The 2012 racing season has now killed 50 horses!!

Elbie said:
My dad has a share in a racehorse. He has given a lot of money for a 2 year old that will hardly race much this year (maiden race coming up) and knows he is not likely to see much, if any financial gain but he enjoys the sport and loves his little baby horse!
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Can I ask you if your Dad knows the rules which have been written somewhere in his contract for what is to happen to the horse if it fails to race fast enough to warrant keeping it, or if it becomes injured? I would be very interested to know whether the welfare of the horse at the end of its racing life is something that his partnership or syndicate have paid any attention to.
 
As someone said much earlier on, there are good and bad people in every aspect of life, including every aspect of equestrian life. I've been to a number of trainer's yards (as part of a very large racing club) and they all emphasise the efforts they go to to find good homes for horses after racing. One said that although Heroes and similar organisations do a lot of good work in re-training and re-homing ex-race horses, he feels people don't know about the individual trainers - himself included - who have their own re-training and re-homing programmes. And I also know that horses who don't seem to be enjoying their racing (which isn't necessarily a case of not winning/placing) are retired from the track and found something else to do.

Do you think every horse has a good owner? Every horse, when its owner can no longer keep it or doesn't want to keep it, for whatever reason, is passed to a good home rather than just sold to the highest bidder or the first person who offers the asking price?
 
Marciamac said:
Do you think every horse has a good owner? Every horse, when its owner can no longer keep it or doesn't want to keep it, for whatever reason, is passed to a good home rather than just sold to the highest bidder or the first person who offers the asking price?
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I assume this is directed at me because of my question to Elbie?

No of course I don't think every horse has a good owner. I am not stupid. But it is my impression that the proportion of private owners who care where their horses go to when they leave is is far, far in excess of racehorse owners.

Not every racehorse owner doesn't care, no, but overwhelmingly more than private owners, or even dealers - whose reputation depends on matching horse and buyer.

No-one could doubt this if they pop along to the next multi-day mixed Doncaster sale and see how many will go through on or close to minimum bid 500gns to who knows/cares where. It is no co-incidence that one of the biggest passport scam busts was done on a dealer close to there and in the past I have bought one of their "3/4 ID" horses via an interim owner who could not manage her.

There is only a tiny proportion of private owners in this country who will sell their horses for only just above meat money at an auction. Yes, of course they exist, but not in the numbers that they do in racing.

I am interested to know what the terms of that partnership are. I am interested to know whether Elbie's father, who "loves his little horse" will love it enough when it fails to be fast enough to care where it goes then.

I am sorry that you are uncomfortable about that.
 
eahotson said:
.OK the assault occured in frront of the ENTIRE showground RIGHT outside the ring.It was a large BSJA show.The child made a mistake in the ring, froze and glanced at her father.She finished her round came out the ring dismounted from her pony and her father struck her across the face.No youtube, no mobile phones, no witnesses ha ha because y what was good for them, this was a very wealthy man. I could also have been in personal danger.The child wouldn't have testified.What whould you have done??? If you are implying that it didn't happen because I didn't report it saddly you are wrong.At another show in front of the stewards I saw one mother holding a pony while her child repetedly kicked it in the stomache.AT ANOTHER SOMEONE WAS RIDING A HORSE ROUND REPEATEDLY WHIPPING IT.wHEN i VOICED CONCERN I was told to shut up.In that bastion of wooly minded reporting the Horse and Hound one judge (about 2 years ago) there was a child very overhorsed in the show ring and clearly terrified.She heard the mother say Get a smile on your face or I will smack one on for you!!! Just because this doesn;t fit your world vision doesn't mean it doesn't happen.If you wish I will email you the name of the then child concerned along with the name of a large show jumping team a friend of mine worked for.They taught their horses never to stop by setting up a couple of jumps at a distance the horse couldnt make.When it stopped they pasted it until it wet itself.I can show you how to sweeten ponies that are stopping because they don't trust their riders but I don't think you would want to know.
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...so you are saying that an assault took place on a minor and no-one did a thing?
 
amymay said:
I'm not implying that at all.

And there was a witness - you.
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Damn right!

This is either complete bollox or everyone on that showground was a complete numpty, because I'll tell you this now, I'd be right in there intervening! If he got in my face, he'd have got a kick in the balls....

Outrageous.....
 
Over2You said:
The former is in the name of "sport" and entirely preventable. The latter are accidents!! That is the difference!!
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Yes. Dreadful. Let's ban it right now and string up everyone involved.

It's not that simple though, is it? Racing is one of the largest industries in England- what are your plans for the millions of people that would lose their jobs? What would you do with the horses that no longer had a job?

Oh, that's right. If there was no racing, the vast majority of them would end up dead.
 
vroutledge said:
http://www.horsedeathwatch.com/ this website upsets me so much i wish there was something other than the death penalty for these poor horses, all this modern technology and yet we still haven't figured out a good way to prevent horses having to be PTS from a broken leg etc..........
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That site is run by Animal Aid- an animal rights group. They're hardly an impartial source.
 
To be honest as soon as you say Animal Aid,most of us switch off as like PETA and some others they are the extreme of hostile animal so called aid and a lot of their followers are as you see on this post blinkered in their thinking as you would think owners and trainers are sending their horses out to break a leg, jumping etc:-
 
cptrayes said:
Can I ask you if your Dad knows the rules which have been written somewhere in his contract for what is to happen to the horse if it fails to race fast enough to warrant keeping it, or if it becomes injured? I would be very interested to know whether the welfare of the horse at the end of its racing life is something that his partnership or syndicate have paid any attention to.
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Well my dad has paid for a share of the horse, therefore as a syndicate owner he should be consulted should anything happen. I doubt the contract specifically states "if the horse isn't fast enough we will x, y and z". Training is discussed on a regular basis and the trainer advises plans or makes suggestions for future training. If she gets injured and can't race for a year it's tough luck on my dad, he won't get his money back. They will treat the horse if necessary (i.e. it hasn't broken it's leg) but as a syndicate you still have to pay for the horse. That's the way it is.

TBH, as far as I'm aware the trainer has kept the horses once their race career has ended or the owner has taken her back.
 
When my TB mare came out of racing, the members of the partnership were consulted to see whether anyone wanted to take her on or whether a consensus could be reached about what to do with her. None of the partners wanted to take her on as their own (although at least two would have if there were no other options), and so my parents (who were partners) asked me if I knew anyone who would take her.

I took her as a potential sporthorse/hunter broodmare. She's since had 3 foals, the eldest of which is just backed and the youngest of which is a full TB destined for the track - my OH and I are looking to form a syndicate of friends and relatives to race her. Whatever happens with her, whether she's amazing or awful or anything in between, she will have a home for life (as far as anyone is able to say that) with us once she's retired.

Many racehorse owners are not hands on, but by the same token many are. It's a massive generalisation to say that 'owners don't care' - some do and some don't, as could be said of all equestrian disciplines, be it showing, eventing, anything.

What is true, as with show horses, eventers, etc, is that by and large, the people who handle the horses on a day-to-day basis, the grooms and lads and lasses, DO love the horses very much. Regardless of the actual owner's response, those who have custody of racehorses are generally deeply affected if the worst happens, and mourn the loss as they would a horse of their own.

Please note that I've not said 'all' or 'every' here - we know there is good and bad in every profession. I think it's counterproductive to generalise about either position in order to support an argument.
 
I don't see how anyone can say private owners are generally more caring and more concerned about the future of their horses than racehorse owners/trainers. I've seen SOOOOO many private owners who neglect their horses (and that includes leaving them in a field all day, five, six, seven days a week, without doing anything with them), who sell them on to whoever pays the most money (often to unsuitable homes), who take them to the sales, who don't call the vet when they should because they don't want to spend the money, etc etc etc. And dealers aren't necessarily any better. How many actually say 'no, I won't sell you that horse because you're not good enough'?

My little contact with the racing world - through being a member of a large syndicate and through knowing a couple of people who have studs or other contacts with racehorses - has been quite positive. Horses who don't seem to like racing are taken out (who wants to spend a fortune if they don't think there's a chance of a win or place?) and found another home and another job. Those who have to retire are also found another home and another job. (And not necessarily through the sale ring!!) Besides which, horses that do go through the sale ring often end up in great homes. I went on a riding holiday once on the Scottish borders; they bought a lot of their horses through Doncaster sales. They loved their horses, only accepted reasonably experienced riders and grilled everyone who contacted them to book about their ability and experience to make sure they had people who could cope with the horses and the riding.

As I and others have said before, there are good and bad people everywhere, including in the horse world, and you cannot draw a line down the middle and say private owners are on the good side and racehorse owners are on the bad side.
 
In yesterday's H&H, which I have only just read, two ads grabbed my attention. One was for an Arab which the owner has had since a two-year-old and backed herself, but which now has arthritis in his hocks. The advertiser doesn't say if it's for sale, loan or a giveaway, but it is not a novice ride and has to go to an experienced, professional home only. What experienced, professional home wants an arthritic cast-off?

The other was worse. A 17-year-old Irish mare with arthritis who can walk and trot but nothing else, is being given away free to a good home. Again, what sort of person would take that on? Only someone with no experience/knowledge, or someone who wants to make a quick buck and sell it on, or someone who wants to breed from it - even though an arthritic horse doesn't make the best broodmare, especially one at 17.

To me, this is more cruel than anything that happens in racing. If the horse is permanently unsound, do the right thing by it and have it put down at home. Don't pass the problem on to someone else and risk the horse suffering.
 
the above video is shocking! some people shouldn't be allowed to live in this world they should be tortured slowly and die in pain!!!! it makes me so angry! :mad: racehorses in comparison to the horses in the video are not subjected to intentional cruelty at least they are put down quickly without pain and suffering and distress its all over quickly. id prefer my horse to be put down on a racetrack then ever suffer that on the video it is beyond disgusting :(:(:( if racing was banned many more horses would be transported for slaughter and anyways the saying "you can make a horse go to water but you cannot make him drink". for example King Johns castle in the 2010 grand national refused to start no matter what. you cannot make a horse do anything at all. i feel like crying after that video some people are disgusting
 
Marciamac said:
In yesterday's H&H, which I have only just read, two ads grabbed my attention. One was for an Arab which the owner has had since a two-year-old and backed herself, but which now has arthritis in his hocks. The advertiser doesn't say if it's for sale, loan or a giveaway, but it is not a novice ride and has to go to an experienced, professional home only. What experienced, professional home wants an arthritic cast-off?

The other was worse. A 17-year-old Irish mare with arthritis who can walk and trot but nothing else, is being given away free to a good home. Again, what sort of person would take that on? Only someone with no experience/knowledge, or someone who wants to make a quick buck and sell it on, or someone who wants to breed from it - even though an arthritic horse doesn't make the best broodmare, especially one at 17.

To me, this is more cruel than anything that happens in racing. If the horse is permanently unsound, do the right thing by it and have it put down at home. Don't pass the problem on to someone else and risk the horse suffering.
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You write as if passing on problem horses was exclusive to private ownership. It is not. At least those people advertising those horses were honest, if terribly misguided.

The horse with the permanent sacroiliac instability which my friends brought from Ascot was dumped into the sales. They had it shot, but a bad dealer would have sold it on or put it back through the auctions again. The horse that failed a vetting on a refused blood test was dumped into the sales too, and it came back again the next time as well. This happens on top of the racing deaths, not instead of them.
 
cptrayes said:
You write as if passing on problem horses was exclusive to private ownership. It is not. Really? Do you know of horses which are in public ownership? At least those people advertising those horses were honest, if terribly misguided. The reality is that the advertirsers were unloading knackered and broken down horses on to the gullible and ill advised. HONEST? :eek: There are times cpt when you do make me laugh!!

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Alec.
 
One of those horses in that list was one of mine, Simonsberg had a great life we bought him as a foal so had him for a while, he unfortunately took of to soon paddled through the fence and broke his neck, he has aways been a sound jumper, he had been jumping steeplchase fences since he was 3 with us. Just one of those things, he was educated and treated with the best care from day one.
 
A1JUMPJOCKEY said:
One of those horses in that list was one of mine, Simonsberg had a great life we bought him as a foal so had him for a while, he unfortunately took of to soon paddled through the fence and broke his neck, he has aways been a sound jumper, he had been jumping steeplchase fences since he was 3 with us. Just one of those things, he was educated and treated with the best care from day one.
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A1jump jockey I am sorry but I think you are very unwise to have opened this thread again, especially with this comment.

My own reaction is what the devil a 3 year old was doing being put over steeplechase fences in the first place :(
 
As this is quite fitting with the God thread i just posted on.

I have no time for horse racing and those who partake in any aspect of it.

It is just another form of abuse and should not be justified by any means, and when you start justifying certain abuse others will also try to justify theirs and you cant really point the finger at an animal abuser when your doing it yourself.

I also expect that the 50 horses didnt include those sent off for slaughter due to not being fast enough????

Those horses were raced to death by humans they would still be alive if it wasnt for humans how on earth is that ok???????

Selfish, greedy humans at it AGAIN
 
why wouldnt they?

they are not alive now are they.

if your refering to the fact that TB are also a man made breed then your right but maybe their non existance would be better if it was going to lead to accepted abuse.

I am a fan of TBS i find they have a wonderful nature and are fantastic horses but dont deserve this kind of abuse.
 
geegee84 said:
As this is quite fitting with the God thread i just posted on.

I have no time for horse racing and those who partake in any aspect of it.

It is just another form of abuse and should not be justified by any means, and when you start justifying certain abuse others will also try to justify theirs and you cant really point the finger at an animal abuser when your doing it yourself.

I also expect that the 50 horses didnt include those sent off for slaughter due to not being fast enough????

Those horses were raced to death by humans they would still be alive if it wasnt for humans how on earth is that ok???????

Selfish, greedy humans at it AGAIN
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It's kind of ironic that you hate racing so much and yet your user name is a well known nickname for race horses ... :D
 
well you wont learn anything will you. i havent said anything new.

who else can we blame for the state of the universe? you already knew the answer to that :rolleyes:

and horse racing is justified animal abuse you already knew that anyway. :rolleyes:

you were never meant to learn anything ;)
 
geegee84 said:
.....It is just another form of abuse and should not be justified by any means, ....
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what do you mean? what abuse are you talking about specifically so that it can be properly investigated and dealt with?


geegee84 said:
.....I also expect that the 50 horses didnt include those sent off for slaughter due to not being fast enough????

...
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Do you have the information to hand so that it can be investigated to see if these horses that were not fast enough could have been rehomed instead of going to slaughter?
 
Of course those 50 didn't include any that may or may not have been sent off to slaughter! They are the magnificent, valient beasts that lost their lives doing the job they loved and were designed for! If you want to play that gane then add Brin onto your list! He was a racehorse and a sodding good one at that! Brin died on Saturday. Not in a race, not in training but OUT IN THE FIELD ON HIS HOLIDAYS! How is that abuse?!? He took a notion upon himself to jump out of his field into the path of a truck! Abuse? No! It's called being a horse!
 
Geegee it's people like you that really piss me off! You get on your high horse and claim you know everything there is to know about whatever subject is currently bugging you. You never bother trying to find out about said subject because that would spoil your illusion! Yes some racehorses go to slaughter but most are the ones that are useless, broken or dangerous, and yes some perfectly healthy horses BUT at least racing takes reaponsibilty for it's surplus horses and doesn't just dump them on rescue centres to deal with.
 
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