The Brooke animal hospital causes suffering to animals
- Thread starter stormalong
- Start date
AMH
Well-Known Member
And I thought we were actually getting some reasoned debate going...
ChesnutsRoasting
Well-Known Member
I apologise.
But, your objection to being included in an email regarding this post could be construed as arrogant. Was what you previously stated really that important and enough to cause The Brooke to take note? No, mine neither, so don't sweat it and demand people apologise to you.
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
I apologise.
But, your objection to being included in an email regarding this post could be construed as arrogant. Was what you previously stated really that important and enough to cause The Brooke to take note? No, mine neither, so don't sweat it and demand people apologise to you.
Why arrogant its not arrogant not to want others to attribute views to you outside the forum that you do not hold . I thought it was good AH's took the trouble to email with their view but honestly I do not hold her / his view.
ChesnutsRoasting
Well-Known Member
Like I say, you post something on a forum it can be included in anything, email, blog, other forums etc., hence why I suggested you either have to be 100% in what you post or not be bothered if a stranger uses your posts in their own interests.
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
Like I say, you post something on a forum it can be included in anything, email, blog, other forums etc., hence why I suggested you either have to be 100% in what you post or not be bothered if a stranger uses your posts in their own interests.
I was 100per cent with my posts it was being lumped in with those I profoundly disagree with I did not like . If we followed your view to the end you could never post on a thread where you disagreed with the OP.
Thinking about it some might like this.
I should also have said thank you for your apology which I happily accept.
amandat
Active Member
are you having a laugh ?? from what i've been reading there are plenty on here in denial that anything may have been 'amiss' on this particular day, (with a charity that must be good because they donate to it) they really don't care about the state the poor horse was in.
Whats been going on for the last amount of pages isn't a debate in any meaning of the word !!!
rhino
Well-Known Member
That is absolutely not true. I just don't necessarily believe anything I read on an anonymous internet forum. The OP is saying things that don't match up, and she is refusing to answer very straightforward questions. The Brooke have answered every question put to them so far.
Don't mistake denial for wanting proof, or for the OP to follow through a complaint.
And I for one have never knowingly donated to The Brooke.
Mithras
Well-Known Member
You are hardly comparing like with like. The OP has never claimed to be anything other than a concerned member of the public. She is not employed as a PR director of a charity, nor a charities investigator, nor, I should think (since she has referred to having to leave for work), someone with endless time on her hands to satisfy a handful of people who do not want their mindset disrupted by conflicting evidence that things may not necessarily be as they want to see it on HHO.
As far as I see it, the duty rests upon the charity to be seen to be doing the right thing, rather than a concerned member of the public to put endless efforts in ensuring that they are doing so.
The OP seems to have answered all reasonable questions. The Brooke's answers have been general and placatory, and I find them incomplete and lacking specification.
I wonder why you don't put such searching and increasingly esoteric, questions to the Brooke, rather than to the OP, if you are indeed more concerned about the welfare of equines rather than the preservation of a charity's reputation.
The OP isn't raising millions of pounds in public funding, nor benefitting from charities tax relief, nor subject to the same rules on accountability as a charity after all...
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amandat
Active Member
OMG i'm 'baffled' that you're 'baffled' .... the poor horse came round from sedation after having her legs stitched & the vet was sitting at a desk .. SHE burst her stitches & fell off the mat she was on while "A vet sitting at a desk" sat at a desk !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
I am concerned about the welfare of equines and I have no connection at all to the Brooke I think I went to some fund raisers for them with a friend some years ago .
I am concerned that the valuable work that the Brooke does to easy the life of working horses might be affected by this this charity works on the ground in Afganistan You can't get closer to the coal face than that.
I don't want the Brooke to waste time answering an email from me I could like however to see some evidence from OP about her allegation they are " corrupt to the core ".
rhino
Well-Known Member
I have asked, and received answers from the Brooke, thanks. Simple fact is charities can't continue to help with welfare if people aren't donating money... and the result of this thread is likely to decrease donations to the charity in question.
It is a sad day when someone can anonymously post such an inflammatory thread yet others are criticised for questioning it. Anyone can say anything on here, and I am under no compulsion to accept it all as truthful.
Mithras
Well-Known Member
I would have thought that it would be obvious that the reasonable person would not have endless time at their disposal to send "evidence" by personal message to each and every individual that posts it on HHO, particularly those who seem to request more and more information with each reasonable response that is given.
As I say, it is not the OP who is running a charity, and it is not she who is subject to the rules governing charities.
It is perfectly reasonable for a member of the public to question a charity's activites in public, and indeed there are many instances where this has been proven to be life saving for equines, including on HHO in the past.
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
She made the allegation on a public forum I have no wish for a personal message from OP. OP has not given any response to requests to tell us why the Brooke is corrupt to the core so why she would think we would help expose it I don't know.
I have never said OP had no right to make the post its perfectly reasonable for her to do so but I don't agree with her point of view.
honetpot
Well-Known Member
Can I ask what you wanted the vet to do?
If as I understand it the animal was seriously injured and the owner did not want it PTS with limited resources what do you do? Clean it up, give it pain relief and wait and see?
Does the vet have to stand over it to see its condition? Do you want him to give IV fluilds, anti-biotics, do a full blood count, when its like as not going to die. Then when it trys to stand up, do you get your self kicked trying to do what?
If it had been my horse I would want it PTS but the owner would be more concerned about how he was going to make a living and feed his family and probabely if it had been a child and the family could not afford treatment the care might not be construed as being much better.
We give money to these charities and we are sold an image, you see lots of ads on TV which appeal to our 'arh' side, Oxfam, Save the children,NSPC RSPCA I do not think this is right but I am not naive enough to beleave the ads,money is limited and hard choices have to be made and I think 'Animal Hospital',has a lot to answer for. Not every kitten will live folks.
Things happen overhere we do not approve of,
http://horsegossip.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=125433&page=1
and thats on our doorstep
If as I understand it the animal was seriously injured and the owner did not want it PTS with limited resources what do you do? Clean it up, give it pain relief and wait and see?
Does the vet have to stand over it to see its condition? Do you want him to give IV fluilds, anti-biotics, do a full blood count, when its like as not going to die. Then when it trys to stand up, do you get your self kicked trying to do what?
If it had been my horse I would want it PTS but the owner would be more concerned about how he was going to make a living and feed his family and probabely if it had been a child and the family could not afford treatment the care might not be construed as being much better.
We give money to these charities and we are sold an image, you see lots of ads on TV which appeal to our 'arh' side, Oxfam, Save the children,NSPC RSPCA I do not think this is right but I am not naive enough to beleave the ads,money is limited and hard choices have to be made and I think 'Animal Hospital',has a lot to answer for. Not every kitten will live folks.
Things happen overhere we do not approve of,
http://horsegossip.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=125433&page=1
and thats on our doorstep
AMH
Well-Known Member
from what i've been reading there are plenty on here in denial that anything may have been 'amiss' on this particular day, (with a charity that must be good because they donate to it) they really don't care about the state the poor horse was in.
Whats been going on for the last amount of pages isn't a debate in any meaning of the word !!!
I'd like to make it clear that I have never donated to the Brooke, nor supported them in any way, financially or otherwise.
As others have mentioned, I don't think it's right that someone can accuse a charity(or anyone else for that matter) of corruption without substantiated proof.
Just as others have chosen not to believe that the charity has investigated the circumstances surrounding this issue, I choose to be sceptical of a report which I feel, given what I've read, lacks credibility.
I don't doubt that the OP saw what she says she saw, but I'm afraid I do call into question her interpretation of the events - and my feelings are reinforced by her mention of another charity and her attempt to compare and contrast levels of care provided. She's asked us to help her to 'expose' the Brooke, but I'm not sure what for, since this is only once incident, and she still hasn't answered people's questions as to why she feels they are 'corrupt'.
There is the potential that her allegations could prevent people from donating to the Brooke and that concerns me when I feel the scepticism I do.
Moomin1
Well-Known Member
OMG the vet was SITTING AT A DESK when the horse came around from sedation?!!! Shocking behaviour!
Has it ever occured to anybody that the OP may well have not mentioned to the vet that the stitches were burst, or the vet merely did not understand the OP when she alledgedly told him?! Maybe unlikely, but to take word from a stranger on a forum who none of us know is pretty ridiculous. I remain objective in this case and would only be convinced if a proper external investigation were to take place and they were found to be negligent in their practices. I for one, deal with allegations every single day which sound horrendous and cut and dried evidentially - until I make further enquiries - and a very high percentage of those allegations turn out to be false/incorrect/malicious, and extremely exaggerated. The odd case or two, of course, doesn't, and those cases are dealt with appropriately. The amount of times I have had people going crazy and calling me all names under the sun because I have not acted the way they wish or believe should act in response to their 'horrendous' allegation which is in fact exaggerated and not that bad at all, is uncountable!
As a matter of fact, the majority of cases where REAL problems have occurred and very serious cases have resulted, I have found the complainant has actually not made a song and dance about it - and have been very discrete and concise in their complaint. The ones that shout and holler about it to the whole world are usually the ones who are telling porky pies!
I think it's disgusting that this thread could have caused untold damage to a charity which may in fact have acted to the best of their abilities to make that horse comfortable, yet the word of an anonymous stranger may be the undoing of them in the future.
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Hells Bells
Well-Known Member
Why baffled? It's a fair point IMO. Vet hasn't done anything wrong by sitting at his desk.
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amandat
Active Member
Well IMO if you don't agree with what the OP has stated why not just make your point & then leave it .... the way this thread has gone is a bit odd. A lady & her husband were on holiday & they happened upon a bit of a gruesome site. Some posts on here have been horrible, i don't want to see the pics that were taken but others were demanding them to be PM'd to them - others are demanding the OP answers their questions ... WHY ???? IMO it's the charity that needs to be answering questions. They have not mentioned why the horse wasn't being monitored or why the vet would lie to people that had allowed access to the hospital, i.e visitors were allowed in to view & told a very poorly horse would be fine. Do they believe people can just be fobbed off & there will be no come back to them.
Surely a charity has to be accountable for what they are doing with the money donated to them, if something is wrong on one day they need to rectify the problem & show that to their donators or it will be their own fault they are losing out.
Surely a charity has to be accountable for what they are doing with the money donated to them, if something is wrong on one day they need to rectify the problem & show that to their donators or it will be their own fault they are losing out.
rhino
Well-Known Member
The charity has repeatedly answered questions on this thread, and respond quickly to any emails. If they didn't want to be accountable they could have had this thread deleted very quickly. They have chosen to let it run.
Why do people want to see photos or ask questions? Because we would like to know the truth perhaps?
One persons rantings on the internet does not the truth make.
Hells Bells
Well-Known Member
And I think it has to be honest. I apologise if I am wrong.
I don't disagree with you regarding the way some people have spoken to the OP, I think you are completely right in that respect.
As for being accountable, I believe they are very much. This thread has done more than enough damage I would imagine. But I for one will not be stopping my donations...if anything I will increase them.
Moomin1
Well-Known Member
You're right - it's the charity that should be answering the questions - not people on a public forum - which is exactly why OP shouldn't have potentially slandered them on HHO with only her 'opinions' and views on what she saw in a moment of time, and asked for everyone to help expose them.
Like I keep saying, why don't people get off their jacksies and bump up a bit of cash to pay for an external investigation?! Now that would be proactive for animal welfare, rather than sitting on a forum moaning.
Mithras
Well-Known Member
Why shoot the messenger? Why should a charity not be held accountable for its actions in public, when it is supported by the taxpayer in the form of incredibly generous tax breaks?
I think you mean libel, not slander, and slander cases are brought privately and are relevant only on their own facts once a court weighs up the evidence (and veracity - truth - is a complete defence).
I do donate to equine charities in Egypt.
I think this thread is going round in circles now, and also that its rather odd in places.
Mithras
Well-Known Member
Well, certainly the responses by the Brooke have done nothing to shed light on it either.
Dirtymare
Well-Known Member
Very well said.
Dobiegirl
Well-Known Member
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/645
This is a petition for an ombudsman for charities who havnt addressed complaints.
This is a petition for an ombudsman for charities who havnt addressed complaints.
Patterdale
Well-Known Member
The Brooke HAVE addressed the complaint several times now, twice on here and many more in private emails.
rhino
Well-Known Member
Good idea
However, The Brooke have addressed the complaint on here, and if the OP is not satisfied they have a readily available complaints procedure which I have highlighted a number of times. The OP refuses to make clear whether she is serious in following a complaint through instead of merely making a fuss on anonymous internet forums.
Patterdale
Well-Known Member
Short of digging up said horse and testing what can they do? And as we all know that will lead to some kind of zombie horse pandemic, which I for one want no part of.
This threads getting silly now.
This threads getting silly now.
Mithras
Well-Known Member
I don't understand the constant demands for secrecy, for silencing the OP, and now further references to secret, private messges by the charity, when in public all they have said has been very general and of little use.
Particulary when the regulatory regime for charities is all about openness, accountability and clarity. None of this seems right somehow.
Some people appear to be seriously suggesting that people should be discouraged from speaking out in public against charities, whether or not they may be right, whether or not they might have witnessed one instance that should be dealt with, whether or not the regulatory regime encourges them to do so, just in case the charity might suffer.
So, remind me again why this particular charity was set up? And how it is funded?