The climate & impact on horsekeeping

tallyho!

tallyho!

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I was having a discussion about this with various friends with regard to animal husbandry in general and I can't help but see a bleak outlook.

Let's say the change in climate we are all experiencing now continues into the future, which it will, how might this change our current practices?

Already, many crops are failing, animals are failing to thrive due to disease and food for them (and ourselves) is going to become increasingly expensive and hard to come by.

How do you see the future? What has to change if we are to cope and survive in an increasingly wet and mild/cold and dry climate? What will we have to do to thrive at the constant mercy of the Polar & Tropical Jet Flows which the UK happens to be smack bang in the middle of?

Will the equestrian market suffer as less and less people are able to provide suitable conditions and adequate forage or manage vet bills for diseases related to the weather?

Sorry to bring up such a bleak subject but the reality is, the Jet Stream and the melting of the polar ice caps WILL bring about climate change for the UK and it's not going to be siestas and fiestas! Instead, more flooding and more drought. It will be interesting to see if anyone has any ideas on future land management and possible solutions e.g. reforestation?
 
The first thing will be the necessity for the Water Companies to go back to keeping culverts clear, just as they used to before they were privatised, which will help drainage, then perhaps they could bring back into use the resevoirs which have been decommissioned.
And if building on flood-planes was stopped, or if the developers had to make drainage/flood protection a priority, some of the problems would be averted.
 
I worked out very quickly when we bought our own place that you need to have a stable for every horse you have on the place that you can't ever assume you can keep them out .
I really wish I had put in all weather turnout pens when I built the yard and definatly put them in if I ever built a yard again.
As for the future keeping horses will keep getting more expensive verses what it was not good for the horses looking for homes in an oversupplied market.
I wish I had a larger storage barn to allow more food and bedding storage but at my age it's not worth spending more on the yard .
But we are going to spend money in the spring redoing the drains in the bottom half of the yard to get water away quicker .
Thank god we reroofed the stables this summer they where getting a bit tired that was a good call as was the drainage work we did after the flash flooding in the spring which I am sure saved the stables in bottom barn from getting flooded recently.
It doesn't make you feel cheerful does it.
 
I watched the programme the other night about our weather changes etc and wondered the same. I def would not want to be buying in any more horses just sercuring the 6 I have. It is worrying and can only see hay straw feed etc going up and up and forcing people out of ownership but into what kind of Market would the horses go? Hopefully I would never find myself in that position but the way jobs are at the mo I don't think anybody can feel safe 100%.
 
The old saying that the British Isles 'doesn't have a climate just weather' is I think very true. It can fluctuate wildly, several years wet, some years dry, sometimes very cold sometimes very warm. There is no guarantee that next year will be the same as this one, could be very different. Just a few hundred years ago the country was in the grip of deep cold with the Thames frozen & people partying on it. Not long ago really in the scheme of things. I think we have to just be prepared as much for the hosepipe ban as floods, anything goes always has,always will.:)
 
TMG , I have reduced to four by not replacing one I lost this time last year and that kept my costs stable for this year if something happened to an other I think I would do the same again .
 
Pearlsacarolsinger said:
The first thing will be the necessity for the Water Companies to go back to keeping culverts clear, just as they used to before they were privatised, which will help drainage, then perhaps they could bring back into use the resevoirs which have been decommissioned.
And if building on flood-planes was stopped, or if the developers had to make drainage/flood protection a priority, some of the problems would be averted.
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If only the big companies had this sort of common sense. I also think all the paved over gardens have a big impact on drainage in residential areas.

I have never been able to make sense of climate change. If you look back over the decades there are bad winters, hot summers etc. Last winter was exceptionally dry and mild. In February 2012 our fields were so dry the cattle and horses were living out, we then went on to have a drought in the spring. Nature then put herself right and put enough rain down to balance the books - sadly she has forgotten to turn the tap off yet ! This has resulted in a poor harvest and massive problems with autumn planting.

The media has a lot to account for, turn on the TV and all you hear is 'the wettest, coldest, since records began etc, they make a meal out of the weather. In other countries extreme weather is catered for by sensible governments who plan and implement services correctly, yet in the UK 2 inches of snow cripples the airports and clears the supermarket shelves.

Nature will right herself again, probably with a very cold period, Spring will come and seasonal food production will continue. The supermarkets will keep hiking the prices whilst they continue to push the farm gate price down.

I think the cost of keeping a horse or two will be beyond many people in the not too distant future for many reasons. The land available to keep them on is diminishing, sourcing hay and feed at an affordable rate will be a problem, hacking is becoming dangerous in some parts of the UK. Plus, and probably the most relevant, is the lack of employment for young people entering the job market now and in the future. These young people have no hope of buying a home let alone a horse. I am 2/3rds through my stay on earth and I really don't think I would want to be a child again as I do wonder what the future holds for children born now.

It won't be the climate that has the biggest impact on horsekeeping or the young people growing up now in the world, it will be the governments who cannot plan and work towards a sustainable future.

Blimey, having read that back, what a load of doom and gloom ! anyway I am going to extract my horse from it's swamp and go for a hack before my world implodes !
 
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One good way of dealing with constant wet ground is to roll several tons of road sub-base into gate ways and also an area put aside to make a 'playground'. We did this at our last house and it worked very well. We put grass seed down on the sub-base (with a bit of fertiliser) and a covering of grass soon established itself which meant that there was something to nibble but there was no mud.

This only works with sensible horses and ponies though as you wouldn't want something that galloped around madly on this surface. It suited our native ponies very well as the grass wasn't rich enough to give them laminitis. I have also seen hardcore rolled in then grass grown on top but you have to watch out for dangerous bricks coming to the surface.
 
There's some truth in what has been said about other countries coping well... why is then that we can't? It is laughable... I was catching a train to Birmingham a few weeks ago and a connection got cancelled due to "adverse weather conditions"... it was frosty! Give me strength!

Thing is, it's easy to say yes it's always been, so it will always be, but things can be improved. Why must people suffer each cycle exactly as the last? Is it because we are all happy to accept that this is just the way it is? We have a terrible infrastructure and most people are apathetic about urging the govt to step up about drainage, reservoirs etc.

I guess we all think it's important that our news covers stories about plebs, politicians and dead molesters more than what to do about flooding, food prices and jobs.

Anyway, glad to hear positive ideas about all-weather turnouts, investing in land drainage, laws about building locations e.g. not the Severn Basin (how did that EVER get permission??).
 
Don't get me started, this topic makes me so angry. While other countries just get on with weather changes our country grinds to a panicked halt. I get the train to work, if it's not flooding or snow causing them to get cancelled, during the heatwave they got cancelled because THE HEAT MADE THE TRACKS EXPAND. WHAT?!?!?!?!
 
How big an area would you need per pony for 14.2 and under for an all weather 24/7 turnout with hay do we think?

And what surface would be cheapest, longest lasting and least maintenance.

Or would a large shed I could muck out with (existing) tractor be a better investment.
 
I was thinking about a large shed for all our girls just last week. They get on well, so would just be like turning the, out in the paddock.

Lots of countries and dare I say I read that someone here kept them in a large barn. This would probably be my ideal situation. A large airy dry shed where they could move and lark about and it would still be easy to skip out.
 
I think it will become increasingly expensive to keep horses in the future, and conditions will perhaps get even more unpleasant, for them and for us who look after them. This is one of the reasons why I stopped breeding 20 years ago, and why the horses I have now will not be replaced as they age and die. There are too many horses now, I think horse ownership will decline as the economic situation will not pick up any time soon and jobs become scarcer. Gloomy.
 
tallyhohoho! said:
Thing is, it's easy to say yes it's always been, so it will always be, but things can be improved. Why must people suffer each cycle exactly as the last? Is it because we are all happy to accept that this is just the way it is? We have a terrible infrastructure and most people are apathetic about urging the govt to step up about drainage, reservoirs etc.
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Unfortunately the infra-structure of this country was largely taken out of the hands of the government several decades ago when all except the road system was privatised. We used to have one of the best rail systems in the world but now that the profits go to, largely foreign, shareholders it has been allowed to sink into decline. The old waterboards looked after the reservoirs and made sure that moorland run-off flowed into them. but now their profits go to their shareholders instead of back into the watersystem. And yes there was a certain amount of wastage of money as there was something of a feeling that the money would never run out but atleast some of it went on improvements, unlike now.

Maybe as far as horses are concerned we will get back to keeping horses with what they NEED, rather than all the fancy stuff that clever marketing has made the inexperienced owner want. This would make them far more affordable, imo.
 
Pearl, I completely understand. It does all seem futile when you put it like that. Thing is, I understand why privatisation was necessary but it was a bad idea.

Even with keeping horses simply as you describe, it will still be hard for some to cope with constant rain. Even the bog ponies can't stand this much dampness.

I was just looking for ideas that help people cope with the day to day of what they have already. How can we improve drainage locally I.e. in our fields? Do we lay areas of hardcore and sacrifice grassland? This could be worse as someone said, water runoff from these areas is disastrous further down. Could planting trees be an idea so stop slides and absorb some of the water?

We can't change the way the water board is run or stop people breeding horses, but surely there are ways and means of improving our own land.

I think grains will be too expensive for some owners and maybe forage only diets will be what can be afforded and we will revert to that, better for the horses anyway.
 
I think if it stays very wet then very dry more land will be used for crops as the prices will go up and horse owners are going to have to adapt to keeping horses on less land and probably with less or no turnout depending on the time of year. will possibly mean keeping horses in small areas with what would normally be a grazing field being used for hay or doing as the continentals do and having horses in big barns in winter. like someone above I think a lot of the lesser flooding could be reduced by not having so many areas including gardens paved or concreted but reusing old reservoirs would redirect a lot of what would otherwise flood and would also stop the worries of insufficient water in the dry times. other than that the uk is not exactly known for common sense when it comes to cold and snow and if it did as abroad and prepared the roads before bad weather hit and got the snowploughs and or gritters out pretty much round the clock when needed the roads would be a lot more passable but hey its winter and nobody in the relevant departments expects cold and snow :D
 
tallyhohoho! said:
Pearl, I completely understand. It does all seem futile when you put it like that. Thing is, I understand why privatisation was necessary but it was a bad idea.


Well please enlighten me, as I've never understood it. except that it was a good money-making scheme for the already rich and their cronies in government who were hoping for jobs as company execs after leaving parliament.

I think grains will be too expensive for some owners and maybe forage only diets will be what can be afforded and we will revert to that, better for the horses anyway.
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Well that could only be a good thing IMO.

We are at the top of a hill over 1100ft above sea-level so our fields aren't too bad, although some of the local roads have turned into rivers as the water comes off the hillside in springs. For various reasons we have decided to plant hedging which should help to take up some of the water, although I have noticed this week that even the trees that we have (sycamores and elders) now have water standing at their bases.

Whilst I think that a cumulation of small things, such as NOT concreting over gardens to make parking spaces, can help the situation IMO there needs to be a change of attitude from Government (and not just this coalition) in order for there to be a real change for the better.


ETA, I'm not sure that we can justify morally the putting down of hard-standing which does not allow drainage of water, as that would be just compounding the problem. We are looking into different ways of surfacing our yard and gateways in order to allow drainage but lessen the mud, if at all possible.
 
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Regarding privatisation, thatcherites will have you believe it was needed because the country could not afford to keep everything in public hands. There was not enough money and so, privatising everything meant more money for the govt in tax. For labour it was the worst thing that could have happened. Shipyards shut down, coal mining stopped, no industry, local councils were set up and were run by pigs etc. Our rail networks are a shambles... roads blocked by lorries as local stations shut down and closed.

It would be good if we could subsidise everything again but it will never happen as the country can't afford it. Next to go will be the NHS. It's already being sold off little by little... There is no way the deficit will close as the cost of drugs rise and rise and the population goes the same way with less and less people paying tax. Where is all the money going to come from? The tycoons get richer and the people continue to suffer. Employing people is hard to do, setting up a business is nigh on impossible. The UK economy is supporting more and more of its own people and the Europeans too. It could never support a publicly funded infrastructure such as the water board.... Or could it???!!!
 
Pearlsacarolsinger said:
Well that could only be a good thing IMO.

We are at the top of a hill over 1100ft above sea-level so our fields aren't too bad, although some of the local roads have turned into rivers as the water comes off the hillside in springs. For various reasons we have decided to plant hedging which should help to take up some of the water, although I have noticed this week that even the trees that we have (sycamores and elders) now have water standing at their bases.

Whilst I think that a cumulation of small things, such as NOT concreting over gardens to make parking spaces, can help the situation IMO there needs to be a change of attitude from Government (and not just this coalition) in order for there to be a real change for the better.


ETA, I'm not sure that we can justify morally the putting down of hard-standing which does not allow drainage of water, as that would be just compounding the problem. We are looking into different ways of surfacing our yard and gateways in order to allow drainage but lessen the mud, if at all possible.
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Well draining hard standing is the answer. I guess we will have to look further afield for ideas on this.

Nearly everyone on our road has concreted or paved their gardens for parking space. The cul-de-sac often floods as the one drain it has can't take that much water.

Out friends had to move out of their house for a whole year as the flood backed up sewage out of their toilets and flooded the house with raw sewage!!!! This was due to council not maintaining drains...

The councils attitude of slashing and burning of budgets will only lead to more costs in compensation claims...
 
tallyhohoho! said:
I was thinking about a large shed for all our girls just last week. They get on well, so would just be like turning the, out in the paddock.

Lots of countries and dare I say I read that someone here kept them in a large barn. This would probably be my ideal situation. A large airy dry shed where they could move and lark about and it would still be easy to skip out.
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That's what I was thinking. Nicer for them too and it would be a handy shed for me lambing and calving and for machinery the rest of the year. I can get sawdust free from the saw mill near by so that could be used as a base as well. Turnout fine on frozen days but in this weather with them out 24/7 well it's not nice for them either.

Needs some thinking about but if funds allow that is what I fancy doing.
 
But it's not the 'councils attitute of slashing and burning'. This is being forced upon certain councils by the coalition government. I lived through the 80s ansd saw the manufacturing industries of my native county and many others, to say nothing of mining, being decimated for an ideology. IMO the worst thing that could ever have happened to this country was privatisation and it is happening again. I know more about education than anything else and can see before my eyes the privatisation of state education. Successive governments do not learn from the mistakes of those who went before them. PFI (private funding initiative) saw the likes of Jarvis attempting to make money out of state schools - which surely by definition must be non-profit making. jarvis over-stretched themselves and the LAs had to step in. Those schools are now working with a German company in my LA, which is attempting to make money out of thigs such as letting the schools out in the holidays/evenings/weekends. What is needed imo, is a complete rethink. What is the point of throwing good money after bad?
Anyway all that is somewhat off the point really but the water companies should not be allowed to take profits for their shareholders until they have made sure that drainage etc is fully paid for.
 
OH were only having the conversation this afternoon about how we will have our new place planned out when we move ( hopefully within 18mths) due to the weather being wetter.

We will have an indoor barn area that they can get to from the fields, a) save them hanging around the gateways, b) me not continually watching the weather worrying to get them in as they are charging around to get in. c)save the fields and they can mooch and choose what they want to do.
 
tallyhohoho! said:
I was thinking about a large shed for all our girls just last week. They get on well, so would just be like turning the, out in the paddock.

Lots of countries and dare I say I read that someone here kept them in a large barn. This would probably be my ideal situation. A large airy dry shed where they could move and lark about and it would still be easy to skip out.
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You would need a big shed if you didn't turn out at all.

I am using a cattle shed, well bedded with straw that is not skipped out, I just add more big bales on top as needed. The back doors are open and access to a wet field is possible. The horses then take it in turns to be in the shed/paddock in the day or overnight, they make their own choice to stay inside or go out. At the moment I put the yearlings in the shed during the day and the old mares in overnight. Hay is fed from the floor. The shed is in 24 hour use with horses going in and out in 2's on 12 hour shifts

It is interesting to watch what the horses get up to. The 2 yearlings spend most of their time inside if it's raining. If it's dry they go out and play. The old mares eat their hay and then go out regardless of the weather. All of the horses lie down and rest in the straw regardless of the time of day or the weather conditions. Even the yearlings who sleep all night in their stables put themselves to bed in the shed.

It's a set up that certainly works and I am most grateful to my dear friend for setting it up for me. The only caution I would advise is ensuring the horses put to this way of living all get on well, because it is very easy to have a weak one cornered in a barn and easily injured.
 
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Pearlsacarolsinger said:
But it's not the 'councils attitute of slashing and burning'. This is being forced upon certain councils by the coalition government. I lived through the 80s ansd saw the manufacturing industries of my native county and many others, to say nothing of mining, being decimated for an ideology. IMO the worst thing that could ever have happened to this country was privatisation and it is happening again. I know more about education than anything else and can see before my eyes the privatisation of state education. Successive governments do not learn from the mistakes of those who went before them. PFI (private funding initiative) saw the likes of Jarvis attempting to make money out of state schools - which surely by definition must be non-profit making. jarvis over-stretched themselves and the LAs had to step in. Those schools are now working with a German company in my LA, which is attempting to make money out of thigs such as letting the schools out in the holidays/evenings/weekends. What is needed imo, is a complete rethink. What is the point of throwing good money after bad?
Anyway all that is somewhat off the point really but the water companies should not be allowed to take profits for their shareholders until they have made sure that drainage etc is fully paid for.
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I work with the NHS and can completely sympathise. Yes I think councils have had it hard but they are not fighting for the people! Big brother says cut everything, council says ok instead saying "no way!" We elected our councillors to speak on behalf of us! Not to control us by closing schools, libraries, surgeries etc. I don't see enough people in communities fighting back! I go to meetings and its full of the same people month in month out arguing about the same old things. Everyone gets a newsletter, no one comes! It's down to the people at the end of the day. I get exasperated by my generation of thirty-something's spending time on the pub reliving youth than in the village hall listening to what's going on!! Sorry, personal rant there.... :D

I have complained about things that have pissed me off and seen results so it can be done....

Back to water boards, I think you are right, we need to put pressure on them somehow. What will it take I wonder... A classroom full of children to be swept into the rivers?
 
OP, I'm sure you're entitled to a personal rant or two, especially if you work in NHS.

The trouble is that if the targetted councils do say 'No way!' their gvmt funding will be cut. There is far too much party political shananigans going on. It is VERY interesting to look at a map of education funding and compare it to a map of Conservative constituencies. Somehow or other, those constituencies which are most unlikely to elect a conservative MP get the lowest funding, in general, under this gvmnt.
I agree that those concillors who do not agree with the way things are going should be making a stand and if necessary leaving their political parties and standing as Independent but too many of them are too used to their comfortable place in society to risk that. I do have some respect for those for are trying to do their best in a very difficult situation.
What really annoys me is that so many things are being changed by the back door and by the time every-one realises what is happening and how detrimental it is to society in general and to the future of our country, it will be too late. But never mind a few ultra rich people will have made even more money out of this mess.

Back to surfaces which allow water to drain through. I did look at some stuff for the yard which is used in children's soft play areas. It is also used in some parkland and apparently will withstand traffic/horseshoes. Unfortunately the cost was prohibitive to say the least - think 2nd mortgage or lottery win!
 
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