The 3.15 at Newcastle?

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Alec Swan

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Over 4 miles? Going such as it was? 2 horses finished?

I am the greatest fan of jump racing, but those who would criticise, on this occasion, will have a point. It was a disgrace.

Alec.

ets, I stand corrected, a third horse finished, but that doesn't alter the fact that it was a not particularly edifying. a.
 
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I don't watch racing that often, but i thought the same. Those poor horses were exhausted. I can't believe the 2nd placed horse managed to jump the last fence from a standstill without hurting its self!
 
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12 started - 3 finished. To be fair most of the others either pulled up or refused. But it was totally horrid to watch and will give the anti racing gang fuel. Horses were completely out on their feet and a couple nearly fell over whilst trying to keep going. I haven't heard of any injuries, but you must wonder how many of them will come back and try again after that.

ets The third horse finished so far back that the commentary team thought it had pulled up too.
 
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It's an old race on the calendar contested by out and out stayers and they usually finish a lot better than that. It was just the going was sapping, that was the cause, not that the horses hadn't been fit enough to run the distance normally. It was just the ground that caused the damage although none fell as far as I'm aware.
The third placed jumped superbly the whole way round, would make a fantastic hunter!

I agree, the last two furlongs were not nice to watch but full marks to the winner, he deserved it.
 
It wasnt a pretty sight to see horses so exhausted, it was clearly going to be a stamina sapping race with such heavy ground, and I agree that a few of those horses will jack it in future races. Could the powers that be, have shortened the race to 3.5 miles knowing the condition of the ground, or would that defeat the object of the race?
 
Pastie2: I would have thought it would be down to the trainers to make sure the horses were in a fit state to go into the race, and if they thought the going was too tough for them then pull them, and the jockeys job to ride them according to the conditions?
 
Allover said:
Pastie2: I would have thought it would be down to the trainers to make sure the horses were in a fit state to go into the race, and if they thought the going was too tough for them then pull them, and the jockeys job to ride them according to the conditions?
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Yup, good point.
 
i agree, me and my dad were watching and were shocked. those poor horses could barely put one foot infront of the other and how that second place horse managed to jump the last, i do not know!
I dont know what they could have done, they wouldnt have shortened it and it is down to the trainers to decide if the should scratch or not.
It'll be interesting to see what is said...
 
They'll be damned whatever is decided but their hands would have been tied as the race is down in the calendar as at that distance (as it has been and completed successfully for many years) so they wouldn't have been allowed to shorten it else they would be accused of missing good entries from horses that would have run a shorter distance and that would have put the original 4-milers at a disadvantage from the start. Everyone would have been in uproar if that had happened.
I agree, the last call was down to the trainers who would all have trained their charges specifically for this race and all assumed that whatever the going, they would have been fine and given good accounts of themselves, which in normal circumstances, they would have done. Nobody could have reckoned on the ground being so sapping, if they had, I think the race may have been cancelled altogether but not altered after the entries had been declared. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
 
Maesfen said:
They'll be damned whatever is decided but their hands would have been tied as the race is down in the calendar as at that distance (as it has been and completed successfully for many years) so they wouldn't have been allowed to shorten it else they would be accused of missing good entries from horses that would have run a shorter distance and that would have put the original 4-milers at a disadvantage from the start. Everyone would have been in uproar if that had happened.
I agree, the last call was down to the trainers who would all have trained their charges specifically for this race and all assumed that whatever the going, they would have been fine and given good accounts of themselves, which in normal circumstances, they would have done. Nobody could have reckoned on the ground being so sapping, if they had, I think the race may have been cancelled altogether but not altered after the entries had been declared. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
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Maesfen

you are, of course, entirely right. Had the connections of Companero, faced a shortened course, and if their horse hadn't won, then justifiably, they wouldn't have been too pleased.

To their credit, most of those jockeys who were on horses, which were failing, pulled up. I wouldn't have been that impressed, with the rider who appeared to use a fence to stop his horse, and as has been mentioned, how the second horse to finish coped with the last fence, was a miracle.

In going such as there was, the race should have been postponed. The winner finished the race, and all credit should be given to him.

As a matter of interest, and though "Twitter" is a complete anathema to me, there are many serious racegoers who are offering the opinion that Newcastle shouldn't have contemplated racing today, and that to a man, they were sickened. It was a sickening spectacle, and the race should have been held over, to a later date. I would hope that a lesson has been learned.

Alec.
 
I think that if it had been any other raceday, it'd have been fine. But they knew there was a race over 4m, so I don't think it should have gone ahead.

However, I agree that they were damned if they did, damned if they didn't. The trainers and jockeys were obviously happy to run, and it is a massive day for Newcastle, and with so many other abandonments this season they were probably thinking almost purely financially. I can see why they did race - it was raceable going and everyone must have been happy, although I agree it wasn't nice to watch.

However, all the horses returned absolutely fine, no one finished totally exhausted and most jockeys pulled up when they realised it was hopeless, no one pushed further than they had to. They were lucky the horses were ok though, and I'm sure a lesson has been learned thanks to the negative reaction from a lot of racing people.
 
Was painful to watch. Think the worst moment was watching the horse who finished second, Giles Cross, jump the last. The horse quite literally landed over the fence on all four feet and for a moment, just stood there.
 
scotlass said:
Was painful to watch. Think the worst moment was watching the horse who finished second, Giles Cross, jump the last. The horse quite literally landed over the fence on all four feet and for a moment, just stood there.
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Yes! that was the most awful bit of the race. I am sure he will be fine in the morning though, he might not be inclined to put himself out in his next race. I wouldnt blame him either.
 
I haven't seen the race but, I guess the going was heavy/soft, and the temperature was fairly mild this afternoon, factors like that all make a difference over a race as long as this.
FWIW my horse would be an out and out stayer but he is slow, could the race have been run a little quick for most?
If a race is advertised as 4 miles it can't just be shortened can it?
 
I watched this race and as an avid NH fan it didnt make for pleasant viewing.

According to the Racing Post site trainers were aware of the expected going a few days in advance and the expectio of more rain.

This meeting was abandoned last year after even worse conditions.

This race is used as a Grand National Trial and I would have thought any chance Comply Or die will win a second Grand National would be pretty slim after today. Although I think most jockeys would have nursed their horses as much as possible those horses lok murdered to me.

No horse was injured or put down and statistics say under those conditions horses are less likely to get hurt I presume as its speed that causes horses to make mistakes and get injured.
 
The commentators said part way through that they were going a sensible pace given the attrocious conditions and I read on another forum that the time was 62 seconds slower than the next slowest time for this race. So, no, in my opinion it wasn't that they went too fast. The going was very, very bad. I suspect that we have been really extraordinarily lucky that this didn't turn into another tragedy for the horses and for the sport.

Hindsite is a wonderful thing though - but clearly questions should be asked about whether the ground really was good enough for racing to go ahead at Newcastle today.
 
Baggybreeches ,I was just thinking about you and your boy,while trying to reply. (and wondering if I would upset you if I compared the runners with your boy:D).The fundamental problem with racing is that the winner is the first past the post and in all normal circumstances that means the fastest. Speed in a racehorse is highly desirable ,but a weakness. The length of pastern that gives speed puts huge strain on the tendons. Big heavy horses that can stay are just too slow or break down. The kind of horse that could pick up the odd race ,back in the 60,s would make BB,s horse look like Desert Orchid."Improvements " in drainage ,and sizes of fences ,have speeded up races and left little room for the old fashioned "mud plugger". This is not a good thing.We now breed for weakness and speed. Dont feel too sorry for a few gutsy horses who ran a tough race. There are not enough races like this.We need to keep the sort of stamina and strength this requires in the gene pool.
 
Mike007 said:
"Improvements " in drainage ,and sizes of fences ,have speeded up races and left little room for the old fashioned "mud plugger".
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This is a huge point IMO, the guys at Aintree are constantly told to 'water the course' but what the powers that be seem to forget is that all the effort that has been spent on drainage, renders the watering pretty pointless!

And Mike I would never be offended by somebody using my boy as an example, I know his weaknesses and I love him because he is a nice person!
 
Baggybreeches said:
This is a huge point IMO, the guys at Aintree are constantly told to 'water the course' but what the powers that be seem to forget is that all the effort that has been spent on drainage, renders the watering pretty pointless!

And Mike I would never be offended by somebody using my boy as an example, I know his weaknesses and I love him because he is a nice person!
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I love old fashioned stayers , they may not win many races but they have given so many owners so many great days racing. The kind of owners who secretly dont really care if "Dobbin" comes in last as long as he is safe.(I also have a lot of time for owners like that)
 
I only know the view of one trainer at Kempton but their feeling was that it was a very poor spectacle. The jockeys are not to blame - the race took 9 1/2 mins, 69 secs over the standard. If they had gone much slower they wouldn't have had the momentum to jump the fences and even the winner had to make a huge effort at the last couple of fences. The 2nd landed virtually in trot and was in trot as he crossed the line and the 3rd horse stopped for a bit before continuing to finishes ages after the others. There was certainly an element who questioned the wisdom of racing taking place at Newcastle in those conditions. It wasn't racing, it was survival.
 
I dont blame the jockeys either ,but I feel they are a product of their times. 40 years ago the race would have been ridden very differently,simply because the jockeys would have been more experienced in dealing with these conditions. Yes it is about survival.You need to hunt round as a pack and get the first 2.5 miles out the way, then pick up the pace. Burn it up too soon and you grind to a halt. Weather is unpredictable,I have ridden in a race when there was a freak thunderstorm 10 minutes before the off . It flooded the course. Too late to stop the race (jockey club rules) .We jumped in 6 inches of water at times. Everybody was looking out for each other till the last three,(afterwhich anything goes:D). learnt a lot in that race. Lost my whip ,taking a fence ,horse and rider as a triple and discovered that "hands and heals" realy do work better. Oh gawd I must be getting old.
 
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