That's it, We're definitely the local laughing stock

touchstone said:
True, but when that perfect flight response kicks in then a bit probably won't be much help in stopping them either. Some horses including mine are very sensitive to nose pressure, and while I always ride mine bitted I'm not sure that the control afforded by a bit is any more or less effective than a correctly used halter, especially with a horse that resists bits.

I'm not an N/H person either, but my grandad who was tiny and stick thin always managed his young huge working cobs in just a halter on the roads when moving them to new fields or even walking them to sales. My other grandad managed to walk a huge horse through the local towns market place for a bet with no halter at all.
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Well having had a horse whom I could stop in a snaffle and no noseband tanking off with me in a crosspull bitless would I hell ride in a halter ;) :). This is a horse I stop with seat and voice aids with no bother in large groups of company but he still has his moments and id hate to see me left insuranceless with him causing havoc in a rope halter or even standard halter out on the roads.
 
Black Beastie said:
Well having had a horse whom I could stop in a snaffle and no noseband tanking off with me in a crosspull bitless would I hell ride in a halter ;) :). This is a horse I stop with seat and voice aids with no bother in large groups of company but he still has his moments and id hate to see me left insuranceless with him causing havoc in a rope halter or even standard halter out on the roads.
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Exactly - it depends on the individual horse. :)
 
I'm insured. I have it in writing.
Me and my horses are trained appropriately.
I wouldn't even say that we're always that chilled, it's just that I know how to stop them if things start to be a problem. As I ride bitted and bitless my personal experience would indicate that dealing with problems is no different in either option. To be honest, there are times when I almost need to look down at my horse's head to remind myself what he's wearing today. His schooling issues (and there are a few!) are the same in either option.
You do use a different technique when riding in a rope bridle/halter or a bosal I suppose, but in my case that's a stage in training and I use the same technique with a bit (more 1 rein, 2 reins mainly for backup or engagement). I think maybe what goes wrong when some people go bitless is that they leap straight into riding with a halter without having the training and understanding that they really need.
Riding horses is an imprecise adventure sometimes isn't it, whatever tack they wear.
 
OP - I'd think of it the other way round - the fact the things are noticed (and generally people are fairly unobservant), and the consequent mutterings are people actually thinking about alternatives to the way they do things. This can be pretty uncomfortable (as we all know!!), it's challenging people's long-held sincere beliefs, it may sound like criticism but more often than not it's tinged with admiration for you having the strength of character to try another way.

Sounds perfectly OK to me to have a reputation locally for being "fine with horses but a bit 'alternative'"!!
 
ImmyS said:
I live in an area where most 'horsey' people are very traditional, bhs, pony club style horse owners, which i have nothing against at all but I do find their reactions to the way I keep my horse very amusing.

As an example, i bumped into an older lady when out hacking, she was out on her schoolmaster hunter type, she's a pony club organiser and then there was me on my ex racer who i often ride out in her rope halter. The women stopped her horse and looking rather confused asked "what is that stringy thing on your horses head" I proceeded to tell her what it was and she replied "God knows how you have any control in that thing". Made me giggle a little.

I've also just started working at a livery yard as a groom, all lovely but again very traditional in their views, just me saying i had an ex racer was enough to send them off on a loony, crazy thoroughbred rant, when i went on to say how chilled out she was, that she lives out 24/7 all year, she is ridden bitless, isn't fed 20 tonnes of feed and is now barefoot their jaws practically hit the floor! :p:D




And now to add to it all even non horsey people in the area laugh at me for riding my horse out in 'trainers'... hoof boots to you and me!

Any other similar experience or am I the only one treated like i'm insane for doing things a little differently to perhaps the 'norm'?
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Oh dear, they would have multiple heartattacks if they came across the group of riders I sometimes see out my way. Hoofboots, often bareback or treeless saddles, bitless bridles (just a bosal type noseband). However I'm pleased to say they all do wear hats, fluorescents and decent footwear!
 
fatpiggy said:
Oh dear, they would have multiple heartattacks if they came across the group of riders I sometimes see out my way. Hoofboots, often bareback or treeless saddles, bitless bridles (just a bosal type noseband). However I'm pleased to say they all do wear hats, fluorescents and decent footwear!
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Well I do try to be as safe as possible, hat, as much hi vis as possible on poor weather days.., I'm not a total care free scruff bag when I ride out :p
 
catkin said:
OP - I'd think of it the other way round - the fact the things are noticed (and generally people are fairly unobservant), and the consequent mutterings are people actually thinking about alternatives to the way they do things. This can be pretty uncomfortable (as we all know!!), it's challenging people's long-held sincere beliefs, it may sound like criticism but more often than not it's tinged with admiration for you having the strength of character to try another way.

Sounds perfectly OK to me to have a reputation locally for being "fine with horses but a bit 'alternative'"!!
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Thank you catkin, I like that view on things!

I was the same, I was brought up in the horse world to do things traditionally its only in the last few years when I've met new people with new approaches that I've taken a different perspective on the care of my horse and the changes are working really well for both of us, obviously it can't be said for every horse and rider combination that such techniques would work. I just think its important to be open minded :)
 
I find it baffling that people think the law does (or ought to?) have a say in what is the correct tack to put a horse in. The highway code quoted earlier has it right by specifying 'in control' rather than detailing tack. I'm a traditionalist (shoes, bits!) but I would never, ever presume to think that my way is 'right', certainly not to the point where the law should enforce it. You couldn't make a rule for all horses anyway, as what's right for one would be totally wrong for another. Presuming it's illegal to ride bareback or in a halter is like presuming it's illegal to ride in a gag instead of a snaffle - they're just different approaches to the same thing. I don't know what the law actually IS but if isn't just 'in control' then it's pretty messed up.

Insurance companies, however, are a law unto themselves and I don't expect their rules to make any sense ;)
 
There isn't a law about what tack to use on the roads but the law cares about public safety.

The highway code offers guidelines about riding on the road. However, in the case of an accident, a court might make a decision as to whether the rider had taken care to be as safe as reasonably possible or whether they were reckless. Expert witnesses are part of the process.

So while, many things we do aren't illegal, if challenged in court, we'd have to ensure that our choices were sensible and wouldn't result in harm to anyone else.
That's not to say a court would rule in favour of horses being bitted because an expert might demonstrate successfully that a halter/bitless bridle gave equal control.

It depends whether, if challenged, you have the heart for proving your case in court.
 
I don't think anyone has ever had a horse actually bolt. Mine did. In a Pelham.

If its a true bolt, there is nothing you can do but either bail or try and stay on until the panic has subsided. He was a very well trained hunt horse.

One girl at my yard had to be airlifted. The Arab she was riding bolted and almost leaped onto a car. She bolted home and broke a fence to get into a field. She survived thankfully but was tied up.

So, I'm afraid, I don't believe that the best trained horses will not bolt. So, ride in what you like, nothing will save you from a bolt, halter, snaffle, gag, Pelham... A horse will not care.
 
I do get a bit of fun poked at me about Mollie and I get called a "worrier" because the fences aren't too great on our yard and I worry she'll get injured, or she's out with small ponies who duck under the fences leaving her and she might panic.

Also I get a bit mocked (gently) by one person for my belief that horses should have forage available (almost) all the time meaning if she's in I give Moll an enormous doubled-up haylage net. Also my belief that horses can choke on dry pony cubes. The same person asked her vet whether I was right about both counts and her vet said no.

It bothered me a bit at the time. Especially the checking with the vet and coming back to me with the response bit; I mean, why? As far as I'm concerned, I'll carry on feeding the way I do, and anyone else can feed their horses as they like.

I try not to get in conversations which lead to highlighting such differences of opinion now. :)
 
The fact is you're safer and have more control in a halter.

People can argue the toss and take a view, all they want. When a horse takes hold of the bit, you're fate is no longer in your own hands.

People put a lot of misguided faith in a bit, funny really.
 
Kat said:
Hear hear horserider!

I ride in hoof boots and recently went out with a new person, an hour in when she looked over her shoulder because she thought she'd got too far ahead she was surprised to see me trotting quietly behind her. It was only then that she realised my horse was bare and booted and she was interested not negative.

In fact the only negative comment I have had about my hoof boots was my totally non-horsey mum who laughed at the "orthopaedic shoes" and askdd if the other horses would make fun of my horse :rolleyes:

I have had a few comments about my westropp knee brushing boots, but not really negative just small children (and my mum) asking why the horse is wearing shin pads.

I do hate this inverted snobbery that goes with NH though. As though people who don't do it are something akin to creationists or believe the earth is flat. I don't have a long line or rope halter, I don't feel the need to spend £££ on extra gear when I can happily and safely do everything I want and need to with a snaffle bridle or a headcollar and lead rope. It doesn't make me a dinosaur.
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You mean to tell me you can use hoof boots without subscribing to everything else 'natural' and 'alternative'? Madness!

I have been thinking of getting some hoof boots for winter periods when I don't ride often so shoes aren't really justified, no plans to change anything else although I really don't mind what others do... If they have control and are happy, and their horse is happy then good for them :-)
 
Pale Rider said:
FionaM12, you're correct in my book.
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Thanks. :) The forage thing was drummed into me a long time ago and nothing I've ever heard since (except this lady's vet) has contradicted it. And having having had both my own horses suffer choke on pony cubes I will continue to avoid or soak them!
 
FionaM12 said:
Thanks. :) The forage thing was drummed into me a long time ago and nothing I've ever heard since (except this lady's vet) has contradicted it. And having having had both my own horses suffer choke on pony cubes I will continue to avoid or soak them!
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I'm also the same... Would never have a horse without access to ad lib forage.. Having an ex racer I'm paranoid about ulcers!
 
Mandwhy I love my hoof boots :)

I'm not really an alternative type and had kept my horse shod in front and bare behind the same as when I bought her until the vet pulled her shoes due to bruising. I bought the boots so I could start exercising her sooner and they are brilliant.

They protect the sole which shoes don't and give better grip (on roads and tracks) than shoes. My girl was so comfy in them straight away too.

I do most of my hacking with front boots on and bare behind and honestly can't see myself using shoes again unless I needed studs. Lots of my hacking buddies have expressed interest in boots since seeing how well mine perform. It amazes me that so many horses in much less work than mine are shod all round.

Mine are only cheapo ones, but they paid for themselves pretty quickly in savings on shoes and I have no complaints about them.

Give them a try but be warned, you may never want to go back ;)
 
Kat said:
Mandwhy I love my hoof boots :)

I'm not really an alternative type and had kept my horse shod in front and bare behind the same as when I bought her until the vet pulled her shoes due to bruising. I bought the boots so I could start exercising her sooner and they are brilliant.

They protect the sole which shoes don't and give better grip (on roads and tracks) than shoes. My girl was so comfy in them straight away too.

I do most of my hacking with front boots on and bare behind and honestly can't see myself using shoes again unless I needed studs. Lots of my hacking buddies have expressed interest in boots since seeing how well mine perform. It amazes me that so many horses in much less work than mine are shod all round.

Mine are only cheapo ones, but they paid for themselves pretty quickly in savings on shoes and I have no complaints about them.

Give them a try but be warned, you may never want to go back ;)
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Agree totally, just the difference in my girl from working in shoes to boots is incredible. Her movement has improved ten fold and as Kat said, I don't think I will ever be going back! :)
 
tallyho! said:
I don't think anyone has ever had a horse actually bolt. Mine did. In a Pelham.

If its a true bolt, there is nothing you can do but either bail or try and stay on until the panic has subsided. He was a very well trained hunt horse.

One girl at my yard had to be airlifted. The Arab she was riding bolted and almost leaped onto a car. She bolted home and broke a fence to get into a field. She survived thankfully but was tied up.

So, I'm afraid, I don't believe that the best trained horses will not bolt. So, ride in what you like, nothing will save you from a bolt, halter, snaffle, gag, Pelham... A horse will not care.
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Exactly. I've had a big strong cob who would have a very good attempt at running away, but I can't say he bolted because it was possible to stop him. In a rope halter... using a 1 rein stop... with a much more strong hold on his reins than I'd have ever wanted to take on his mouth.

And surely anyone who doesn't understand how riding in a rope halter or similar works can easily see how accepted it is in other parts of the world by just reading a bit about cowboy traditions and vaquero horsemanship? I mean, if they are really interested that is. Condemning it out of hand and suggesting that it makes a horse and rider is unsafe to the public is just a bit... ignorant really. I don't mean ignorant as an insult, just in the true meaning of the word, ie to be lacking in knowledge or awareness of something. I mean for goodness sake, horse trainers the world over start horses in various shapes of halter, and ride them safely, and in control (as much as we ever can be over half a ton of living beast) and it really is no big deal. The friend I showed riding earlier with Jeff Sanders lives in the middle of 300+acres of Australian scrubland. The greatest peril is wombat holes, which can appear overnight. If a horse is galloping along and you spot a wombat hole, you need to be in control. And yet all his first rides on young horses are out on that terrain, and in a rope halter. And oh yes, he's in control.

:-)
 
Tinypony said:
Exactly. I've had a big strong cob who would have a very good attempt at running away, but I can't say he bolted because it was possible to stop him. In a rope halter... using a 1 rein stop... with a much more strong hold on his reins than I'd have ever wanted to take on his mouth.

And surely anyone who doesn't understand how riding in a rope halter or similar works can easily see how accepted it is in other parts of the world by just reading a bit about cowboy traditions and vaquero horsemanship? I mean, if they are really interested that is. Condemning it out of hand and suggesting that it makes a horse and rider is unsafe to the public is just a bit... ignorant really. I don't mean ignorant as an insult, just in the true meaning of the word, ie to be lacking in knowledge or awareness of something. I mean for goodness sake, horse trainers the world over start horses in various shapes of halter, and ride them safely, and in control (as much as we ever can be over half a ton of living beast) and it really is no big deal. The friend I showed riding earlier with Jeff Sanders lives in the middle of 300+acres of Australian scrubland. The greatest peril is wombat holes, which can appear overnight. If a horse is galloping along and you spot a wombat hole, you need to be in control. And yet all his first rides on young horses are out on that terrain, and in a rope halter. And oh yes, he's in control.

:-)
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Totally agree
 
horserider said:
There isn't a law about what tack to use on the roads but the law cares about public safety.

The highway code offers guidelines about riding on the road. However, in the case of an accident, a court might make a decision as to whether the rider had taken care to be as safe as reasonably possible or whether they were reckless. Expert witnesses are part of the process.

So while, many things we do aren't illegal, if challenged in court, we'd have to ensure that our choices were sensible and wouldn't result in harm to anyone else.
That's not to say a court would rule in favour of horses being bitted because an expert might demonstrate successfully that a halter/bitless bridle gave equal control.

It depends whether, if challenged, you have the heart for proving your case in court.
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Just as an aside, sorry OP.

I wonder how that affects rulings in somewhere like the NF or Dartmoor?

What would be the ruling if there was an accident with a horse being ridden because an accident with one of the "wild" ponies comes down to it being the drivers fault as animals on the road have right of way.
Does that cover ridden horses as well?
 
Oberon said:
Agree 100%. The idea of a 90kg human eliciting 'control' over a 700kg animal is laughable...yet we delude ourselves that our leather straps and metal hardware are all we need :rolleyes:.

If anyone has seen a 700kg horse throwing a proper tantrum - you quickly get a sense of how very little and fragile we are in comparison :o.

In actuality it's the horse's amazing trait of co-operation and preference for the path of least resistance that keeps us safe. Yet rather than appreciating this gift - we tend to abuse it :(
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So true..................
 
Tinypony said:
Exactly. I've had a big strong cob who would have a very good attempt at running away, but I can't say he bolted because it was possible to stop him. In a rope halter... using a 1 rein stop... with a much more strong hold on his reins than I'd have ever wanted to take on his mouth.

And surely anyone who doesn't understand how riding in a rope halter or similar works can easily see how accepted it is in other parts of the world by just reading a bit about cowboy traditions and vaquero horsemanship? I mean, if they are really interested that is. Condemning it out of hand and suggesting that it makes a horse and rider is unsafe to the public is just a bit... ignorant really. I don't mean ignorant as an insult, just in the true meaning of the word, ie to be lacking in knowledge or awareness of something. I mean for goodness sake, horse trainers the world over start horses in various shapes of halter, and ride them safely, and in control (as much as we ever can be over half a ton of living beast) and it really is no big deal. The friend I showed riding earlier with Jeff Sanders lives in the middle of 300+acres of Australian scrubland. The greatest peril is wombat holes, which can appear overnight. If a horse is galloping along and you spot a wombat hole, you need to be in control. And yet all his first rides on young horses are out on that terrain, and in a rope halter. And oh yes, he's in control.

:-)
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Very true and can I just add that too many people rely on the bit and the rein these days, much forgetting that the majority of our control is in neither of those, but in the weight/position of our bodies and legs.

Way before metal bits, people used rope and as an example the Bedouins used the hakimah (Hackamore) which is nothing like the hackamores of today... they were made of rope.

Much like this... and had to control horses in wars, finding food, falconry etc...

handmade_arabian_hackamore_2_by_carlylyn-d3kd04k.jpg
 
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