The agility thread

CorvusCorax said:
Agility lines are often cortisol city. But often the thing that makes dogs look so fast and flashy and stylish (in any sport) is thin nerve and that bleeds out in other ways.
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This could be said of Field Trial line spaniels too, but any hint of aggression gets you disqualified at both WT and FT so it just doesn't happen, no matter how wired the dog is.
 
druid said:
This could be said of Field Trial line spaniels too, but any hint of aggression gets you disqualified at both WT and FT so it just doesn't happen, no matter how wired the dog is.
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There was a dog at the last kc show I was at that left the ring and went into another ring on 2 separate occasions. The second time it was only quick reactions from the owner of the dog that it had a go at that prevented a nasty incident . The owner of aggressor dog was asked to leave the show .
 
MurphysMinder said:
There was a dog at the last kc show I was at that left the ring and went into another ring on 2 separate occasions. The second time it was only quick reactions from the owner of the dog that it had a go at that prevented a nasty incident . The owner of aggressor dog was asked to leave the show .
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I would be mortified if my dog left the ring like that.

They would not have had to ask me to leave. I would have immediately left.

Bonkers that they allowed it to happen a second time.
 
Jenko109 said:
I would be mortified if my dog left the ring like that.

They would not have had to ask me to leave. I would have immediately left.

Bonkers that they allowed it to happen a second time.
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She knew it was a problem too , because I was on leads for the first ring and she told me she was worried about the proximity of the next ring 🙄
 
And another thing.

A lot of dogs in agility and obedience are rescues and yes, some of them don't have the genetics or temperament for a high pressure environment. I started out with a dog that wasn't cut out for what we were doing and I realised it wasn't right for him so I went and got a horse for the course when I was ready.

However I did as much as he was capable before stopping...we all have to start somewhere and being exclusionary will not encourage anyone into a sport, and then they will cry that there are no new people in said sport. The vast majority of dog sport people rocked up with an unsuitable dog, but that was the dog who taught them everything they now know.

What does the KC suppose people do with the increasing amounts of high drive, energetic dogs that people are (often accidentally) acquiring?

There was a way to go about this to make it beneficial for everyone, and this wasn't it. I wonder what their PR team is thinking, or whether they employ anyone who knows about dogs.
 
They don't want my slow dog, they don't want my reactive dog, they appear to be unconcerned about potentially alienating a huge swathe of grassroots competitors - y'know, the ones that pay fees and volunteer their time to run shows.

I do understand a bit where they are coming from with the 'yellow things don't absolve you of responsibility' angle because there are plenty of people who will chuck one on and then still wander about unconcernedly at shows, blundering into queues and standing in ring exits, who then probably blame the other party when the altercation hits the incident book. I do occasionally use a lead sleeve. Never out on walks day to day, because it's pointless, but in the context of an agility show it's a useful visual shorthand for 'I've parked us over here for a reason, please don't walk your eyeballing dog straight into us'. I don't expect anyone to modify their behaviour on seeing it except for the tiniest bit of awareness of what is going on around them and basic courtesy of not letting strange dogs meet head to head or invade each others' space, especially in what is already a high stress environment. That shouldn't be too much to ask but the KC statement contradicts this.

At the moment I choose to run my youngest at shows with fenced rings not because I believe she would ever leave the ring - if I thought that to be true I wouldn't run her at all - but because I don't trust that other people can prevent their dogs from leaving theirs, or from lunging under the ropes, or that I won't suddenly encounter half a dozen wound-up dogs in the finish area standing over my lead. She has never, ever made contact with another dog despite many (fenceless) opportunities, some under extreme provocation. However, because of her size and breed, and because she is visually 'reactive' and would put on a good scary show of barking and lunging, she would always be portrayed in the worst light if something happened. If other people had a shred of that over-caution we'd be golden. Anyone trying to tell me it's a training or resilience issue can also have a poke in the eye with a shitty stick because any other dog would have fallen apart and be a quivering wreck by now. Agility is the absolute making of for many dogs like her.

The KC councils repeatedly dismiss proposals like ring fencing, protected entry and exit zones, increased distances between rings etc. for what are often IMO spurious reasons. There was a batshit situation at Worcester this year where in two different rings I saw dogs take a tunnel in an adjacent ring, due to the close proximity (and I suppose you can blame our increasing desire for distance/drive/speed too). A head on crash in a tunnel between two fast dogs doesn't bear thinking about. And yet any proposal aimed at reducing these incidences is shot down.

It really is hard to come to any other conclusion at the minute that they only want a certain kind of person and a certain kind of dog to compete. Having made it a bit of a point of pride to train and run non-typical dogs, having started with the unsuitable dog that taught me everything worth knowing, that's me buggered. 🙄
 
Vet tonight. Although appearing sound at home today, 5 minutes in the paddock with the vet and she was lame again. Not nearly on the level she was last night, it's subtle, but she is occasionally pushing off with both back legs and has a lack of her usual extension. She has some heat in her left stifle and is weight shifting off it when manipulated. I have been forbidden from contemplating the words cruciate or iliopsoas and we'll reassess after a week of complete rest and NSAIDs.
 
blackcob said:
Vet tonight. Although appearing sound at home today, 5 minutes in the paddock with the vet and she was lame again. Not nearly on the level she was last night, it's subtle, but she is occasionally pushing off with both back legs and has a lack of her usual extension. She has some heat in her left stifle and is weight shifting off it when manipulated. I have been forbidden from contemplating the words cruciate or iliopsoas and we'll reassess after a week of complete rest and NSAIDs.
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Fingers crossed for you both xx
 
MurphysMinder said:
There was a dog at the last kc show I was at that left the ring and went into another ring on 2 separate occasions. The second time it was only quick reactions from the owner of the dog that it had a go at that prevented a nasty incident . The owner of aggressor dog was asked to leave the show .
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While he's in no way aggressive, I'm not convinced Fen wouldn't leave the ring just yet, not to chase but just have a nosey, so we're focusing on fenced venues for now....because thats the responsible thing to do. As someone else said, it would only need to happen once and he wouldn't run again!
 
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Bc having seen your girl in the ring I agree with you that she wouldn’t leave the ring to have a go , she is totally focussed on the job and you . But after a lifetime of owning shepherds you are so right they will always get the blame 🙁. And as for the new timings , Zig has never had a time fault but I suspect that may change , and P would have been buggered !
 
I would love for all rings to be fenced and gated, and not to have dogs and people milling around exits. I used to hope that one day my not very fast but never touches a pole dog might just grade up to G2 with a steady clear, but I’m buggered with that now. I take note of yellow warnings I see and give extra big room, but maybe those warnings will disappear now. I do it for fun but get weary when I can’t compete with large collies, which are super driven.

I’ve actually done a bit of research into lurcher racing, hurdles etc, and we will have a go at that at a local show in August. I think Rew will enjoy it as there’s no weaves, which he loathes. I will probably still do steeplechases, helter skelters etc at agility shows but may give up the KC classes, and try again with my next dog one day.

It’s all a bit depressing tbh.
 
I would love to see rings fenced.

I mean proper fenced. All the way round with an exit and entry 'gate'

It only takes one negative experience of a dog being chased down by another in the ring, to stop that dog ever wanting to compete again.

There has been more focus on the safety of equipment, but I would like to see a focus on the safety of the environment, too.
 
I will try and dig out the council notes from the last proposal about it but my impression has always been that they have no time at all for any measures aimed at regulating the agility environment.

I may have to suck up the 4+ hour drive to support shows like FAB in future.
 
What are the differences with FAB?

The one and only winter venue in Devon is used by various clubs, sometimes there are two rings in one arena with one narrow corridor down the long side, and double nettings (but no space) between the two rings. I stopped doing those shows last year - for me it’s one ring per arena thanks, my dog doesn’t need the full on stress involved.
 
Does anyone know what the KC ARE actually trying to achieve?
Will their regulations make things safer, better, increase participation at grass roots or any other level?
From what I’m reading above it’s going to be the best people doing it and no ‘amateurs’. If the KC exists for the benefit of dogs (stop laughing, all) then surely a safe, inclusive sport where all shapes and sizes of dogs can be encouraged to exercise, think and be trained is an absolute supportable Godsend?
 
Clodagh said:
I meant more than that rule, sorry, I meant the micro and the speeds and the time faults etc etc. (my fault I wasn’t clear).
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I don’t know, but it is certainly making it a lot harder, which is demoralising if like me you enjoy your training, compete for fun but celebrate every tiny success. There is another agility group ?agility for all maybe, but they don’t run anywhere near me.
 
Spotherisk said:
I don’t know, but it is certainly making it a lot harder, which is demoralising if like me you enjoy your training, compete for fun but celebrate every tiny success. There is another agility group ?agility for all maybe, but they don’t run anywhere near me.
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As you know my perception of Agility was previously limited to Crufts footage. So it was like assuming that every level showjumping was like HOYS. It’s such an eye opener going to a local show and seeing all shapes and sizes of dogs doing stuff wrong and generally everyone having a ball. Perhaps the KC board should attend one.
 
You could argue that even Crufts used to be more inclusive - they got rid of the teams competition, which favoured reliable dogs of which many wouldn't have had the speed to qualify solo.

There are alternatives, my #1 club has a long history of inclusivity. They took a husky when no other local clubs would touch her with a bargepole, and will always have my loyalty for that, and also offered micro an astonishing 20 years ago. Needing alternatives mostly limits you to unaff competition though.
 
CorvusCorax said:
My own sport has cracked down massively in the last few years as regards social/environmental behaviour.
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I have been thinking on this a bit - am I right in understanding that where dogs are expected to work in proximity to another dog, that this is in a fairly rigid and predictable way? I.E dog one will be doing exercise A, dog two will be doing exercise B, and the distance between them and the expectations and behaviour of the handler and any ring helpers or spectators will be very similar each time. And that more broadly, because of the types of dog involved there will generally be less of an expectation for dogs to congregate in small areas or come head to head and handlers will naturally avoid doing so?

By contrast, at an agility show there are so many variables that are completely out of the handler's control, to the extent that it's astonishing that most dogs cope with them really.

Just musing, as you know my dog is hilariously unreactive in the presence of any paraphernalia associated with your sport, and I don't think genetics work quite that neatly 🤣 but the absolute predictability of the environment must count for something.
 
blackcob said:
I have been thinking on this a bit - am I right in understanding that where dogs are expected to work in proximity to another dog, that this is in a fairly rigid and predictable way? I.E dog one will be doing exercise A, dog two will be doing exercise B, and the distance between them and the expectations and behaviour of the handler and any ring helpers or spectators will be very similar each time. And that more broadly, because of the types of dog involved there will generally be less of an expectation for dogs to congregate in small areas or come head to head and handlers will naturally avoid doing so?

By contrast, at an agility show there are so many variables that are completely out of the handler's control, to the extent that it's astonishing that most dogs cope with them really.

Just musing, as you know my dog is hilariously unreactive in the presence of any paraphernalia associated with your sport, and I don't think genetics work quite that neatly 🤣 but the absolute predictability of the environment must count for something.
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One dog is always down in the obedience while the other works, but they have to report in together. At a club or national trial check-in all of the dogs are out at the same time, and at the worlds, you have to wait in a long queue for the vet check, there's an opening and closing ceremony and holding areas, which can get a bit tight. In the BH the dogs have to be tied up with owner out of sight while another dog walks past, and in the BH and WB, pass a dog on leash as if they were walking past in the street.
The worlds is the worst purely because of the volume of dogs, as mentioned there's often a lot of agility/rally/obedience people sharing the same spaces, lots of (not always very considerate) spectators with dogs etc.
And like I say, disqualification can come at any point.
 
Ahh okay, the rest is not as regimented as I had perhaps imagined. One of those things I need to experience really to know the difference in atmosphere. Still suspect that agility comes with a greater chance of having a dog gobbing off at yours from <2m away as they are working in the ring, or actually entering the ring and chasing your dog (ok that one isn't usual but not exactly infrequent either).

Scuse my ponderings, it's only day one of large dog house arrest. Small dog is taking her session this evening, he'll be in for a shock if that has to continue.
 
blackcob said:
Ahh okay, the rest is not as regimented as I had perhaps imagined. One of those things I need to experience really to know the difference in atmosphere. Still suspect that agility comes with a greater chance of having a dog gobbing off at yours from <2m away as they are working in the ring, or actually entering the ring and chasing your dog (ok that one isn't usual but not exactly infrequent either).

Scuse my ponderings, it's only day one of large dog house arrest. Small dog is taking her session this evening, he'll be in for a shock if that has to continue.
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It's really, really hard to replicate some of the nutso things I've seen at closing ceremonies. Oompah bands, samba bands and dancers, hot air balloons...
 
blackcob said:
Do you know what brand it is? I’ve run on Juta at DSD and at Statfold and it’s great, even V rarely slips on it unless she’s doing something really batshit. Grippy enough to wear normal flat trainers even.

One note of caution is that the underlay at Statfold seemed to be quite bouncy and they also make quite a pitter-patter noise as they run, small dog found this very exciting and went unexpectedly like a rocket the first time I took him there.
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Spoke to physio today re the surface, and turns out they (physios) worked with the club to get the surface right. It is the same as DSD and she said should be great for Zig.
 
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