The biting HAS to stop

[Marydoll]

For some horses, I quick slap works wonders. For others it will make them 100x worse.

It depends WHY they're doing it. Being a cheeky little sod? I'd smack them before i'd even thought about it. Threatening and warning you off whilst you're still 10ft away? Absolutely not, as there's something far more serious going no than trying their luck. The biting is the end stage of the handler not listening to all the prior warnings! Ignoring all the warnings then punishing the horse when it esculate will only make them MORE defensive. To sort that kind of issue, you need to sort the root cause: why is the horse warning you off in the first place?

Agree with this, im not against a smack, i have a horse who can be a bit nippy while having rug fastened at the front when in season, and while i sympathise with her discomfort at this time, i wont take a bite for it, a swift elbow to the chops worked wonders and she soon stopped.
This is different to what the op describes, its almost like the horse anticipates rough handling, (i dont mean you op, ) possibly a poor handler in a past life and is getting her warnings in, it sounds more like a confidence building issue, id have to think about that one .

 

[Equilibrium Ireland]

Interesting replies here. I do really think, I have no proof, it's individual. Continually smacking one though will not accomplish anything. I have one that was apparently walloped quite often when away in training. That's a very long story which I'm not going to get into. Obviously I got back a very defensive mare. Times she's bit me, zero. Face pulling and big bad ass tude when walking into her, all the time. Once I'm in there I do what needs done, brush, or tack up, whatever. As soon as I'm in there to do something, the faces stop. While she can stand tied as long as needed, I do most things untied with them relaxing. Any horse. I'm sure that's wrong but for me it works well and everyone is used to the method. I do the same when they live out.

Thing about it is in my experience continually smacking doesn't work. By the same token I'm not a bunny higher who let's her horses walk all over her. But there is a grey area that's different for all horses and their humans. Most of mine have spent their lives with me and grown up with me. They know right from wrong but are not robots. Mine have never been walloped with a dressage whip yet if I carry one it's because someone has pushed it too far and nothing escalates.

Why we are so hell bent on making ourselves out to be the most amazing horseman for every situation is beyond me. It's not a contest. Piling on and making people feel stupid is beyond me.

So OP, my advice is I don't know. I'm on a computer. My experience is my experience and probably not helpful in your situation. The biggest thing that helps me is I just show no fear. I just go in and do what needs done. It's quite hard to explain really. Trust me if you all were to meet my face puller you'd think I was an idiot. Yet it's a non issue. As soon as she's out of the box there are no faces and grump behavoir. But like I said, I can do anything with her in there and as soon as she knows whats up, it's over. Best of luck.

Terri

 

[Eccles]

If your horse goes to bite you, you will not make him headshy by giving him one sharp tap. But be quick. It is not repeated smacking, and as it is not something you have tried, this is what I would do, particularly as you say he was gelded late.

 

[horsemadelsie]

If my horse actually bites me then he gets a smack on the nose. If he was to bite another horse then the other horse would retaliate so I figure I'm just doing the same. At one point he liked being hit (he likes to get a reaction from people- thats why he bites) and I found that the only thing that worked was poking him on his nostril. It wasn't enough to hurt him or make him headshy, but he really seemed to dislike it and pretty much stopped biting me. In the end he would bite anyone apart from me because I was the only one who poked him. Strange but it worked

 

[Footlights]

OK, OP you say that your horse is an ex-racer, a biter and was gelded late. Mine is too.

I got him when he was 7 1/2 and he'd been gelded 6 months. He would launch when tied and being groomed. He hated contact and is really thin skinned. Put tack on him and he became a big teddy bear. He bit me on my arm a couple of days after I got him and my instinct was to smack him back on his chest. BIG mistake. He literally attacked me taking a real chunk. I've been round horses all my life and have never seen anything like it and I've had those that if given a smack would never put a foot wrong again but not Baz!

So, how did I overcome it? Time, consistency, not taking risks and building a relationship. It was also found he had ulcers which were treated. I tied him short when handling, kept grooming brief and got him comfortable with me in his space over a period of time. I also bought and used a fieldsafe headcollar for a few months after he had an attempt in the field too.

Now, I can do anything with him - rug him loose in the field, tack up loose in the field/stable. He still pulls grumpy faces and I will growl at him but he has learnt to respect me, not from hitting, but from learning to trust. I do believe that there is a reason for all behaviour - and the combination of change of regime, perhaps a past history of rough handling and the fact he was gelded late are all going to be factors.

I would still advocate a firm smack if a horse was just being naughty but not with one with real intentions. The sense of achievement I have from changing Baz's behaviour is brilliant - it just takes time. Good luck!

Are you sure I don't have your horse!!?? You have just described my boy down to a tee! Lol how long did it take to build a relationship with him? Very interesting indeed.

 

[Cazzah]

I bought him in August 08, the last time he bit anyone was January 09. He was improving dramatically after a couple of months and was also treated with Gastrogard for his ulcers around this time too (they were only low grade). I was firm (but no hitting as he would come back twice as hard!) and kept my guard up - and him tied short when dealing with him.

He has also improved dramatically since being out 24/7. Don't get me worng he still pulls faces but softens instantly when I stroke him - I think a lot of it is learnt behaviour and with him I got the distinct impression it was 'get them before they get me'.

I also used to stroke him firmly all over - he is aggravated by gentle stroking. This seemed to desensitise him and he has a massage quite regularly now too which he enjoys.

I know how hard it is - and I will be honest I was frightened for a while and it took me really pushing myself to get over it and work with him. Anyone that knows me will say I am a no nonsense, just get on with it kind of person but he threw me for a while (first and only horse to ever do this in over 30 years). If you can keep working with your lad and keeping yourself safe whilst doing it i think and hope you will find he will come right - but may be worth having a scope for ulcers as they wont help! Also look at his management and see if you can make any changes that may help settle and chill him out.

Hope that helps - there is light at the end of the teeth tunnel lol