The climate & impact on horsekeeping

tallyhohoho! said:
I work with the NHS and can completely sympathise. Yes I think councils have had it hard but they are not fighting for the people! Big brother says cut everything, council says ok instead saying "no way!" We elected our councillors to speak on behalf of us! Not to control us by closing schools, libraries, surgeries etc. I don't see enough people in communities fighting back! I go to meetings and its full of the same people month in month out arguing about the same old things. Everyone gets a newsletter, no one comes! It's down to the people at the end of the day. I get exasperated by my generation of thirty-something's spending time on the pub reliving youth than in the village hall listening to what's going on!! Sorry, personal rant there.... :D

I have complained about things that have pissed me off and seen results so it can be done....

Back to water boards, I think you are right, we need to put pressure on them somehow. What will it take I wonder... A classroom full of children to be swept into the rivers?
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I think I must point out the whole of the population does not want to see more and more money spent by councils and the government I am more than happy to to fund my own care health what ever but so far we have had our pension partially apporiated by Gordon Brown and this lot continuing that progress and then they wonder why people don't save for old age.
I am sick of seeing councils wasting money our money, we need infractstructor spending in this country and we can do it well but don't seem to have the vision any more to plan coherently and in a long term way.
Yet meddling on a small scale is reaching frankly ludicrous proportions from where you put your bins to how many vegetables you eat.to using laws intended to protect the population against terrorism to snoop on people who councils think might be not following the rules on school catchments properly .
But hey ho it's best to keep cheerful if you can , by the way it's pouring again here no change there then.
 
Goldenstar said:
I think I must point out the whole of the population does not want to see more and more money spent by councils and the government age.
I am sick of seeing councils wasting money our money, we need infractstructor spending in this country and we can do it well but don't seem to have the vision any more to plan coherently and in a long term way.
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IMO it shouldn't be about spending more but about being smarter in our spending, not about cutting council services beyond their being feasible and DEFINITELY not about providing profits for foreign shareholders.
 
Pearlsacarolsinger said:
IMO it shouldn't be about spending more but about being smarter in our spending, not about cutting council services beyond their being feasible and DEFINITELY not about providing profits for foreign shareholders.
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But who decides what services councils provide and how ?
I worked in the public sector and the jaw dropping waste and stupidity was dispiriting I left my well paid stupendous pensioned ( far far better than you could ever hope for in the private sector ) job with a feeling of profound relief into a much less secure situation but was so much happier.
 
Some services have to be provided by law, others by gvt directive. I agree that there has been a great deal of money wasted in local gvt over the years with jobs being 'knitted', often again by gvt directive. I'm thinking particularly of education where, for example, 'consultants' were employed to tell other teachers how to teach, when the money would have been better spent actually putting them into schools to reduce class sizes and I'm sure that other sectors will have similar examples. However now the cuts are so severe in some councils that the services cannot be run effectively. And IMO allowing private companiees to step in is counter-productive as the councils have to 'buy-in' many of these services but the private companies take a profit out of what they are paid. That definitely seems wrong to me, I'm most unhappy about my council tax being used to provide a profit for private companies.
 
Pearlsacarolsinger said:
Some services have to be provided by law, others by gvt directive. I agree that there has been a great deal of money wasted in local gvt over the years with jobs being 'knitted', often again by gvt directive. I'm thinking particularly of education where, for example, 'consultants' were employed to tell other teachers how to teach, when the money would have been better spent actually putting them into schools to reduce class sizes and I'm sure that other sectors will have similar examples. However now the cuts are so severe in some councils that the services cannot be run effectively. And IMO allowing private companiees to step in is counter-productive as the councils have to 'buy-in' many of these services but the private companies take a profit out of what they are paid. That definitely seems wrong to me, I'm most unhappy about my council tax being used to provide a profit for private companies.
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I am unhappy about probally what about 80% of my tax is spent on from paying people to have children and do nothing to spending millions on translation services I could go on and on but I don't think economies benefit from too many people working for the state .
 
Excellent thread!
This is something I've been pondering about for a while. I don't think it can be denied that something is going on with our weather/climate at the moment - whether this is due to man's activity or is a natural phenomenon is another debate. However our weather is clearly becoming more extreme and chaotic - droughts in spring when you would expect high rainfall, floods in summer when it should be dry etc.

If these trends continue I do think it will have serious implications for horse keeping in this country -
The availability of forage and bedding will be a key factor. As agriculture becomes more marginal the 'luxury' of producing feed and bedding material for non essestial livestock such as horses may no longer be an option. If we start to move towards biomass combustion as an energy source we can wave goodbye to cheap straw and shavings for bedding for horses. Hay is already increasingly difficult to harvest successfully. Every summer we pray for a dry week to get the hay in - in the past if we got a typical west of scotland summer we could source hay from the east coast or england but now everywhere seems to be in the same boat.
Also horses are being kept in a lot more. A lot of yards don't allow winter turnout any more due to the fields being trashed. This puts extra pressure on fodder and bedding supplies.
(thankfully we are still allowed unlimited turnout at our place though a lot of people keep them in anyway)
Yards with indoors schools and all weather turnout pens are definitely the way forward - though you can expect to pay higher livery fees to benefit from this.
All told I can predict a lot of people being priced out of horse ownership and a lot of abandoned and neglected horses in future. Not much good news I'm afraid.

Sorry for the essay (and I haven't even got started on politics or planning!)
This would make a great dissertation subject I think.
 
tallyhohoho! said:
I work with the NHS and can completely sympathise. Yes I think councils have had it hard but they are not fighting for the people! Big brother says cut everything, council says ok instead saying "no way!" We elected our councillors to speak on behalf of us! Not to control us by closing schools, libraries, surgeries etc. I don't see enough people in communities fighting back! I go to meetings and its full of the same people month in month out arguing about the same old things. Everyone gets a newsletter, no one comes! It's down to the people at the end of the day. I get exasperated by my generation of thirty-something's spending time on the pub reliving youth than in the village hall listening to what's going on!! Sorry, personal rant there.... :D
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It pisses me off too!!! yes the councils and the health service dont fight for anyone but their own interests there isnt a money tree and funding comes from the tax paying private sector, see the councils quangos and health service with ever more admin bigger offices and telephone number salerys for the top dogs while the workers that provide front line services are sacked to keep the gravy train running!! makes my blood boil, it all needs proper cuts and a real shake up and proper busnesslike management not a load of guardian reading PC right on piss takers, more indians and less chiefs then we might get some where oh and the coilition are ***** but the last lot realy royaly screwed us by spending and wasteing money, god help us if Gromet and balls get in ........
 
LeneHorse said:
If these trends continue I do think it will have serious implications for horse keeping in this country -
The availability of forage and bedding will be a key factor. As agriculture becomes more marginal the 'luxury' of producing feed and bedding material for non essestial livestock such as horses may no longer be an option. If we start to move towards biomass combustion as an energy source we can wave goodbye to cheap straw and shavings for bedding for horses. Hay is already increasingly difficult to harvest successfully. Every summer we pray for a dry week to get the hay in - in the past if we got a typical west of scotland summer we could source hay from the east coast or england but now everywhere seems to be in the same boat.
Also horses are being kept in a lot more. A lot of yards don't allow winter turnout any more due to the fields being trashed. This puts extra pressure on fodder and bedding supplies.
(thankfully we are still allowed unlimited turnout at our place though a lot of people keep them in anyway)
Yards with indoors schools and all weather turnout pens are definitely the way forward - though you can expect to pay higher livery fees to benefit from this.
All told I can predict a lot of people being priced out of horse ownership and a lot of abandoned and neglected horses in future. Not much good news I'm afraid.
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Thanks Lenehorse for bringing us back on track!

Last winter all the horses were out 24/7. This year, we've had to keep in as there is just no grass. Any goodness the grass that's left has, is leached out by constant rain so everywhere you look is a brown mess and many lost weight rapidly in the autumn. So, it was a conscious decision for me to keep my filly in at night to eat something with some goodness in.

I think it's inevitable that unless we change management and husbandry, livestock production and horse keeping will decline as more and more farms turn to crop growing if they can. I have noticed many farms around here have started to grow Elephant Grass (Miscanthus) and my local feed merchants actually is selling it as biomass fuel.

Has anyone successfully changed from traditional management of pasture of sectioning paddocks to using this "paddock paradise" system?
 
POLLDARK said:
The old saying that the British Isles 'doesn't have a climate just weather' is I think very true. It can fluctuate wildly, several years wet, some years dry, sometimes very cold sometimes very warm. There is no guarantee that next year will be the same as this one, could be very different. Just a few hundred years ago the country was in the grip of deep cold with the Thames frozen & people partying on it. Not long ago really in the scheme of things. I think we have to just be prepared as much for the hosepipe ban as floods, anything goes always has,always will.:)
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Totally agree with this - sorry I am not a great believer in climate change perse - we certainly have weather and it changes a lot! Nothing anyone can do about it so I always have the opinion that if you lived your life around a weather forecast you would never get anything done! Its been wet - last winter it was too dry!
 
A surfaced track system a la Rockley farm would be my first choice for years like this - economises on space and the horses all get to live out in a natural(ish) environment.

I've also been considering keeping my horses on a track / in a trash paddock with hay during the summer (when hopefully it will be at least slightly less muddy!) and letting the grass (and root systems) really grow over the summer, then turning out over winter onto a field that would - in theory - not get too muddy. Whether it would work or not is another matter!
 
tallyhohoho! said:
Thanks Lenehorse for bringing us back on track!

Last winter all the horses were out 24/7. This year, we've had to keep in as there is just no grass. Any goodness the grass that's left has, is leached out by constant rain so everywhere you look is a brown mess and many lost weight rapidly in the autumn. So, it was a conscious decision for me to keep my filly in at night to eat something with some goodness in.

I think it's inevitable that unless we change management and husbandry, livestock production and horse keeping will decline as more and more farms turn to crop growing if they can. I have noticed many farms around here have started to grow Elephant Grass (Miscanthus) and my local feed merchants actually is selling it as biomass fuel.
Click to expand...
On the grass and forrage quality I think its more to do with the lack of sun light to make sugars has been the problem more than the rain, and as soon as there is a good frost the grass looses its goodness , Hopefully this cycle of wet mid summers will revert to how its been in the past, is it 5 or more years we have had a good spring a wet summer and a fair autum??? seems to have been downhill since 1976, Oh and I love the comedians at the met office with there predictions always good for a laugh but sadly the're predicting a barbque summer so we had better stock up on wellies and rain proofs!!:D
 
Peony that actually can happen. I've seen it once in 9 years as we don't often get the high temperatures required. The tracks had got so hot they had warped and bent. Obviously it's not a good idea to fly over them at 100mph when that happens :0
 
Over in Aust I have wondered the same thing, we have not seen any extreme changes yet, or extended changes. But if the weather is hotter and drier, feed will be an issue, not just the cost, but obtaining it at all.

When we have drought hay can get up to $30 a bale for lucerne hay, not $12-17 average range it is now. With a scarcity of water, less grass, less grazing, more reliance on bought feed, and bought feed not a guaranteed steady supply, price fluctuates.

Add to that additional pressures on fuel costs, huge distances that feed is transported, and costs of transporting horses to events etc. I can see a day in the future (within my life time), that horses become a luxury that few can afford.

But you know it may just be worrying for nowt.
 
I know, we could be worrying for nothing but the gradual changes we have seen will no doubt continue until we can replenish grain stores etc.

Already fuel costs are high which impacts on farriery costs, veterinary costs and other healthcare like back and teeth and saddlery. Insurance is only going up and up.

Lots of people have gone back to basics and are seeing 'some' benefits but really only the competing minority with sponsorship and financial backing can afford "luxury" living standards. That's not what we are discussing, more the average masses.

So far, gleaning ideas on this thread, I would change my land by improving drainage and water absorption (trees), consider a track system with well draining hard dry areas with more "soft" ground for winter. Build a large barn for housing just in case it's needed.

Obviously, this will only work with well established herds and not really ideal for high turnover livery yards where individual turnout is necessary to avoid nasty injuries and accidents... Then again... Doesn't Rockley have a relatively high turnover and copes really well with the above system?
 
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