The 1st project horse which might beat me. : (

Monsters said:
If it was brain tumour related, wouldn't I have problems other than ridden work??


Its not a given, the first one i came across was no problem to handle and a really sweet mare, but get on her back and she was a different story. And it was not all the time, but you could see when she was about to go, her whole demeaner changed. It would be better if they showed signs of it all the time i think, make it easier to spot.

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If its nice on the ground, but bad to be ridden I would say its in pain.
Does it do the following-
-Kick out randomly at stable walls etc
-Be compleatly fine when ridden then explode
-cold backed
-doesn't like to tacked up/ but rugs on etc

If so I would think kissing spine. My horse had a kissing spine and he was fine to hack but was explosive to school. The vet said the pain is like an electric shock in the back when dorsal processes rub together causing explosive behaviour. Also a horse can be constant pain.
A horse on the point yard was very nappy out hacking and it had a kissing spine also. That horse and mine where both very nice on the ground to handle.

Get its back x-rayed. If the horse is a nice person, and is often well behaved, he will be trying to please. I feel guilty to think how much my horse had done in so much pain, just to please.
 
Mine went through an overly mental stage too. Not to the same extent, but really was becoming dangerous even to handle. We tried changing food as we thought maize might trigger it and it did help but he got super skinny..

I then moved him to a new yard. It's a dealer's place but he does livery too. He's a typical older generation horseman, takes problem horses and is amazing with TB's especially ex-racers (which mine is). He calmed down near instantly. He arrived and went ballistic but the next few days there was a huge improvement and now he's like a different horse. He's on maize and food that supposedly isn't suitable for TB's and in a little individual paddock - all the things that should make him crazy are having no effect.

I can't say exactly what it is that's done it...the yard itself is quite quiet and calm and spacious, so I think that helps. But I suspect the real change comes from a) a very solid routine. He is fed three times a day at exactly the same time, brought in and let out exactly the same time every day and nobody works the horses at all between 12 and 2. And
b) A double ring. Sounds silly perhaps but truly. Every 2 weeks (sometimes every week, depending on the horse) I let him out into the double ring. He knows he can gallop around bucking and kicking and going mental, so he does. He races around like a crazy animal at a flat gallop and he bucks, kicks, fly leaps, squeals..everything. He needs to do that or he turns into a nutjob...it's energy, but not productive energy. Just stupid energy, and it's the only way he can happily expend it.
I also use it for free jumping which helps him too..he gets all his silly energy out.

Well, oh and also..keeping him entertained. He lunges, free jumps, jumps under saddle, gets ridden in the school and in the field and sometimes goes out around the canter track. If I just do one thing for a while he gets bored and starts behaving like a complete idiot again.
Basically what I'm saying is in my case the change of environment helped immeasurably..if I hadn't moved him I actually think I would've got seriously hurt at some point. He nearly kicked my head out numerous times and was doing his utmost to actually hurt me, rather than just being high spirited..I felt he was becoming nasty. As it is now..since I've moved him I've been entirely comfortable with him and don't think he's the nasty type at all. I'm happy to try anything with him and he really is a kind, willing horse.

So, that may not be any help at all :) But you know...it seems like you're at the stage where somebody might say something and it could just kinda spark an idea..so I thought I'd offer my experience :)
 
As a general rule, a horse's personality is the same on the ground and ridden, esp if you watch it in the herd with other horses. So if this horse is a jeckyll and hyde, then something must hurt, somewhere.

I knew one like this a few years ago, who turned out to have kissing spines. She was the sweetest thing ever on the ground, but would get you off in no uncertain terms if something set her off. Broncing, and bolting were her specialities.

If not KS, then could be arthritis somewhere else, even at a young age this is possible, or an old injury (maybe break that didn't heal right, that kind of thing).

Good luck :)
 
He's good to tack up, rug, groom no signs off discomfort at all and wouldn't even think off kicking the stable Walls. He really has become a sweetheart.
He's in the same routine every day, bring in, feed, turn out.
The only thing that was different when he went stupid was the fact I normally work him early in the morning but worked him in the evening when there was stuff going on in the yard.
I do agree it has to be pain related in some way but just a case off finding it.
 
What else was different from the rountine when you rode him in the evening? had he been feed during the day or before being ridden? Had he had turn out? Had he been in the stable? Was there lights in the school? The fact the place was more busy might have nothing to do with it.

P.s - there's cereals in top spec balancers (there's cereal in anything in a pellet form)
 
If you can honestly say you have had opinions regarding the following:

Saddle – fit inc. Weight/type/numnah & saddle cloth fitting – saddle may fit but be too forward cut for example
Girth – fit inc need for padding/stretch (is it pinching? Do you need a cover)
Bridle – so many people underestimate the fit of a bridle, inc noseband type/padding (sheepskin cheekpieces work for my boy, for example)
Bit – what bit are you using? Could a similar bit be more effective
Teeth – have you had the dentist out in the past month?
Back – not just vet buy physio/cairo
Lameness – has the vet eliminated any signs of lameness (I always ask my farrier but it depends on your relationship with him)
Workload – are you doing enough?

Then I am afraid you may have to reconsider your options. You say he is a project? I assume that means he will be sold on – and if not, do you really want to be stuck with a horse that might not ever come right, could hurt you, make you lose your confidence etc.

We are all this for the enjoyment – even those people who do it for a full time job. There is simply no point in riding something you are not happy with...even the mad people amongst us who ride the horses others wont touch do it for the sense of satisfaction and achievement, and in cases like yours if all other causes have been discounted, perhaps a change of rider/approach would be the best thing for him.
 
SI, KS and PSD/hind suspensory injuries all cause similar behaviour (plus I am sure many other things!) He really needs to be scanned. There could be more than one thing going on.


One thing you could look for is bunnyhopping in canter, just as a clue. Even just in the field running free.

Does he track up well? Have you tried flexion tests? All could give clues.They wont necessarily give you an answer but might suggest where to go next.
 
Monsters said:
He's in the same routine every day, bring in, feed, turn out.
The only thing that was different when he went stupid was the fact I normally work him early in the morning but worked him in the evening when there was stuff going on in the yard.
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My 'crazy' mare was always worse the nearer it was to feeding time and especially if feeding time was delayed. Of course we thought that this was behavioural.
I have never fed TopSpec. What are its ingredients? I would feed nothing but soaked hay for a few days - we saw an amazing difference within 3 days. Ours was like the one Kallibear described, she could not concentrate and her skin was very sensitive. She eventually became a nightmare to bring in for her evening feed but was always fine to put out in the morning. If we hadn't happened to find out what was wrong she would have been pts as she was dangerous to do anything with - we had stopped riding her years before this. She was truly like a different animal within a week. IMHO this is the easiest and cheapest option to try first and it is quite possible that the horse won't lose weight, one of the possible reactions to 'wrong' feedstuffs is weight loss.
 
I have to say it doesn't sound like a brain tumour to me. Had a pony with a brain tumour which only flipped when ridden, sweetest thing ever on the ground and most of the time under saddle. When she flipped there was virtually no warning, you say that his back goes up and it happens when he's put in a situation he's not keen on so I can't see how that would trigger an episode if it were a real brain tumour. Also if it's happening when hacking when you're just asking him to wait it doesn't sound like an entirely pain related issue (although I would definitely want him checking for kissing spine). Is it when you ask him to move again when he starts to create or when asking him to stand? Ask this as I had another mare who started freaking out firstly with transitions and then asking to move at all, turns out her tendons in her back legs had thickened and were pressing on her nerves causing serious pain, especially when making a transition.
 
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