The colour genetic lottery?

[BogTrotter]

Hi,

I was wondering if someone could help me with something I've been wondering about please?

I was reading some past posts in the Breeding section, and one of them had a discussion about what colour the foal would or would not be. I didn't even realise one could even predict such a thing!!

So, if one was to put, say:

a brown/black with some white belly splashes, a bit of white flecking & four white 'socks';
with a
a blue blagdon with some white belly splashes; would this give any indication of what colour the foal maybe?

Thank you. I just wish to increase my learning.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Do you have photos of the two horses?

 

[BogTrotter]

Sorry the pictues are so large, I'm still getting used to this forum.
These are NOT the actual horses I was refering to. I don't have a picture of one of them, anbd no decent shots of the other one.
However, I raided Google and found the closest I could:

Would be brown/black in real life with a couple of white belly splashes:

In real life, similar place. Less of it, but more than glorified flecking (that I'm sure isn't due to age)

Thanks

 

[Meowy Catkin]

OK. It is possible to have an educated guess/prediction of foal colour, but it would be far easier if I could see what the actual horses in question looked like. The things that I would be looking for are to try to work out if the base colour of the black/brown could be worked out and to make sure that the Blagdon doesn't have the Grey gene.



The intense flecking on the flanks and white hairs at the top of the tail of the chestnut that you have posted indicate Rabicano. The other two horses are black based with what is commonly called 'sabino' causing the white flecks and markings (a Blagdon is another name for a loud Sabino). They could also have Splash White too.

So you would expect a black based foal with some degree of sabino and splash white markings or possibly Rabicano too. However, if one parent is actually a Seal Brown, then they could pass that onto the foal and the agouti gene would modify the black base to Seal Brown. If both of the parents carry chestnut, then you could get a surprise chestnut based foal, again with white markings/flecks.

 

[BogTrotter]

Thank you very much Faracat. The information is most interesting.

Just out of interest, if there is a possibility for a 'suprise chestnut' as it were, might there be the possibility of other 'suprise' colours? Like bay?

 

[minmax]

As we are on the colour theme...
I have a chestnut mare, out of a chestnut mare by a piebald in foal to a black stallion.
I also have a bay mare, out of a bay by a black in foal to a black.... any ideas?
Won't hold you to it tho ;-)

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Thank you very much Faracat. The information is most interesting.

Just out of interest, if there is a possibility for a 'suprise chestnut' as it were, might there be the possibility of other 'suprise' colours? Like bay?

If a black based horse had a bay (agouti) gene, the horse would be bay as the agouti gene would dilute the black coat. As you have one black based parent that is possibly seal brown (also caused by agouti), you probably won't have bay hidden there as I believe the bay form is dominant over the brown form.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

As we are on the colour theme...
I have a chestnut mare, out of a chestnut mare by a piebald in foal to a black stallion.

OK, so the chestnut mare only has chestnut genes to pass on to her foal. So really it depends on two things - 1, does the stallion carry a 'hidden' chestnut gene or not and 2, is the mare 'hiding' agouti? If the stallion does have a chestnut gene, then you could get a chestnut foal, if he doesn't then the foal will be black based. If the mare doesn't have agouti, then any black based foal will be black, but if she does carry some form of agouti, then a black based foal would be bay/brown/wild bay depending on which form of agouti she has.


I also have a bay mare, out of a bay by a black in foal to a black.... any ideas?
Won't hold you to it tho ;-)

This one seems to be a simple case of bay or black depending on whether the foal inherits agouti from its dam or not, but if there are 'hidden' chestnut genes in both the dam and sire then a ginger foal could happen!

 

[minmax]

I've just looked at both sides of both.
The chestnut mare has 5 chestnuts going back to G.dams/sires on both her & the stallion.
The bay has 3 chestnuts that are G.dams/sires.
Both have Donnerhall in the mix

 

[BogTrotter]

If a black based horse had a bay (agouti) gene, the horse would be bay as the agouti gene would dilute the black coat. As you have one black based parent that is possibly seal brown (also caused by agouti), you probably won't have bay hidden there as I believe the bay form is dominant over the brown form.

Again, thank you very much Faracat
If the sabino horse was a red-coloured blagdon (like a clydesdale), what might that throw up please?

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Can you clarify, by 'red-coloured' do you mean chestnut blagdon or bright bay blagdon?

 

[BogTrotter]

There's a choice?!
Serouisly, I'm not sure how one would differentiate? I tried to get a bit of sense out of Google, but not really sure what the exact difference would be?
Is it the chestnut or bright bay colour with the white markings? I've seen two different types of clydesdale colouring in 'real life', as it were. A very bright bay (that some may call chestnut I suppose) and the darker brown usually seen on some of the older types.

What would each result in please?

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Bay and chestnut are completely different genetically, so it's essential that I know which colour you mean.

 

[BogTrotter]

I was trying to establish the exact difference between the two, as unsure. As far as my understanding goes, the colouring would be the bay.