The Brooke animal hospital causes suffering to animals

[AmyMay]

Thanks once again for your response The Brooke.

I think what concerned me most about the initial report by the OP and The Brookes subsequent response was that there was no mention about the actions of the vet allowing the mare to lie on a dirt floor with ruptured sutures, bleeding, and flies. Obviously I don't know whether this was the actual condition of the mare (as no photos have been provided) - but I'm assuming you've seen them and can either confirm or deny her condition.

Working in these conditions must be challenging - I agree, and I absolutely support your work.

I also agree that the complaint should have been made to you first - not on a public forum.

 

[touchstone]

Thankyou for that explanation, I hope The Brooke can continue to help many more animals in dire circumstances and I will continue to support them as I can.

 

[Merlin11]

I will certainly continue to support the Brooke. One unfortunate incident shouldn't invalidate all the valuable work that you undoubtedly do across the world. It must be so difficult to work in these conditions and circumstances.

 

[Mithras]

There is no protocol set down in legislation governing complaints procedures by members of the public against charities. There is certainly no legal requirement for a charity to be consulted before a complaint is made against it. There is advisory guidance by the Charities Commission which implies that it may be helpful in a complaint against a charity which it may investigate, but it seems quite likely that this matter will not fall within those grounds.

Furthermore, I don't think that the OP was specifically making a complaint against the charity involved, but raising awareness of an incident which she personally witnessed which concerned her, in the best way that she could think of.
In other words, her concerns were about the way that the circumstances in which the horse died, which just happened to be under the ambit of the Brooke.

Charities are in the public eye by their very nature, and will be open to recieving useful information from a variety of sources. I personally cannot see any problem in recieving such information on a public forum. I don't think the issue here is the way in which the complaint was made, but the subjective content of the matter.

I think there is an awareness that things are done with animals in countries such as Egypt in a way that would not be acceptable in the UK. No doubt the Brooke's vets are more accustomed than the OP to working in this environment. The question is where the line is drawn between working with the locals and supporting what amounts to unacceptable treatment? Excuse me if I am misinterpreting this, but this would seem to be where the OP's concern, and that of some others, lies.

 

[rhino]

Furthermore, I don't think that the OP was specifically making a complaint against the charity involved.

Was the title of the thread not a giveaway? Or the continual mention of how much money they received compared to the other charity competitor the OP champions and other uncorroborated attempts to discredit the charity?

Obviously I interpreted it rather differently from you.

 

[Mithras]

Was the title of the thread not a giveaway Or the continual mention of how much money they received compared to the other charity competitor the OP champions

Is there an objection to more than one charity being involved in a particular area?

I see absolutely no reason whatsoever why the OP should not post her concerns on a public forum.

 

[AmyMay]

I absolutely saw the OP as a complaint.

 

[Ladydragon]

Furthermore, I don't think that the OP was specifically making a complaint against the charity involved, but raising awareness of an incident which she personally witnessed which concerned her, in the best way that she could think of.
In other words, her concerns were about the way that the circumstances in which the horse died, which just happened to be under the ambit of the Brooke.

"The Brooke Hospital for horses according to its year end balance sheet had a record year in 2010/11. Fundraising income grew to 14.8m. They had record breaking legacies of £5,871.000. Their President is The Duchess of Cornwall, and two of their Patrons include Sir Peter O'Sullivan and Captain Richard Waygood."

"The Brooke is a very well known charity in the equestrian world, however if you knew what was going on at the charity, and the poor level of care, I am sure you would give your hard earned money elsewhere."

"This Charity is corrupt to the core,... "

We obviously interpret things differently if you think the OP was highlighting a welfare concern about *an* incident that 'just happened to be' The Brook...

 

[rhino]

Is there an objection to more than one charity being involved in a particular area?

I see absolutely no reason whatsoever why the OP should not post her concerns on a public forum.

No, I already support another charity working in the same area already

You don't? Despite the fact that several people have said they will stop donating on the back of the OP, and at least one is not going to donate to any horse charity at all? I don't think it acceptable in any way to denigrate the name of a charity without having the common decency to contact them first.

And despite the fact that 'naming and shaming' is not allowed on here under the t&c's?

 

[touchstone]

Is there an objection to more than one charity being involved in a particular area?

I see absolutely no reason whatsoever why the OP should not post her concerns on a public forum.

Posting concerns on a public forum would have been better done after contacting The Brooke and at least allowing them to respond, not before from politeness if nothing else. We aren't allowed to discuss a few things on here such as dealers, certain rescues etc. because of the damage it could cause and the actions that could be taken by the dealers etc. It's no different to the damage that could be inflicted on a charity that relies on public support due to somebody bad mouthing them.

 

[Freddie19]

No, I already support another charity working in the same area already

You don't? Despite the fact that several people have said they will stop donating on the back of the OP, and at least one is not going to donate to any horse charity at all? I don't think it acceptable in any way to denigrate the name of a charity without having the common decency to contact them first.

And despite the fact that 'naming and shaming' is not allowed on here under the t&c's?

I agree with you. The original poster did indeed name and shame the Brooke...they posted on a forum, which, I would imagine is probably one the most read forums, without, as I understand it, contacting the Brooke first. This is the reason I emailed the Brooke immediately. If as you say naming and shaming is not allowed under the t&c's, why was this thread allowed to continue and build into a (as is happening more and more on here) nasty conversation.

 

[Ladydragon]

And despite the fact that 'naming and shaming' is not allowed on here under the t&c's?

I'm still surprised it has been left... Or that the OP wasn't severely clipped to limit to the actual case/complaint/concern in question rather than a generalised slur on the charity as a whole...

 

[AmyMay]

It may well be that The Brooke are happy for the post to stay for the moment - hence its lack of removal.

 

[cornbrodolly]

I am another who will continue to support the Brooke. One incident must not undermine their good work in difficult circumstances across the world.
I have been to Egypt and Jordan , and surely we should be helping all we can to help hotrses in these regions and throughout the world, and not slagging off the brooke after 1 incident?

 

[Mypinkpony]

I too support Brooke and will continue to do so despite this post. As many of said one or two sad stories does not take away the thousands of lives they save. I think think everyone should look at the good they do and have done.

Although i do support the OP in bringing this particular story to light and hopefully having a full investigation into it. Whilst the brooke may be a great charity it does not mean the occasional 'bad apple' (possibly the vet in this case) can not end up working within the organisation and not providing the high care that the brooke expect. I think it is very important that this issue is further investigated and as others say a phone call to this particular man is not enough, if he is dropping standards of care he will not be admitting it over a phone call. Hopefully the OP photos will prove vital in this case.

 

[Achinghips]

Thanks once again for your response The Brooke.

....what concerned me most about the initial report by the OP and The Brookes subsequent response was that there was no mention about the actions of the vet allowing the mare to lie on a dirt floor with ruptured sutures, bleeding, and flies. Obviously I don't know whether this was the actual condition of the mare (as no photos have been provided) - but I'm assuming you've seen them and can either confirm or deny her condition.

SO what about this, Brooke? Your response does not fulfil the requirements of addressing this detail of the issue raised? Is this how your experienced veterinary staff treated this particular horse?

 

[Keen]

No, I already support another charity working in the same area already

You don't? Despite the fact that several people have said they will stop donating on the back of the OP, and at least one is not going to donate to any horse charity at all? I don't think it acceptable in any way to denigrate the name of a charity without having the common decency to contact them first.

And despite the fact that 'naming and shaming' is not allowed on here under the t&c's?

What she said.



And my own own opinion, for what it is worth:

I know this forum is as mad as a box of frogs, but this thread is the maddest I have seen here. There is no question of me stopping my donation to The Brooke. Spare a moments thought for the people they help:

http://www.thebrooke.org/our-work/stories/livelihoods

If you are looking for an excuse to not put your hand in your pocket, fine, but for me I am fully aware that by having the kind of income that allows me to ride - or for that matter have a computer and post about it - means I've already won life's lottery. I want agencies to be willing to put themselves in the firing line, reach out, and make changes. Finally, I can't actually see why the centre's strategy (give the animal a short amount of time and see) was an unreasonable one. It is very sad to see this thread on the front page of HHO.


Just seen this:

I think the OP is quite right to question the Brooke TBH. Money is sent to them and who really knows where its going. We sit here in our comfortable world, a world away from this charity. We just expect money to go into the aid of animals but...........does it?

Grrr.... FFS

 

[touchstone]

SO what about this, Brooke? Your response does not fulfil the requirements of addressing this detail of the issue raised? Is this how your experienced veterinary staff treated this particular horse?

I think to be honest that they have addressed this in the treatment the horse received; being given pain relief and a quiet place is still better than being left on the street. There is still no evidence to prove otherwise, I think that perhaps the OP has been shocked at seeing a case that The Brooke must deal with on a daily basis, they aren't in the uk with the best facilities etc and have to cope with what they've got.

That horse is dead and gone now and I think we should be focusing on helping those that need it.

 

[rhino]

SO what about this, Brooke? Your response does not fulfil the requirements of addressing this detail of the issue raised? Is this how your experienced veterinary staff treated this particular horse?

Yes, what about it? Have you actually bothered to contact them and ask the question for yourself as the Brooke have repeatedly asked anyone with any concerns to do?

Or does your level of concern merely consist of posting on a forum?

 

[ester]

I think Rhino was asking a valid question actually..

 

[CatStew]

I find Rhino to be one of the most level headed, sensible and polite members of this forum tbh. I have no idea what was posted to make you feel this way, but certainly nothing that I can see from Rhino on this thread has been bullying

I agree with this 100%, I don't post on here very often, but I do follow it and read it a lot and I always find Rhino's advice/comments very interesting and sensible.

 

[FionaM12]

I find Rhino to be one of the most level headed, sensible and polite members of this forum tbh. I have no idea what was posted to make you feel this way, but certainly nothing that I can see from Rhino on this thread has been bullying

I agree with this. When I came here last summer, a new horse owner deperately needing advice, Rhino was one of the kindest and most helpful people. She even sent me (an anonymous stranger) a pm offering to lend a me book. An act of generousity I won't forget.

And yes Rhino, I still have the book and will be returning it soon. It's been very helpful.

 

[JFTDWS]

I agree with this. When I came here last summer, a new horse owner deperately needing advice, Rhino was one of the kindest and most helpful people. She even sent me (an anonymous stranger) a pm offering to lend a me book. An act of generousity I won't forget.

And yes Rhino, I still have the book and will be returning it soon. It's been very helpful.

You're not the only one - I have one of rhino's books about 2 feet away (haven't got very far with it yet though useless!). AND she sent me haribo for my birthday with the book

 

[Wagtail]

Come on people. Leave AHs alone. Whilst I agree that Rhino is not a bully and that her manner is simply very assertive and occasionally abrupt, if AHs finds her unpleasant, then obviously that is genuinely how she views her. We are all free to interpret others mannerisms in the way that we find them.

 

[rhino]

And yes Rhino, I still have the book and will be returning it soon. It's been very helpful.

Don't bother my dear, I found another copy in the same charity shop a week or two ago

And please could we keep this thread on topic if possible, I still feel it is an important issue to be discussed. FWIW I haven't dealt with the Brooke before but have been in contact with them since the OP was first posted. I am not willing to cross post emails etc withough express permission but personally think they are dealing with it as well as they can

 

[Always Henesy]

Well crikey, I think the above speaks volumes about your own social skills and your argument has disolved along with this deeply unpleasant post. I have seen no post from Rhino that was in any way bullying, she has voiced her opinion in a fair and literate manner. Big mistake Achinghips. Sorry.

Erm yep ditto this....

 

[Goldenstar]

Come on people. Leave AHs alone. Whilst I agree that Rhino is not a bully and that her manner is simply very assertive and occasionally abrupt, if AHs finds her unpleasant, then obviously that is genuinely how she views her. We are all free to interpret others mannerisms in the way that we find them.

So can't we comment on what we consider bad behaviour IMO AH's took the debate away from the issue and into the personal not on and while I don't think for a nano second it would be possible to bully Rhino that's how bulling starts.

 

[Wagtail]

So can't we comment on what we consider bad behaviour IMO AH's took the debate away from the issue and into the personal not on and while I don't think for a nano second it would be possible to bully Rhino that's how bulling starts.

I am sure Rhino is perfectly able to defend herself. How many people need to jump on someone for something they perceive as wrong? That is where this place gets a pack mentality. FTR I actually am on Rhino's side in this argument re the Brooke.

 

[Goldenstar]

I am sure Rhino is perfectly able to defend herself. How many people need to jump on someone for something they perceive as wrong? That is where this place gets a pack mentality. FTR I actually am on Rhino's side in this argument re the Brooke.

Wagtail I stared to type as soon as I read it no one had replyed a pack is not the same thing as several people reading a comment and thinking that's not on, I am sure Rhino can defend herself I I did Not perceive it was wrong I THINK it was wrong I have a right to comment and would do so again.

 

[FionaM12]

I am sure Rhino is perfectly able to defend herself. How many people need to jump on someone for something they perceive as wrong?

When I hear or see someone I know being insulted, it is usually my reaction to defend them. Whether it's a friend or a colleague I have always done this. I don't pass by on the other side, even though they may be able to defend themselves. I consider this correct behaviour and at my age am not likely to change my mind.