The dangers of walkers and dogs

Booboos said:
No I don't know much about farming at all, I was going by your comment that your parents cannot be expected to walk a mile each way! If you didn't mean that then you should have explained yourself better.


Ditto the 'common sense', for me common sense dictates that if a path is a PROW the owner should expect to see people using it and shouldn't place animals that are dangerous on it. Why is the 'common sense' assumption on the users rather than the owner?

Also why not use 'common sense' and buy a farm with no PROW? Or if your farm has a PROW farm less dangerous animals or crops? I don't see why you expect others to show all the responsibility and you none. I had my dog on a leash and was walking a PROW in full view of the farmer who knew he had bullocks in there, but clearly he has no responsibility whatsoever and I have all of it!
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Your ignorance actually offends me, its people with attitudes like yours that really give walkers a bad name.

My family have had their farm for generations, before the no win no fee culture and before people seemingly lost all common sense. On the flip side if you are so insistant on walking your dog through fields why do you buy your own land, and then I can come walk in it and try to sue you for tripping over my own feet - believe me it happens.

You are perfectly within your right to walk through a field of stock with your dog, at least now you are aware of the dangers. This is the countryside, it is where stock lives, if you dont want the danger of walking through cows go to a park, or buy your own.

Incidently this morning my OH has just found some idiot equine person riding through his oil seed rape whilst her husband took photos, a mile from a PROW. Absolute rude, stupid woman.
 
As a young teen I had my pony at a local farm yard that land behind it with a moated site, earthworks & a public right of way.
One of the problems was that housing estates of bungalows had butted up with this land at the edge of the village & residents, most of whom had grown up in towns, walked there dogs there.
One morning whilst I was schooling (probably very badly) on the earthwork I heard yells & yaps & someone very distressed calling for help. the woman had let her Yorkshire Terrier of it's lead & it was worrying a nesting swan & the cob was attacking it. I rode to the farm & one of the labourers ran up with a pitchfork, but it was too late, the cob had drowned the terrier & the woman had twisted her ankle & was in a state of shock.
This has always made me alert to wildlife & livestock. The farmer's wife had warned us not to school our ponies, ride or approach the nest.
Unfortunately some people without rural connections are not aware of dangers. A campaign needs to be held in the media to alert people as so many towns people are accessing the countryside now & are clueless; like the couple mentioned who let the children stroke the cows. Through a fence ok, but going in the field is risky.
 
Dizzydancer said:
Slightly off topic but how come dairy bulls aren't allowed in prow but beef bulls are?
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Because nobody in their right minds goes in a pen with a dairy bull. All dairy bulls are considered to be dangerous, and by those who own and keep them. I saw a Landrover written off, whilst a young Friesan bull had been turned out with heifers, with the driver still in the vehicle! Apart from a few bruises, the driver/bull-owner was OK!!

Dairy bulls should never be given their freedom, ever.

Alec.
 
A dairy/beef farmer told me it was no longer safe to walk in fields with beef cattle. This he said, was due to the fact that they are no longer routinely castrated, as the supermarkets/buyers want lean meat. Also a lot of them are first crosses of dairy or bull dairy calves.
When I have been out & about I have glanced down below & know he was correct. Could this have any leaning on the increased attacks?
 
Dizzydancer said:
Slightly off topic but how come dairy bulls aren't allowed in prow but beef bulls are?
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Dairy bulls have been bred purely for milk yield over and above all other characteristics. So temperament has gone by the board, and most are very dangerous. There aren't that many of them as a lot of dairy farmers don't want to deal with them and also they can just do AI (even better using sexed semen, so that they minimise the welfare issue of all the unwanted dairy bull calves).

Beef cattle are generally better temperaments, because historically they have been handled more. However with the advent of the pickup and quad cow men, to an extent this has reduced. In addition, certain continental breeds are (I) much bigger than uk trad breeds - eg the Charolais, or (ii) of allegedly wild temperaments eg Simmental. However when with calves, some of the UK breeds can be the most protective, eg Galloway so any cow with calves should be steered well clear of.

Note that beef bulls are only allowed to be out in a right of way field if accompanied by cows. A field that isn't crossed by a ROW can have a bull alone in it. Makes for tricky farming in Scotland where people can go in any field that doesn't have crops growing (NB crops do include hayfields so you need to check with owner if unsure).
 
Before I rented the field adjoining my place, the farmer had a charolais bull in there with with some friesian heifers (PROW thro field). He did warn me that the bull could be a bit frisky :rolleyes:, but there was no sign to warn the general public. This bull used to terrify me by standing bellowing and pawing the ground whenever I had the dogs in my own field. The one day it attacked one of the farm workers who came to check the cattle, he managed to crawl under his vehicle but it still broke quite a few ribs and he had some internal bleeding, he was in hospital for quite a while. The bull disappeared shortly afterwards thank heavens.
 
Love the idea of buying a farm without a PROW! Where do we start looking!?
Cattle scare me and when I am up at Mums (Co Durham) every walk has cattle or sheep out. We always walk round the edge keeping a close eye on them and always knowing how to get out if they notice us. When they are calving we don't risk any of those walks. Mum knows the farmers and they tell her if it is best to avoid any areas.
Slightly funny story - years ago we had a neurotic labrador whose defence mechanism was to lie down. Once approached by a herd of bullocks, who to be fair were only curious, the dog duly lay down so we had to carry her out of the field. Trust me, a dead weight labrador is no fun!
 
Just to add to the "cow debate" side of things. I was driving on a country road through Dorset yesterday and a large bull was in the middle of the road. I usually wouldn't attempt to "herd" such a beast as it was angry and panicked but he was heading straight for the main road in rush hour!

I tried my best to get around the bull and herd him back down the country lane and into a field but he had a filthy temper and was enormous and I was pretty scared. Unfortunately he went straight onto the main road and I ran up in horror as all I could hear were tyres screeching. Absolute miracle no-one was injured or hurt, least the bull.

Now then, this bull then casually hedge hopped into a field which was an utter joke when it came to security, a very thin hedge all of 3ft high with some thin plain wire running through the hedge but not attached to posts. As I was about to leave a guy in a 4x4 turned up. I asked if it was his bull and if he was back in the right field as it had been on the road and he said "did it damage your car"? I said no to which he replied "did it damage anyone elses"? Again I said no and his final response was "yes, he's mine, thanks for getting him back to the right field" and then just drove off.

Clearly he had absolutely NO intention of admitting liability if there had been any damage. Absolutely disgusting behaviour. If you can't be bothered to fence your animals in properly then don't bloody well keep them and put others at risk.

I've got his reg number and he has been reported to the police for not securing his animal(s) properly which they were pretty furious about as they said they had a flurry of phone calls from panicked drivers who had narrowly avoided a collision.

With regards to PROW's then as a land/animal owner you have to be responsible and know that not all people know the difference between a cow and a bull or what's a "nice cow" and what's a "not so nice cow", best thing is to just cover every single base and stick a sign up that says "CAUTION: LIVESTOCK CAN KILL". Very over the top but it covers all animals, costs a few quid and could save lives and/or a lawsuit. Unfortunately not everyone knows it's not very clever/safe to walk into a field and stroke a cow/bull/killer shetland.
 
Thanks alec and landm- the reason i ask is i grew up next to a dairy farm and parents still live there now, they have a massive bull who is out in fields nearly all time, sometimes in fields with paths all be it electric fenced away from the path. But they have had this bull and its previously its father since i was little- i would never have been given inclination that they were much more dangerous than the average bull.
In actual fact the earlier one the farmer used to sit on! I guess it is a very rare occasion for that.
Thanks for answering.
 
Dunlin said:
Just to add to the "cow debate" side of things. I was driving on a country road through Dorset yesterday and a large bull was in the middle of the road. I usually wouldn't attempt to "herd" such a beast as it was angry and panicked but he was heading straight for the main road in rush hour!

I tried my best to get around the bull and herd him back down the country lane and into a field but he had a filthy temper and was enormous and I was pretty scared. Unfortunately he went straight onto the main road and I ran up in horror as all I could hear were tyres screeching. Absolute miracle no-one was injured or hurt, least the bull.

Now then, this bull then casually hedge hopped into a field which was an utter joke when it came to security, a very thin hedge all of 3ft high with some thin plain wire running through the hedge but not attached to posts. As I was about to leave a guy in a 4x4 turned up. I asked if it was his bull and if he was back in the right field as it had been on the road and he said "did it damage your car"? I said no to which he replied "did it damage anyone elses"? Again I said no and his final response was "yes, he's mine, thanks for getting him back to the right field" and then just drove off.

Clearly he had absolutely NO intention of admitting liability if there had been any damage. Absolutely disgusting behaviour. If you can't be bothered to fence your animals in properly then don't bloody well keep them and put others at risk.

I've got his reg number and he has been reported to the police for not securing his animal(s) properly which they were pretty furious about as they said they had a flurry of phone calls from panicked drivers who had narrowly avoided a collision.

With regards to PROW's then as a land/animal owner you have to be responsible and know that not all people know the difference between a cow and a bull or what's a "nice cow" and what's a "not so nice cow", best thing is to just cover every single base and stick a sign up that says "CAUTION: LIVESTOCK CAN KILL". Very over the top but it covers all animals, costs a few quid and could save lives and/or a lawsuit. Unfortunately not everyone knows it's not very clever/safe to walk into a field and stroke a cow/bull/killer shetland.
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Plenty of farmers would be happy to put up signs, unfortunately if they do their insurance says they aren't covered as they are suggesting their animals are dangerous and walkers won't let them do it as they say it is a deliberate attempt to put them off exercising their rights to use the ROW.....also signs would not work in Scotland as there aren't defined routes of ROWs, people can go where they like pretty much, the sign would have to extend the full length of every fence which might result in fairly stretched writing....:-)
 
Of course here in Scotland access has to be taken "reponsibly" and the land manager/owner has to act "responsibly"....... the problem is that both parties, so often, have trouble understanding the meaning of responsible!!
 
I don't know what the answer is. Years ago my uncle managed a number of dairy and cereal farms. It was almost par for the course for some of herd to be let out by walkers. I have also been out rides only to find the gate nailed shut. Couple of years ago when on safari, we all had the warning about not wandering off piste to look at the animals. Now to me, we were looking at wild animals and I would never have dreamt about going off the road to look more closely. However only 2 weeks previously, a couple had driven up to get a closer look at the elephants who had then charged the car killing them. With rights comes responsibility but people often seem to forget this!
 
It is not just cows with calves who are a danger - recently calved dairy cows who have had their calves taken away are prone to being decidedly grumpy... understandably!
 
Coming back to our yard after a hack the other day my friend and I could see two walkers with a dog on lead on the footpath crossing the field with the Highland cattle with calves which is part of the farm where our horses are kept. We were on the lane.

The field is split in two with a hedge running through it with a gap so they can wander between the two halves. One lone mother with calf was in the half by the footpath. You could see she was really agitated by the people as they were quite near her calf who had wandered a little way from her. We both stopped to watch nervously expecting something bad to happen but luckily the calf came back to the mother and they joined the rest of the herd. I reckon it was a close call but the walkers seemed oblivious.

I hate walking through fields of cattle and usually skirt around the edge constantly scanning for emergency escape routes
 
just as an aside, all the cattle men i know reckon cows are more dangerous than bulls as a bull looks at you drops his head and charges-meaning he cannot see when he is charging, but a cow keeps her eye on you whilst she comes at you.

DD we had 3 hereford and one charolais bull on the farm in the yrs i was there that one of the workers (my brothe-in-law) used to sit on, obviously we had lots that you could not too. we had the tallest hereford (HITECH) bull in the UK on the farm for a year and he was very aggressive, he went for the JCB on a number of occasions when they were putting round bales out. he had bulging eyes which i commented on a few times when he left our farm and went to another he attacked a worker and i believe he killed him, he was shot and an examination done and it turned out he had a brain tumour so would have been in a lot of pain.

from what i understand dairy bulls are in a league of their own when it comes to being testy:rolleyes:
 
Some dog owners should not walk their dogs, we have a fence down i our garden, well did, was fixed today, so have been walking the dogs on an extra walk during the day,
We chose a golf course with a footpath right next to the stables, I have 2 staffs and they are not very good at recalling so we keep them on 8m stretchy leads, both Saturday and Sunday my dogs were attacked by dogs off the lead,

Luckily both my girls are submissive and did not attack back, but you can betcha bottom dollar who would have got the blame if they have fought back!!!

MY STAFFORDSHIRE BULL TERRIERS!!!

If the dog is not safe, muzzle it or keep it on a lead :mad:
 
I won't go in a field with cows if I can help it, to do so with a dog would be lunacy IMO. Not worth a nice dander through the countryside. They're big, they're powerful and they're dangerous and it's not my job to deal with them.
Too many family members injured (my grandmother pretty much had her shin snapped in half and my father was badly trampled a couple of times doing tests, and a friend was badly crushed at a show a few weeks ago and had all his camera gear wrecked) and too many inquests attended to make me change my mind.
 
I've not read the whole thread, but IMO rights of way have to be safe for all users. If a farmer puts stock in a field through which a footpath or bridleway runs knowing there could be a potential accident and doesn't fence off the right of way, they should be completely liable if (when!) an accident happens.
 
Flame_ said:
I've not read the whole thread, but IMO rights of way have to be safe for all users. If a farmer puts stock in a field through which a footpath or bridleway runs knowing there could be a potential accident and doesn't fence off the right of way, they should be completely liable if (when!) an accident happens.
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do you honestly think it is reasonable for no farmer to ever put stock in a field with a PROW through it because someone with a dog might not have enough brains not to walk in there?

just because you have a right to do something doesn't mean you should pig headedly do it even though it might cause you harm. Like I said earlier I have a right to hack down the a15 but if doesn't mean im stupid enough to do it.

Perhaps PROWs dont work quite as well now because people dont seem to regard their safety as highly as they once did, because if they get injured there will be someone held liable, usually the person who owns it and works hard to make a living from it.

It would be a completely different response if the general public were suggesting horses couldn't be in fields with PROWs through them, guarentee.
 
RunToEarth said:
do you honestly think it is reasonable for no farmer to ever put stock in a field with a PROW through it because someone with a dog might not have enough brains not to walk in there?
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Of course. Right of way means right of way and shouldn't be obstructed by potentially dangerous animals. To me that totally includes horses. Rights of way should be safely passable at all times and that means either making alternative use of the land or fencing off rights of way. It's just as out of order to block a public ROW as it is to block a public highway.
 
Flame_ said:
I've not read the whole thread, but IMO rights of way have to be safe for all users. If a farmer puts stock in a field through which a footpath or bridleway runs knowing there could be a potential accident and doesn't fence off the right of way, they should be completely liable if (when!) an accident happens.
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During the last F&M crisis, every PROW in the country was closed to access. It would be a simple matter to give preference to those who wish to graze livestock on land, and have PROW CLOSED notices at each end of a field.

To dog walkers, a PROW is a convenience, to the land owner, the grazing is vital. There's no question as to who should have precedence, and it isn't the idiots who take dogs, on leads, in with cows and calves.

Alec.
 
I think what people miss is that it is a Public Right of Way - the farmer still OWNS it. To that end it is the farmers land to earn money with if he can - or to utilise it in whichever way he wants. As he/ she OWNS it. The public have a right of way to walk on a narrow path, sensibly, with their dog under close control, over someone elses land, but no right to decree what the owner can do with that land.
 
^^^^ This! I am not a farmer, and I do like to use PROWs but can't believe that some people think they have a right over the farmer who owns the land.

That was actually aimed at Alecs post but applies just as much to Clodaghs.
 
Flame_ said:
I've not read the whole thread, but IMO rights of way have to be safe for all users. If a farmer puts stock in a field through which a footpath or bridleway runs knowing there could be a potential accident and doesn't fence off the right of way, they should be completely liable if (when!) an accident happens.
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no cow, or horse for that matter in a field can ever be anything other than an accident waiting to happen if there is the right irritation or circumstances. They can never be guarenteed to be 100% safe. Anyone who has been around horses is perfectly well aware of that and cows are no different.
So, following your argument farmers (or horse owners) cannot therefore put stock in a field that has a footpath or bridlepath.
So, what use is the farmer supposed to make of that land? Often it is only suitable for grazing.

The only alternatives are not to use the field. ie the farmer is paying for land he is totally ever unable to use. Alternatively someone should pay to fence it safely. Who is going to do that? you the walker? the taxpayer?
BTW if it is not grazed who is going to cut the grass and hedges for the walkers?

along with rights to use footpaths etc also come responsibilties. I thnk it is high time that walkers started to realse this.
 
paddy555 said:
no cow, or horse for that matter in a field can ever be anything other than an accident waiting to happen if there is the right irritation or circumstances. They can never be guarenteed to be 100% safe. Anyone who has been around horses is perfectly well aware of that and cows are no different.
So, following your argument farmers (or horse owners) cannot therefore put stock in a field that has a footpath or bridlepath.
So, what use is the farmer supposed to make of that land? Often it is only suitable for grazing.
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Sheep? Turf? Or fencing them off. I would never be comfortable with the risk to the public walking through my horses in that situation, it just screams danger. The ROW will have been there longer than any farmer or horse owner has even been alive and they know when accepting the land that they have an obligation to always enable safe passage of public ROW. It would be a dreadfully arrogant, inconsiderate arse who knew that their animals might well hurt someone and did nothing about it except blame the "idiots" for walking where they are legally permitted to walk.
 
Fencing them off would be fine but would cost a fortune, who is going to pay for that? Maybe the Ramblers Association, they seem to have plenty of money.
I still object to owning land and not being able to use it, what is the point? If you had a footpath through your garden would you be OK not to let your dog out in it?
 
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