Clava
Well-Known Member
Quite agree.
The 2012 racing season has now killed 50 horses!!
- Thread starter Over2You
- Start date
Quite agree.
Caledonia
Well-Known Member
Are these freely available on the internet for everyone to view? In racing, the results are usually up within a couple of hours of the race, so if a horse is injured put down on the course anyone can see immediately.
I know the Eventing body records everything at an event, but there is no public access to it.
You are not the only sport to fail if your horse isn't fit to continue, btw, there is a trot up at the start of a 2/3 day, and a trot up before the SJ phase on the third day. There is also regular testing for horses and riders at the top level.
However it is great to know that endurance is on the ball with their records. Can you direct me to where they can be seen? Thanks.
EstherYoung
Well-Known Member
Caledonia - I wasn't trying to say one discipline was better than another. The statement was made that these figures aren't recorded by other disciplines, but in fact they are. Maybe not publicly, but they are recorded and monitored. The insurance crawl all over them for one thing... I am sure that EGB or SERC would provide the (thankfully very very small and normally non-ride-related) numbers if anyone asked them.
Nb The difference with our final vettings is that they are at the end of the competition. Whatever placing someone has, that doesn't hold till they've passed the final vetting.
Nb The difference with our final vettings is that they are at the end of the competition. Whatever placing someone has, that doesn't hold till they've passed the final vetting.
Caledonia
Well-Known Member
Thanks Esther - that's my point really - the information is freely available in racing, but not in any other sport. So anyone can use any figures from racing and manipulate them, but other sports restrict that information.
Thanks for the info about the vetting in Endurance. I suppose due to the nature of the sport it's necessary, as it's endurance - literally! - right to the end, whereas in eventing the endurance phase is the second last.
Racergirl
Well-Known Member
I do agree with you Alec.
but it is keeping me entertained, all of this...badminton cancelled so i had no plans and so i wanted to feed some trolls
that was my situation too - and I was more interested in putting things right about the ownership thing than the rest 
ClassicG&T
Well-Known Member
By posting this thread you are asking for an arguement.
yes, 50 horses died. But how many have raced, then work out the percentage.
How many horses are there in the UK, then work out the percentage that have died.
I would turn your attention to the neglect of the horses in the Middle East or something.
yes, 50 horses died. But how many have raced, then work out the percentage.
How many horses are there in the UK, then work out the percentage that have died.
I would turn your attention to the neglect of the horses in the Middle East or something.
Ibblebibble
Well-Known Member
ahh but then that would spoil the argument as it would prove that as humans we use horse for our 'entertainment' on a daily basis and manage to kill them quite frequently!!
Racing is an easy target as the figures are all there to be seen and be shocked at. If the figures were available of horses that are injured or pts as a result of other sports were available too i think the race haters would be quite shocked!!
catwithclaws
Well-Known Member
jesus...get a life, you are just correcting others spelling and punctuation because you are clearly running out of reasoning for your own argument. if you want to continue arguing your point, then argue it - but for heavens sake stop correcting others spelling and get on with it!
catwithclaws
Well-Known Member
ester
Not slacking multitasking
surely that makes the stats worse, given that there are multiple runners in a race.. ie the stats per race would therefore be say, if 10 per race one death per 25 races
Little Squirrel
Well-Known Member
What bullshit! I'm sorry but I can't abide liars. I have never known a racehorse to be afraid of the whip and I must have ridden well over 500 different one's. I have sat on plenty of showjumpers who are afraid of the stick because it has been used in a diferent context.
Racehorses DO NOT get hit over the head. Ever.
OP you are a completley irritable person who is just looking for an argument. I suggest you'd be better off going spending some time with your poor abused ex racehorse and sorting out all the problems that the racing world gave him. *rolls eyes*
Saucisson
Well-Known Member
I know very little about racing and normally steer clear of any threads like these but I do worry that anti-racing groups will threaten racing in the UK.
I am sure that if the UK was no longer an attractive proposition for some of the (hugely wealthy) owners they would just go elsewhere to race their horses. Other countries with far fewer welfare and safety laws (for horses and jockeys).
I may be wrong in presuming but if I were a racehorse, I'd much prefer to be in living and racing in the UK than somewhere like Saudi Arabia or Mexico.
Racing thoroughbreds won't stop if the UK stops, it would just get pushed out to places where horses are REALLY treated as commodities. Where if they fall ill or fall short they don't get shot, they get sold to some horse-drawn cab driver and spend 10 miserable years hobbling round some sandy *****hole.
Sure, the pictures always look terrible when the horses fall and it's sad when they die but it's a lot sadder for those who know and work with the horse than those who've just seen the pictures.
(Plus we need the tax money the industry generates )
I am sure that if the UK was no longer an attractive proposition for some of the (hugely wealthy) owners they would just go elsewhere to race their horses. Other countries with far fewer welfare and safety laws (for horses and jockeys).
I may be wrong in presuming but if I were a racehorse, I'd much prefer to be in living and racing in the UK than somewhere like Saudi Arabia or Mexico.
Racing thoroughbreds won't stop if the UK stops, it would just get pushed out to places where horses are REALLY treated as commodities. Where if they fall ill or fall short they don't get shot, they get sold to some horse-drawn cab driver and spend 10 miserable years hobbling round some sandy *****hole.
Sure, the pictures always look terrible when the horses fall and it's sad when they die but it's a lot sadder for those who know and work with the horse than those who've just seen the pictures.
(Plus we need the tax money the industry generates
)
Caledonia
Well-Known Member
surely that makes the stats worse, given that there are multiple runners in a race.. ie the stats per race would therefore be say, if 10 per race one death per 25 races
It's the same ratio, just a different way of putting it. Exactly proving how stats can be manipulated. For you, one death every 25 races sounds worse than one death in 250 runners, but it's exactly the same statistic.
Although that approximation came from the BHA website, I did the figures one year for the first three months of the year, counting every fatality, and every runner, and had that work out at 1 death per 682 runners, or some such. Although that included some flat races. I haven't kept it, I did it for a forum somewhere.
Cuffey
Well-Known Member
I have always believed and continue to believe that ''in the field'' is the most dangerous place for horses without even counting grass sickness, laminitis etc
Sure every single one of us know of a horse or horses which:
1 Broke a leg in the field
2 Broke leg/neck jumping out of a field
3. Kicked through a metal gate, resulting damage either finished competition career or led to horse being put down
etc etc
The latest casualty to end its competitive career but not its life!
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/competitionnews/387/312227.html
Sure every single one of us know of a horse or horses which:
1 Broke a leg in the field
2 Broke leg/neck jumping out of a field
3. Kicked through a metal gate, resulting damage either finished competition career or led to horse being put down
etc etc
The latest casualty to end its competitive career but not its life!
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/competitionnews/387/312227.html
Mitchyden
Well-Known Member
I'm sure that far more horses have died within the last year of laminits through neglect of the owner. Don't take this the wrong way though as I know for a fact that not all laminitis is the owner's fault but many cases are. I've known three horses pts due to being turned out on knee high grass and forgotten about for the summer!!
Allover
Well-Known Member
FWIW i think that people like over2you are needed in this world to make sure that animal welfare is kept at the forefront of peoples minds.
A lot of posters seem to be missing the point that the OP is only talking about deaths to horses whilst racing, not what happens when they are riding out, in the field, etc etc. These are deaths ON THE RACETRACK, and if people like the OP keep on and on hopefully there will come a time when racing does not leave a sour taste in the mouth from watching horses breaking down with such regularity. That there will come a time when such a high percentage will not be destroyed because of breaking a leg/doing a tendon whilst running.
And to all of those who say that racehorses are kept like kings and never abused in anyway......you are wrong. Seen it with my own eyes (as i have in all the "major" disciplines) some people are greedy, other not nice and others have fallen on challenging times but sure as eggs is eggs its the animals that suffer the fall out.
I would like to make it perfectly clear that i in no way want to see an end to racing.
p.s. I dont give a monkeys bum if my spelling is out or my grammer and puntuation are off
A lot of posters seem to be missing the point that the OP is only talking about deaths to horses whilst racing, not what happens when they are riding out, in the field, etc etc. These are deaths ON THE RACETRACK, and if people like the OP keep on and on hopefully there will come a time when racing does not leave a sour taste in the mouth from watching horses breaking down with such regularity. That there will come a time when such a high percentage will not be destroyed because of breaking a leg/doing a tendon whilst running.
And to all of those who say that racehorses are kept like kings and never abused in anyway......you are wrong. Seen it with my own eyes (as i have in all the "major" disciplines) some people are greedy, other not nice and others have fallen on challenging times but sure as eggs is eggs its the animals that suffer the fall out.
I would like to make it perfectly clear that i in no way want to see an end to racing.
p.s. I dont give a monkeys bum if my spelling is out or my grammer and puntuation are off
Alec Swan
Well-Known Member
All those who get on the back of a horse are putting themselves, and the horse at risk. To claim that the risk of accident for a competing horse, is unacceptable, would mean I suppose that we don't compete in partnership with a horse.
The combination of horse and human has always had a high degree of risk attached to it. It always has, and it always will. Both horses and humans die, on occasions. That's the way it is, I'm sorry to tell you.
Alec.
Elf On A Shelf
...
Just a thought - how many riders have been killed eventing in the last decade? I can only think of 2 jockeys that have lost their life in recent times. So if horse deaths in racing is unacceptable then why are human deaths in eventing accepted? Humans are just animals too afterall.
Over2You
Well-Known Member
I have seven friends who are also horse owners. Between us, we own twenty horses. Just one of those friends had a horse who slipped in his field - resulting in a broken leg. I have never had a horse badly injured in a field. When I was a child, I worked at a riding school/livery. Out of the five years I was there, and out of the forty plus horses that were stabled there, NONE suffered a fatal field accident.
Over2You
Well-Known Member
Except in racing, the risks are a damned site higher than in ANY other discipline!!
I don't know the exact number of deaths in the likes of show jumping or eventing, but what I do know is the risk has been significantly lowered in those sports. As I said before, I can count on one hand, the number of fatalities I have witnessed in the 20+ years of watching show jumping. I would say that reflects how low the death rate is across the whole of the discipline. If eventing or show jumping killed anywhere near as many horses as racing does, then you can bet your bottom dollar that the likes of Animal Aid would be all over them.
It also revolts me that I have been labeled a "troll" for expressing my disgust of a sport that has killed more than fifty horses in a little over four months. Don't get back to me saying that just ??% of x-number of horses have died. All you would saying then is that if it is a small percentage, then it is perfectly justifiable.
Racing WILL continue to kill an alarmingly high number of horses until drastic measures are taken to prevent such deaths.
olop
Well-Known Member
Oter users are calling you a troll because all you seem to do on the forum is spread your c**p about racing & point us in the direction of an "organisation" that is also full of c**p.
If you feel so strongly about it all go set your own forum up where you can get people involved that hate racing as much as you do. You can rant until your heart's content then
Over2You
Well-Known Member
How dare you call me a liar!! Can you personally vouch for every single trainer, lad, lassie, and jockey in the country?? If not, then shut up!! What about the infamous video of a jockey head-butting his horse?? Surely to goodness that is proof that racehorses have deliberately been hit on the head!! It should also be noted that the jockey responsible for the former only received a one-day ban. A week or two prior to that, a jockey got a ten-day ban for being rude to stewards. Good to know the BHA had their priorities in check on those occasions.
tristar
Well-Known Member
overtoyou, i don't think you're a troll, one thing you said struck a cord with me, that was how can someone send a horse to the grand national then be devastated when it gets unavoidably fatally injured, through no fault of its own incompetence, due to other fallers etc, if the horse means that much to you, you put the horse's welfare before monetry gain and the prestige and fame.
it called being unselfish.
it called being unselfish.
Caledonia
Well-Known Member
How dare you call me a liar!! Can you personally vouch for every single trainer, lad, lassie, and jockey in the country?? If not, then shut up!! What about the infamous video of a jockey head-butting his horse?? Surely to goodness that is proof that racehorses have deliberately been hit on the head!! It should also be noted that the jockey responsible for the former only received a one-day ban. A week or two prior to that, a jockey got a ten-day ban for being rude to stewards. Good to know the BHA had their priorities in check on those occasions.
LOL - Nutter alert!
Out of all that film evidence of every race in the whole of Ireland and the UK, and reporting that is the best case of abuse you can come up with? Racing should be quaking in it's boots then!
How about Laura Renwick hammering her horse live on TV? Or is that allowed cos its SJ?
Leaf
Well-Known Member
I have witnessed in the 20+ years of watching show jumping.
so you haven't worked in showjumping? I have and you may not have witnessed a fatality, but i have many behind the scenes and other atrocities, you just don't get to see it.
again I ask you O2Y what would be your ideal solution?
so you haven't worked in showjumping? I have and you may not have witnessed a fatality, but i have many behind the scenes and other atrocities, you just don't get to see it.
again I ask you O2Y what would be your ideal solution?
dominobrown
Well-Known Member
Some interesting point made here, but as jockmaster says, what is the soloution?
Ban racing?
Ok I get the point this thread is about racing, but every time you ride a horse, take a horse and the roads, but it in a trailer etc you are putting the horse at risk.
The BHA work very hard to improve racing, and if you have senisble solutions ring them up and they would welocme your suggestions.
To me, its obvious from some of the comments and suggestions on this thread is to kill all horses so no suffering can continue. I know some horses enjoy racing as much as some horses enjoy hacking etc, but they are at risk doing these activities. Lets remove the risk and just kill every horse so no horse can ever die again. O2Y- I will give you the gun... off you go... put them out of their 'misery'.
Got a better idea?
Ban racing?
Ok I get the point this thread is about racing, but every time you ride a horse, take a horse and the roads, but it in a trailer etc you are putting the horse at risk.
The BHA work very hard to improve racing, and if you have senisble solutions ring them up and they would welocme your suggestions.
To me, its obvious from some of the comments and suggestions on this thread is to kill all horses so no suffering can continue. I know some horses enjoy racing as much as some horses enjoy hacking etc, but they are at risk doing these activities. Lets remove the risk and just kill every horse so no horse can ever die again. O2Y- I will give you the gun... off you go... put them out of their 'misery'.
Got a better idea?
Echo Bravo
Well-Known Member
Did wonder how long O2Y could hold her breathe,before spouting again. Why has she/he becomed glued on Horseracing whether jump or flat, as many of us have said horses going long trips for slaughter/donkeys/camels badly treated in the East. I support WHW and Spana with money, when I can afford it. I don't support PETA and the others as they cause more pain and suffering than needs be.Many people who own/have owned/bred Racehorses support the Charities that help them and the jockeies that get injured.
luckyoldme
Well-Known Member
Im not fond of racing myself but this is the horse and hound forum so would nt expect much sympaythy for my views..
This forum though sometimes resembles a pack of wolves. Some of the arguments are pretty daft too... including the one about horses prefferring to race then to not be born.?
I also found the link to the article about broken legs written by two vets fascinating.
Overall i think over2you is entitled to her opinion and a lot of those spouting off on here would nt have the guts to stand up for their own beliefs with so many people against them.
This forum though sometimes resembles a pack of wolves. Some of the arguments are pretty daft too... including the one about horses prefferring to race then to not be born.?
I also found the link to the article about broken legs written by two vets fascinating.
Overall i think over2you is entitled to her opinion and a lot of those spouting off on here would nt have the guts to stand up for their own beliefs with so many people against them.
Echo Bravo
Well-Known Member
And Luckyoldyou as you can say what you want,just like O2Y and yes I would stand up for what I believe in as many posters on here would do as well, so stick that in your pipe and spit it out, why don't you.
Over2You
Well-Known Member
Oter users are calling you a troll because all you seem to do on the forum is spread your c**p about racing & point us in the direction of an "organisation" that is also full of c**p.
If you feel so strongly about it all go set your own forum up where you can get people involved that hate racing as much as you do. You can rant until your heart's content then
More than fifty horses dying on the track is a load of crap, is it?? Animal Aid (which has helped to prosecute countless individuals and companies for animal abuse) is full of crap, is it??
You must be seriously deluded if you think racing is squeaky clean. That it strives to make things safer for horses (when it clearly is not)!!