to lose a pet.

{{{{{Hugs}}}}}

Next time he brings up the conversation (becoming more common and whilst Rox is seemingly OK in herself I don't want to force things and have him taking steps backwards around this topic) I will remember to drop in that he can always change his mind about his presence up to the last minute.

The last time we discussed anything to do with her body he was adamant he wants to bury her, it was a sticking point for me as I have a thing about burying bodies (human or animal) and he got very distressed at the thought of her being cremated. He has already said he wants her collar and some of her blankett.

We will not be getting another dog, we live with my parents who have graciously allowed Rox to stay since I moved back home 13 years ago, but they do not want another dog in their house permanently. They have said we can dog sit for friends of his and mine when they go away.

Grief forms a lot of our conversations for the fact he has effectively disowned his dad and going/gone through a grief type cycle, but definitely worth reminding him it is ok to be happy with memories of her too.

Well yeah, that's a point, I had hamsters, gerbils, fish and rabbits so was used to animals just keeling over and dying for no discernible reason as a kid, Nan's cats who 'went to live on a nice farm' (the one run by Jesus) and then there was the Watership Down Incident(s) (the same dog as mentioned in my first post, was responsible on both occasions, oops).
But the dog was a constant, had been there my entire life, was my pal, we went everywhere together. Everyone knew her.
The hamsters, not so much.

We didn't get another dog for about three or four years after she went. Also, a 14 year old will start to be interested in other things and could be off to college when the dog is in middle age so that's something the OP might have to think about.
To be honest as I was entering my mid to late teens, that probably wouldn't have been the best time to have a puppy running around while there were Boys and Music and Exams and things like that.

One of my concerns is how lost he will be, she is currently laid next to him as he plays on his playstation. No doubt in the next hour I will get the exasperated complaints as she wants to head out to the garden 197 times just to take a look and we will have our daily chat about how she enjoys just going out and standing there. When he is going down with something he can usually be found on her bed with her curled up asleep.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Oof, that’s going to be extremely hard if getting another dog at some point isn’t an option.

Might you be able to persuade your parents to relent for their grandson’s sake?

 

[sam_m]

Oof, that’s going to be extremely hard if getting another dog at some point isn’t an option.

Might you be able to persuade your parents to relent for their grandson’s sake?

My hope is that they relent on it and in time we do get another dog. I'm trying hard to respect their decision but it is tough. But otherwise I will sign up for charities like Cinnamon Trust, it wont be the same but would help fill the hole.

 

[sam_m]

Thank you again for everyones comments and advice, we have had another "successful" discussion around this this weekend. Rox has unfortunately lost some more weight since I last updated, she and I have been to the vet. Both vet and I are as confident as we can be that she is not in pain but the weight loss is now beginning to be more of a concern. She is well in herself otherwise and we spent the day yesterday with my 19 month old niece and she was a saint letting her "walk" her by collar under very careful observation and enjoyed playing with their 3 year goldendoodle.

Son and I have agreed baring any significant changes, we are going to be saying goodbye and sleep well the weekend 22nd November.

 

[sam_m]

Thank you for everyones advice and support.

Rox drifted off for the final time earlier this evening, we had a lovely day in the sun with her looking well and playing like a pup, eating bacon/sausage rolls, chocolate chip cookies and pupaccinos.

 

[FinnishLapphund]

I'm so sorry for your, and your son's, loss.
I hope your son is/will be coping as well as possible with the grief, and the Rox shaped emptiness in his life. Take care of yourself.

{{{{{{Hugs}}}}}}}

 

[Jenko109]

Sorry for your loss, but well done for working so hard to make sure this was as positive an experience for your son as it could be.

All the best.

 

[Birker2020]

Over the last 5 weeks I have really noticed a decline in numerous ways in my beloved Boxer X Staffie Rox who is 14 and 1/2 and "that decision" is going to be needed to made most likely before Christmas.

I very much live by the motto better a day too soon.. But the decision is also compounded by the impact her final sleep will have on my son who is turning 14 at Christmas. Rox's quality of life is of uttermost importance to us, is there a way to make it easier for all? When I have had to make the call for horses it has been much easier as the decision has only affected me. Until the last 2 weeks my son hasn't been able to handle any sense of talk about it but he has slowly been saying he can see her decline and he thinks we might have to do it soon.

Any advice or guidance as how to make this as easy as possible is greatly received, she is our first dog, TIA.

I really don't want judgey comments on this. It was a grave error of judgement

My beautiful Jemma was around 12 years and she started feeling unwell. After numerous vets visits with a decline she collapsed Christmas Eve in the garden.

I picked her up and she was fine and pottered inside but she was very weak. She was on antibiotics from the vet for something tummy related so wanted to give them a chance to work. She was eating but very little, we were tempting her with sausages and chicken skin, you know how it is when they aren't eating much.

I guess we should have had her pts that night but I was desperate to have her for Christmas and minimalised it, none of us felt she was that bad as she was eating but lying in her basket a lot too and we thought we were looking at having her pts after boxing day.

Sadly I got a call on Boxing Day morning to say Mum had found her in her basket in the kitchen and she was bleeding profusely from her bottom, blood everywhere to the extent we had to have the flooring in the kitchen replaced. Something had ruptured. The vet came to the house within the hour to put her to sleep , she wasn't crying or whining and he took his time talking to Mum and Dad, before doing the deed, said he'd have been able to save her if we'd used him as a vet practice. Said our vet hadn't treated her correctly with the right drugs.

Mum told me to stay away and I'm glad I did. But I will never forget how selfish and misguided I was hoping to have her for Xmas.

Don't make my mistake x

 

[FinnishLapphund]

...

I'm sorry it ended the way it did for your Jemma, and it's kind of you @Birker2020 to try to save someone from experiencing similar to what you did, but you must've missed Sam_m's last reply, #23. Rox was euthanised yesterday, after a lovely sunny day, and lots of yummy treats.

 

[Birker2020]

I'm sorry it ended the way it did for your Jemma, and it's kind of you @Birker2020 to try to save someone from experiencing similar to what you did, but you must've missed Sam_m's last reply, #23. Rox was euthanised yesterday, after a lovely sunny day, and lots of yummy treats.

Oh I'm so sorry I have missed that. Apologies. RIP Rox

 

[sam_m]

Oh I'm so sorry I have missed that. Apologies. RIP Rox

I am so sorry to hear of your experience, the update was easy to miss, please dont be sorry. Your experience is one I wanted to avoid especially with what the vet and I strongly suspected was going on internally.

He came with us to vets, he had his cuddles and said his see you laters in the waiting room and then he went back to the car before I walked her into the consultation room. I'm proud of him, it has not been easy he is hurting but he has travelled up to Everton today with his football family so had lots to distract him.

 

[FinnishLapphund]

I am so sorry to hear of your experience, the update was easy to miss, please dont be sorry. Your experience is one I wanted to avoid especially with what the vet and I strongly suspected was going on internally.

He came with us to vets, he had his cuddles and said his see you laters in the waiting room and then he went back to the car before I walked her into the consultation room. I'm proud of him, it has not been easy he is hurting but he has travelled up to Everton today with his football family so had lots to distract him.

Your son sounds very mature, I understand why you're proud of him.