The dangers of walkers and dogs

Jools,

that doesn't answer the question.

What does answer the general quandary though, is that if walkers are going to insist upon putting themselves at risk, when livestock keepers are exercising their rights of usage, and if those who are exercising a "convenience" as opposed to a "need" are going to insist upon their "Rights", then in consultation with all stakeholders, there will need to be a ruling which gives one, or the other side of the equation a ruling. Either those who farm, and those who keep horses, will be barred from grazing land which has a PROW going through it, because of the perceived danger, or, when livestock are present, then there will be the right to shut down those PROW, which are affected.

The problem with the above paragraph will be that there will undoubtably be those farmers, so irate with the lack of general courtesy shown by many "walkers", that they'll keep livestock in place, virtually permanently, and so to keep their boundaries secure.

Is that what the pro users would want, or are they prepared to consider a common sense approach, and keep out when livestock are present? By and large, I'd suggest that the Farming community assist with the recreational aspect of their land, but there are those, a couple on here for certain, who being the most vociferous minority, want to spoil it for the majority.

Alec.
 
We have a footpath going through the middle of our home field where horses graze, won't put heavy in calf or freshly calved cows in there, had no trouble but it then goes into a fenced off bit of someone elses horse field which is overgrown and full of rabbit holes then over three lines of very busy and fast rail track, rail way wanted to divert path to closer to our house so they don't go over track but we can fore see problems so won't allow it to bediverted.
 
BoolavogueDC said:
We have had stock mauled. We constantly see people in our field, using the footpath or rather using the field at liberty :confused: It's a footPATH not a free for all parcel of land!
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Our drive is a public bridleway and therefore we get a lot of walkers and cyclists along here too. We have had people having a picnic on our front lawn before!
 
Alec Swan said:
those who are exercising a "convenience" as opposed to a "need"

Nobody "needs" a field, most of us survive perfectly well without one, you "want" to use your field for good reasons, as do others.

Is that what the pro users would want, or are they prepared to consider a common sense approach, and keep out when livestock are present?
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That is not a common sense approach, that is admitting the ROW is obstructed.
 
I don't think there are many farmers who would keep proven aggressive cattle at all, and especially not on PROW. One of our bulls put my OH through a post and rail fence last year and went the very same day. The problem is that any cow could have the potential to hurt somebody, they are large, unpredictable animals. My problem with all this is that i fail to see how a farmer be held responsible for an accident if there had never been any prior warning/ incident and he had not taken risks or is each case dealt with individually? I just feel relieved reading this that we have a very small section of footpath and that the dairy girls are usually in that field.
 
WARNING GRAPHIC PICS!


Sorry I don't see what was so dreadfully incoherant about my post lol :D

Anyway yes, I mean our sheep got mauled by two dogs. I certainly did not find it funny when I found this, at some 4 months pregnant (me) and her ;)



 
hayley.t said:
I don't think there are many farmers who would keep proven aggressive cattle at all, and especially not on PROW. One of our bulls put my OH through a post and rail fence last year and went the very same day. The problem is that any cow could have the potential to hurt somebody, they are large, unpredictable animals. My problem with all this is that i fail to see how a farmer be held responsible for an accident if there had never been any prior warning/ incident and he had not taken risks or is each case dealt with individually? I just feel relieved reading this that we have a very small section of footpath and that the dairy girls are usually in that field.
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But are farmers blamed when these unfortunate and sad incidents occur, I don't think they are and they will hold liability insurance if they are .
Proven aggressive cattle are got rid of but unfortunatly awful accidents happen I easily could have been killed the incident that I posted at the beginning of the thread .
The farmer in that incident was horrified when he arrived he saw the horse rear and go over but did not see I was on my feet until he got to the field he thought they had killed me they easily could have it would not have been the farmers fault he could not have foreseen it .
It is thought that bot flys had wound the bullocks up I don't know if that's possible I was too busy being grateful that the horse and I had escaped in one piece.in this case the farmer was lovely and had my horse and a pony to stay so the horse could graze with cows .
 
Well the good news is she lived and gave birth to lovely twin lambs.

The bad news is nothing ever came of it, the police felt the evidence of finding the dogs in the field wasn't strong enough to prosecute the owners.

And Helga popped her clogs this year :(

What was worse than the injuries was the fear, you can see it in her. She was totally prepared to be eaten alive really.
 
How many dog owners have PL insurance for them? A lot would but not all then hassle of claiming.
 
Phew! Epic thread.

Around here, lots of fields have signs on. Sheep fields often have "Lambing Season, please keep all dogs on leads". Beef fields have "Warning, cows can be very protective of their young".

Personally I think that there has to be a bit of give and take on both sides. I think its wrong to simply expect people to stay out of fields with stock in - many footpaths around here have stock in all year and some of the "less personable" farmers around here would delight in putting "dodgy"stock in that would prevent people going across paths if it became the norm.

We have two footpaths on our land. One goes down the edge of the field, so we have fenced a 4' strip off so that the path is totally away from any stock (horses and sheep in this case). There is an outward bound school next to the field, so the path is used almost daily by junior school children, so I prefer them safely seperated. The second path goes across a field and can't be fenced off or the horses couldn't get to the stream to drink. When we had a bargy livery we fenced an intermittent line of plain fence across, so the horses could get through the gaps and the people could duck under the fence if they felt threatened. If I had cattle on that field I would probably fence the footpath, leaving gaps regularly for the cattle to get across, but meaning that the public and their dogs were safely out of the way in a path fenced on both sides. Yes it would cost me a few hundred to do it, but to me it would be worth it for peace of mind and keeping people safe (and TBH I prefer people kept out of the field anyway, stops them deviating - we are always getting people playing on our smaller XC fences with their dogs - sometimes even half a field off the path..) We are lucky around here in that the footpaths are maintained and stiles are replaced by the council.

I think a lot of people saying "people should walk elsewhere" are like me, lucky enough to live on a farm and walk our dogs on our own land, never much using paths etc, or we live in areas with a big network of paths, so we don't know how important some paths are to people. The issue becomes more difficult when the paths are few and far between and in a more urban area.
 
mon said:
Where does it say on Jools quote dogs are allowed on footpaths?
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Countryside and Rights of Way Act.
Dogs and prams are seen as natural accompaniments and are therefore allowed.

Many farmers and landowners are community spirited and are really good about taking reasonable steps to ensure that the public and their livestock don't come to harm.

However, the farmer in Turleigh where a walker was recently killed, knew he had a problem. 4 serious attacks in 5 years to walkers both with and without dogs. He choose to do nothing, until now that the police are involved, despite having paid huge compensation for the attacks.

I do wonder if those criticising walkers for exercising their 'right' to walk on footpaths take their holidays in cities. Can't imagine them walking around the Lake District or the coast line on other landowners private land, seeing their objections to public access.
 
I don't have holidays, we don't have problems with footpaths but would foresee problems if network rail were to force us to have it diverted that's why we wont allow it moved, if they are worried about FP going over tracks they will either have to put an over or under pass or close FP.
 
horserider said:
I do wonder if those criticising walkers for exercising their 'right' to walk on footpaths take their holidays in cities. Can't imagine them walking around the Lake District or the coast line on other landowners private land, seeing their objections to public access.
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I wasn't criticising walkers for exercising their rights to walk on footpaths, I was suggesting that sometimes it may require a judgement call.

I am a great believer in PROWs if they are used considerately by both landowner and user, and after three years of university my love of them was considerately reinforced - even though I went to Ag College in the rolling Cotswolds I would have had a miserable time confined to the streets of Cirencester, they are essential and I think the vast majority of landowners agree that it would be a terrible shame to lose them.

There does need to be a mutual respect for one another and although in the mostpart there is, when one party takes the pee out of the other it ruins it for everyone.
 
Did anyone watch Countryfile last night? Did you see the guy with the 20 Hereford first calvers, with their calves at foot, and he said that they had to be quiet cattle, as "walkers with dogs" used the public footpath which went through the field?

Everyone with ruminants needs the grass which they have, we all know, but that was tempting fate.

Alec.
 
Perhaps one of the problems is the breed of cattle in the fields. Dairy & beef have always been cross bred of course, but are the continentals, limousin, charollais, simmentels & MRY's more temperamental mixed with dairy breeds? Does breeding for increased dairy yield have a factor in this too?
They said that Herefords are a quiet breed, though I have heard that Galloways are not.
Keeping males uncastrated to reduce fatty beef must be a factor too.
 
We were walking our dog yesterday (we our young children) when the footpath we were following took us through a field of cattle. Walkers were coming the other way through the field without a problem, but the cows were showing too much interest in our dog through the fencing and so was she. I know there was an incident last year along the same footpath were a lady was attacked by cows when walking her two rotties. There was an alternative footpath through another gate and around a hill which we took. We skirted around the hill and then up another one where we sat and admired the view for a while. Imagine our concern when we set off down to realise the cows appeared below us; we had mistakenly thought they were fenced off, but obviously not. Still they walked past and ignored us and the dog was extremely well behaved. She had been off the lead, but although I know she is fine around horses, she hasn't met too many cows and never in the same field so I did pop her lead back on.
 
I've been reading this with varying degrees of amusement, agreement and annoyance. To those that feel that PROW gives you rights but no responsibilities I wonder why you are on this forum at all. If you have horses then you have to know that give and take is essential to have a happy and peaceful coexistence with other riders and road users.

If you are out hacking and pootling at walk on a bridlepath and someone overtakes you at gallop without a word you would probably be more than a little annoyed, but why ? They have perfect right to do what they want when they want, they don't have any need to consider you.

Showing consideration to others is important, the farmers have a legal duty to maintain PROWS, they also have a legal right to keep stock in their fields. Sometimes they may have no option as to which field to use, they may have crops in other fields, they may have already put their more "dangerous" herds in other fields, they could have fields under flood, or pure volume of PROWs across their fields may give them no options.

It is every persons duty to take reasonable care of their own H&S, so if your are going walking in an area you are unfamiliar with then do a quick search on the internet. This will tell you that when walking dogs in the countryside you should keep them under control and on leads around sheep, and avoid going through fields with cattle in where possible. If you must go through a field with cattle in then walk along the perimeter and be ready to loose your dog if necessary.

Or maybe farmers should tarmac all their footpaths and put in 8ft solid fences either side of the path. This would keep you perfectly safe with no risk ! The fact that you would have no countryside to view and might as well be walking through the middle of any town housing estate would just be one of those crosses you have to bear for being totally "safe".
 
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Funnily enough Lizzie66 we did once have walkers come to the house to complain that they could not get through one of the ROW gates without getting muddy...... the gate was fastened open too, but they were wearing white trainers. Maybe tarmac would have been cleaner.
 
That old chestnut, I believe it would be totally safer for your family and you, if you let go your dog, in the close proximity of angry cattle. (I know in this case they weren't and you probably know this!!)
I'm pretty sure the dog would be more of interest to them, than you.

I remember reading last year wasn't it, about that man and his 'bull dog' wasn't it, that got killed (the cows were after the dog and the man kept the lead so they both had it ) :( whilst I understand only too well the desire to keep your dog safe...it's likely it can outrun cattle, whereas you cannot..probbaly :D unless you are very fast! :D :p
 
MurphysMinder said:
There have been a number of incidents where people (and dogs) have been killed by cattle. There was someone on here whose bulldog was killed if I recall.:(
Most doggy people I know are aware of the risk, but obviously it isn't as common knowledge as I thought.
As to dogs killing stock, I have no idea how the message will ever get through to people. I read just this morning of 2 alpaca being killed by dogs.
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But how can it not be common sense that if you take a dog, a prey animal, into a field of cows and calves, they may well defend themselves, It ib just another illustration of the menace of dogs and all the idiots who just cannot see that they are not suitable as pets.
 
Spook said:
Funnily enough Lizzie66 we did once have walkers come to the house to complain that they could not get through one of the ROW gates without getting muddy...... the gate was fastened open too, but they were wearing white trainers. Maybe tarmac would have been cleaner.
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There we go then, probelm solved, get out there tarmacing paths and fencing them in with solid 8ft panels !
 
To put a bit of perspective on this more people are killed putting their trousers on than are killed by livestock so I guess if you wear trousers and or walk in a cow field you are placing yourself at risk what ever you do
I do walk my dog on a ROW every day there are beef cattle about but I make sure she is at heel and off lead so she can run away from them. They only have mild nuisance value when they first come to the fields as they are curious about everything they soon get used to people and dogs and ignore you. So I am happy to walk my well behaved wussy dog through the cattle and if I have an accident so be it it is so rare as to be inconsequential to me
The farmer has signs that just say cattle in the field so you can make an informed decision
 
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