The best horses cost the most money - DISCUSS

I think it depends on at what level you want to start and compete at and how good a rider you are.

If you are not that good a rider and want to compete at a high level immediately the sort of horse that would take you there would be expensive as it would need to be easy to ride, well educated, forgiving and talented too as well as having no quirks or health issues. These sort of equine superstars are rare and going to be pricey.
 
I have just bought a lovely mare to BSJA, she is a lovely school mistress, but weaves a bit and is 12. She has got masses of scope, and I am planning to fulfil a long held dream of jumping at hickstead this year, she cost me less than £2300 ( don't want to say exactly how much).
She is very easy ride, lovely at shows, and pretty enough to do a bit of WH (probably not very successfully haha).
I would agree though, that it does depend what you want to do, she is jumping 1.20 at home quite happily, and tbh I will probably not want to do much more than newcomers anyway.
 
My 'heinz 57' horse, mostly TB and Connemara, out of Ireland at 5 years old basically schooled cost me £800 - he had a habbit of ditching people! After working through that and finding something he enjoyed (xc/hunting) I ended up being offered over £15k for him (trust me he isn't worth that much to be honest - he was 13 when I recieved this offer).

It depends on peoples perception of a 'good' horse, and what they are looking for so it is not an easy question to judge. A 'good' horse, will always be worth more money than a 'bad' one- that is the way the world works. But just because something is bad does not mean it cannot be made to look good!
 
@LizzyandToddy - well done you, he's obviously worth more than the offered £15K to you, if you refused to part with him :) bless him, sounds like you're a perfect partnership :)

@siennamiller - great deal, for you she's a great horse, sounds like you can accomplish a lot with her. So, you got the best horse possible for a shoestring budget! looking forward to the pictures from Hickstead! :) (no pressure though!! :)
 
@TarrSteps - great that you can see both sides, thanks for sharing your observations and experiences. With regards to your comment "A horse without an active hind leg might be quite competitive up to Novice if it's pretty and ridable, but you're stuffed much beyond that. " - AGREED. An active hindleg for dressage is essential. Nicely worded.

Your other comment has some merit ("I think it is a fallacy that money always buys 'an easy life' to success. It doesn't strike me that too many GP or 4* riders have it easy, and the same is largely true for competitive amateurs. I think there is something quite snobbish about saying 'So and so paid £xx,xxx for their horse but I didn't so that makes me a better rider.' In my experience it doesn't usually work out so neatly ").
To be clear, I'm sure we all know of a few people with big financial resources to spare, who've been relatively new and inexperienced and have bought a mega-star for a lot of money, and with the right support, they're out competing before long at the higher levels and getting some ribbons. It's super for them that they have progressed so quickly. It is definitely a short-cut to whatever their goals are, and there is nothing wrong with that. If I had a spare £150K to buy a mega-star like this, and be out in the autumn at the highest levels - would I do it? Not sure. I like a bit of a challenge, I like to produce things with my own hands, I like the sense of reward that goes along with having done it myself...it also enables you to build up a bond / a strong relationship with the horse having been through so much together over the years that you're building it up. Like I said earlier, I enjoy the journey, not just the final destination.

With regards to an earlier comment you made about the costs of production - you're absolutely right, and it needs to be considered. But is it better to not ride for 2-4 years, save up masses of money (or pray that you win Euromillions) for an advanced horse - when you could be cracking on with a equally quality horse, albeit a young version of the other one, and reach the same goals in the same time frame? Anyway, if I reached all my goals at once, there'd be nothing left to do, I'd be bored :) - it's better to savour one's current level and each level that they progress to, than to get it all at once, I think it's appreciated more when it's a bit more drawn out :)) But that's just my personal view.
However, a pro, who is trying to build a name and a professional career, would no doubt want success and results as quickly as possible, so that's a different situation...and it's best for them to get the highest quality possible.

Anyway, these are just my own views...it's an interesting topic, with certainly lots of different angles and perspectives!
 
I don't agree, All my horses were under £ 2 k. I would not pay more than £ 8 K that is just me.
Though truthfully I would not spend more than £ 3 k. I have done and achieved what I wanted with the horses I brought / bred without getting a mortgage out to buy a horse.
 
If you buy an established horse performing at a high level although you buy the horse, you can't buy the partnership that that horse has with it's current rider. You have to establish that yourself and if you are a talented rider then you stand a good chance of doing that even if it's a bit quirky. However, for most amateur riders when we pay a substantial amount for an established horse we are paying for rideability and that's why talented but safe horses are at such a premium. I know of a couple of event horses that did really well with pro riders and sold for loads of £ to amateurs soon sussed out what they could get away with. The trouble with so many talented horses is they are also clever.
 
My first horse was very cheap. He was quirky and had been at a sales barn for 12 years (he was 15 when I got him). We worked well together and competed at 'A' rated (national) shows. He won me all sorts of stuff. Today, however, I think that in Vancouver, at least, riding has turn much more into a rich man's sport and in order to be competitive in the same levels that I was competing at, the horse is going to cost about $15,000 more than I spent.. Just to be in the ribbons. When I had my guy (and this was ten years ago), a solid, consistent round could win. Now, it has to be much more. My guy would be competitive at the smaller local shows today.
 
Andiamo said:
@TarrSteps - great that you can see both sides, thanks for sharing your observations and experiences. With regards to your comment "A horse without an active hind leg might be quite competitive up to Novice if it's pretty and ridable, but you're stuffed much beyond that. " - AGREED. An active hindleg for dressage is essential. Nicely worded.

Your other comment has some merit ("I think it is a fallacy that money always buys 'an easy life' to success. It doesn't strike me that too many GP or 4* riders have it easy, and the same is largely true for competitive amateurs. I think there is something quite snobbish about saying 'So and so paid £xx,xxx for their horse but I didn't so that makes me a better rider.' In my experience it doesn't usually work out so neatly ").
To be clear, I'm sure we all know of a few people with big financial resources to spare, who've been relatively new and inexperienced and have bought a mega-star for a lot of money, and with the right support, they're out competing before long at the higher levels and getting some ribbons. It's super for them that they have progressed so quickly. It is definitely a short-cut to whatever their goals are, and there is nothing wrong with that. If I had a spare £150K to buy a mega-star like this, and be out in the autumn at the highest levels - would I do it? Not sure. I like a bit of a challenge, I like to produce things with my own hands, I like the sense of reward that goes along with having done it myself...it also enables you to build up a bond / a strong relationship with the horse having been through so much together over the years that you're building it up. Like I said earlier, I enjoy the journey, not just the final destination.
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That's great if that is what you enjoy. But what money also buys especially young people in the sport is a very streamlined and focused education and I think you might be surprised how well some of those "fast track" kids ride. It's a convenient belief that riding difficult horses with no/insufficient direction is the "best" way to become a good rider but given the number of people who have been riding for decades and still, frankly, do not ride well, I don't think you can assume that either. Those of us that can't afford to spend masses of our money really want to believe that we are doing "better" by our horses and our riding. But many of the kids I know that have had good ponies and super coaching are, in fact, very skilled. It's pretty rare to find anyone riding on Teams now who wasn't well supported, mounted and trained as a junior. We may not like it, but it's the way of the world.

With regards to an earlier comment you made about the costs of production - you're absolutely right, and it needs to be considered. But is it better to not ride for 2-4 years, save up masses of money (or pray that you win Euromillions) for an advanced horse - when you could be cracking on with a equally quality horse, albeit a young version of the other one, and reach the same goals in the same time frame? Anyway, if I reached all my goals at once, there'd be nothing left to do, I'd be bored :) - it's better to savour one's current level and each level that they progress to, than to get it all at once, I think it's appreciated more when it's a bit more drawn out :)) But that's just my personal view.
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The assumption there would be that anyone can do the producing and get the same result though. This is patently not true, not just from the standpoint of the horse's education, but also from the "wear and tear" aspect. It's actually very difficult to produce even a very good horse to the top level and and it takes a dedicated, experienced group to do it, which also takes time and experience to judge and acquire.

The fact is most of us won't use even a fraction of our horse's potential so it's really no matter. And there is a large amount of luck involved, even if you're very good.

If one of your goals is to enjoy the process of production then this is money well spent to have a younger horse. But if you feel that someone who produces a horse or two over a life time will do a "better" job at producing the absolute best end result for any particular horse, on a purely objective competitive scale, no, probably not. That said, the odds are decent they will produce the "best" horse for them because the horse will learn to adjust to their riding, live in their circumstances etc. Often it's very hard for a horse from a professions program to adjust to a less managed environment and training style. Which goes to production costs, as the getting the best result for someone buying a horse from a high powered program will often involve keeping the management similar, which costs money. Again, the horse is the cheap part!
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However, a pro, who is trying to build a name and a professional career, would no doubt want success and results as quickly as possible, so that's a different situation...and it's best for them to get the highest quality possible.

Anyway, these are just my own views...it's an interesting topic, with certainly lots of different angles and perspectives!
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I think, contrary to belief, pros rarely have big bucks to spend, at least near the beginning of their careers. You could argue they often end up with the talented but more difficult horses that require huge amounts of time and dedication, then they throw everything they can into their own education in order to make the most of it. Lots of pros will say, after they make it big, that they would probably not have the horse that made their name if it was offered to them again, as they could ride three 'nice' horses in the same time. Most "true" amateurs would really struggle to find the time to fit a horse like that in around their other commitments.

I do think it does all come back to defining "best" and that is always going to be personal.
 
@TarrSteps - thanks for the great response. Obviously it's a topic you are quite passionate about! (or frustrated about ;)

You summed it up really well with your comment:

"I do think it does all come back to defining "best" and that is always going to be personal."
 
i always think pay as much as you can as most horses cost the same to look after!....i do believe you do get in most cases what you pay for.....there are of course flukes and people with a good eye but a good horse which has had correct training, is sane and most importantly 100 per cent sound will cost ...
 
Andiamo said:
@TarrSteps - thanks for the great response. Obviously it's a topic you are quite passionate about! (or frustrated about ;)

You summed it up really well with your comment:

"I do think it does all come back to defining "best" and that is always going to be personal."
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Probably. :) My working life is largely devoted to helping horses fit best into their situations and owners to get best from their horses with the best use of time, effort and money. There is never one right answer but i have always found it's most productive to be hopefully realistic, which is not always something horse people are good at. ;) Dreams are great but you always end up putting the time, money and effort in one way or the other. :)

Just to the note about saving up to buy a horse you can't really afford. . . this always makes me a bit nervous, especially if it comes at the expense of riding in the mean time. Sometimes life has to take precedence and people have to stop, maybe for years, for the sake of career, kids etc. But you only really improve your riding by riding and NOT riding in order to further that goal isn't productive. Also, as discussed, production costs a lot, even if the goals are quite modest. One of the mistakes I often see people make is to blow the whole budget on the horse, then not have enough for training, transport, vet bills, facilities, enough competitions etc. This usually ends in tears. You can have fun with any suitable horse and most of the people i see having the most fun are the ones who have a horse that fits their real life and the funds to enjoy it.
 
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Most riders would do better with an ordinary, conformationally correct horse, with a good temperament and an interest in the preferred discipline. I have both - a highly bred, highly talented horse who was almost born knowing what to do (if you ask correctly), and a very sweet TB who loves dressage but isn't flashy. I've got further with my TB to be honest, as she's easier to ride and train, more willing to accommodate my mistakes when we learn together, and generally loves the sport and always tries her best. The talented one - we get on ok, but she's trickier to ride and gets upset easily. She can be amazing - or something can upset her on the way to the test and the whole thing can be pointless as she's in a bad mood!
 
i think so much depends on what is *best* to each person.

for a real true team potential horse (and to include all the training and travel that goes with that),
£40k is not a big enough budget!

CS cost £1k on the nose and this year will take me to PSG Petplan Champs and PSG regionals. I would NEVER have thought £1k would get me there, but on the other hand he's a tricky barstool and its a very up and down journey. to me the downs are worth the ups but some people would not cope and he would be their worst nightmare and not horse of a lifetime.

its all relative.
 
Prince33Sp4rkle said:
To me the downs are worth the ups but some people would not cope and he would be their worst nightmare and not horse of a lifetime.

its all relative.
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Completely this. I got Bob 4 years ago as a 12 y/o school master. I took him on knowing that he'd had colic surgery, almost died, did both hind suspensories, and has kidney damage (which will eventually finish him off) - I took him on knowing all of that, which was a huge risk, but his training, personality, safeness, enjoyable-ness was what persuaded me. I was told by the owners that he wouldn't be able to do much jumping, and only 2ft6 max and that he'd do low level dressage once a month if that. Well, he's out at BD Ele, aiming Medium in summer, qualified for PetPlans and almost Regionals. Eventing wise he'd previously evented to Novice with points and had to have him downgraded. Ok, were only out at 90, aiming 100 in July, but I only started riding him with the view to compete less than 2 years ago! Before that, I'd been a polo player for 10 years! He's taught me everything I know! And he's still going strong!

I have no doubt that I'll see him to the end of his life, and when the time comes to get another horse, I'm still undecided whether to get something young and work on it myself with the knowledge I've gained through Bob and my trainers, or to get something with a proven record that's a bit older...

Price of Bob: nothing. Nada. Freebie. Best freebie ever! We've had good times and bad times, but that's the way it is with horses! I initially thought he'd just take me round as he's so experienced! Hell no!

The horse is only as good as its rider...
 
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