the dead ones are the lucky ones :(

TheMule said:
Have you ever been there?
There is a huge media hype but whenever I go and visit my brother, I see only well cared for, well loved pets, including at the local riding centre
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I've not looked at the articles and I've not been to China. I have no desire to. This is the country that insists that every cosmetic product sold there goes through animal testing, even when it's not remotely helpful in determining suitability for human use, and even when the product has been successfully sold in Europe without any animal testing whatsoever. Many companies that were previously "cruelty free" have lost this accreditation due to expanding into the Chinese market. So perhaps individually, people love their pets as much as the next guy, but as a nation, from a political and policy perspective, not so much.
 
Just because it goes on else where doesn't mean people can't comment or voice an opinion on this subject. I will never forget the photo in a newspaper a few years back of a baby girl lying dumped in a road and passerby just walking past as if she was a piece of rubbish in the street. Of course not all Chinese people are like this but china has an appalling human rights attitude let alone getting started on animal rights.
 
China. Live bears "milked" from their gall bladders, kept in tiny cages. Live snakes slit open and their gall bladders and blood drunk as their hearts still beat. Tiger penis, tiger bone. Live dogs skinned - I've seen film of all of these things and the images haunt me. There's a different way of thinking about life in many parts of China, and not just animal life. These horses were destined for no good end, like so many animals in China. Have I been there? No. I haven't the stomach for it.
 
Heartbreaking pics! My much loved companion pony would have filled many cans of Pedigree Chum had I not paid a ridiculous sum of money for her (almost £1,000) from a dodgy Kent dealer about eight years ago! Wish I hadn't viewed this - I'm a real softy!
 
CrazyCobLady said:
I have to say, I completely agree. I'm distraught for these poor horses, and the countless other ones destined for the same fate.
Look at them, they're skin and bones.
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Really they're not. Terrible accident and awful outcome for the 5 dead - but let's not be hysterical about this. The ponies in the pictures are nowhere near skin and bone. They look like perfectly normal ponies to me. I agree that there should have been fewer in the lorry, but in a country where human rights are low on the agenda we are going to get nowhere complaining about equine welfare. Let's concentrate on our own welfare infringements first and become outraged with poorer nations later.
 
Bedlam said:
Really they're not. Terrible accident and awful outcome for the 5 dead - but let's not be hysterical about this. The ponies in the pictures are nowhere near skin and bone. They look like perfectly normal ponies to me. I agree that there should have been fewer in the lorry, but in a country where human rights are low on the agenda we are going to get nowhere complaining about equine welfare. Let's concentrate on our own welfare infringements first and become outraged with poorer nations later.
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^^this.

Can't see sign of 60 horses, though some did apparently run off. Could the Daily Fail possibly have been exaggerating?! Those in the pics looked pretty good really. Definitely seen far worse in the uk.
 
Arizahn said:
Not looking, have seen best and worst of humanity already this week :( Cannot manage any more human awfulness. Our species does not deserve to live on this planet.
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I can't look either I read all the posts first so know it must be as bad as it gets. I have been asking myself for years why oh why do people do the things they do to defenceless animals and children and I do not have the answer. I just don't understand how the way most of us think can be so different to others. I know I could never deliberately treat an animal or a child for that matter so wickedly. Makes me ashamed to be a human being. Still can't bring myself to look, and I'm not burying my head in the sand, I am well aware of the heinous acts that are committed, I really don't need to keep seeing it, I just wish I had a way to stop it
 
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As much as I hate the Chinese attitude to animal welfare (bile farms etc), this attitude does exist all over the planet. Look at the poorly put together and unhealthy fly grazed ponies here, the sick and newly weaned at our markets, the animals travelling thousands of miles in appalling conditions across America to Canada or Mexico to face horrendous deaths, all because the US has closed the slaughterhouses, the horses journeying across Europe to end up for meat. It's a horrible time to be an animal, and as a race, we should do so much more for them.
 
Landcruiser said:
China. Live bears "milked" from their gall bladders, kept in tiny cages. Live snakes slit open and their gall bladders and blood drunk as their hearts still beat. Tiger penis, tiger bone. Live dogs skinned - I've seen film of all of these things and the images haunt me. There's a different way of thinking about life in many parts of China, and not just animal life. These horses were destined for no good end, like so many animals in China. Have I been there? No. I haven't the stomach for it.
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^^^^
This..... and not forgetting the live cows/calves they tip of the back of trucks for the big cats in their zoo's to pounce on watched by bus loads of tourists oh and the live chickens you can buy to throw to them aswell!

I know people will say that that is no different to going on safari and watching the "big cats kill" , the difference is that these cats know whats in the truck and hang around the back of it, the poor cow is so bewildered on being tipped out it has nowhere to go except straight to it's death, and really would you pay to throw live chickens?
 
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First off understand in no way do I condone cruelty. But, I have been to china which I doubt most posters have. It was fine to visit as a tourist, but I wouldn't want to live there as a native Chinese person. You are asking for a country to give a care about animals, where they don't even do that about their own people. To state the obvious China is not Europe (which in itself is not free from human or animals persecution). In the not very distant past during the cultural revolution, millions starved to death, so you can't blame them for an attitude where everything is edible, that may well be how they survived. People can still be arrested & held to killed on a whim. I witnessed our tour guide, when we stopped to talk to a mongolian artist about his work, genuinely scared to death, finding out later the secert police had been hovering checking what we were talking about. Sheer terror is not pleasent to witness. If they commit an offence they may still be condemed to death, by decapitation or disappear to a labour camp to learn the error of their ways.
 
TheMule said:
I dont really understand what this has to do with animal cruelty.... This was an RTA, not cruelty
Surely the fact that 2 horses were killed in similar accidents in the UK just a week or so ago makes this point?!
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I agree with this. They don't look in bad shape as I was expecting (I wouldn't describe them as skin and bone) although the lorry they're transfering them into doesn't look suitable. I suspect the number of horses it was carrying has been exagerated somewhat by the ever so reliable daily mail....
 
The majority of the human race is disgraceful, not just for the link posted but everything else that has been mentioned. I can't put down in words what i would like otherwise i'd be banned.
 
The original lorry looks like the new one - open topped/minimal roofing which I guess is why so many look like they fell out... (or flung out as the DM puts it). Have certainly seen much worse forms of transport and at the very least bedding was provided and the horses don't look in bad nick. They were apparently going to market - not straight to slaughter but for the poster who said that there is no need for live transport there is- you have to get the animal to the slaughterhouse at least and we have no idea how far these horses had travelled etc. - The US shipping horses to mexico/canada for slaughter until recently (2011) http://www.hsvma.org/slaughter_bound_horses_101111#.UneRW_nIZqM in double decker trucks, http://www.horsechannel.com/horse-news/double-deck-trailer-accident.aspx is more of an issue IMO so not sure this fits on an anti chinese bandwagon.
 
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pip6 said:
First off understand in no way do I condone cruelty. But, I have been to china which I doubt most posters have. It was fine to visit as a tourist, but I wouldn't want to live there as a native Chinese person. You are asking for a country to give a care about animals, where they don't even do that about their own people. To state the obvious China is not Europe (which in itself is not free from human or animals persecution). In the not very distant past during the cultural revolution, millions starved to death, so you can't blame them for an attitude where everything is edible, that may well be how they survived. People can still be arrested & held to killed on a whim. I witnessed our tour guide, when we stopped to talk to a mongolian artist about his work, genuinely scared to death, finding out later the secert police had been hovering checking what we were talking about. Sheer terror is not pleasent to witness. If they commit an offence they may still be condemed to death, by decapitation or disappear to a labour camp to learn the error of their ways.
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Thanks for that.I will never visit China (not that they would care I expect) as my small protest about both animal cruelty and human rights abuses.
 
TheMule said:
Have you ever been there?
There is a huge media hype but whenever I go and visit my brother, I see only well cared for, well loved pets, including at the local riding centre
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I assume you are talking about China, it's hard to tell as Spring Feather's post was removed.

Having lived there for many years, I would *LOVE* to know which riding centre you went to. In Shanghai, there was one riding centre that was a polo club which charged mega-bucks and obviously, they had much better facilities. There were a couple of mediocre riding centres that semi-tried to keep things to a western standard. The other two were pitiful. I won't mention the poor horses that are part of fairgrounds or park pony rides or zoos.

As a tourist there you are seeing a polished version.

The problem with most animal welfare issues in China is a lack of education and no animal rights. You are now in the very strange situation where the vast majority of the population see animals as chattel with zero concern for their welfare, and then you have the people who can afford to care who have swung the other way, treating their animals like children. Unfortunately those "children" end up as spoilt brats with no manners (training).
 
TheMule said:
This looks like a double decker lorry to me, who can say if it was crowded or not? Cattle trucks carry similar numbers routinely.
The horses, as stated above, look in good condition and were off to market, not slaughter
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It's not a double decker lorry, there are very few double decker lorries, it's a bog standard Chinese rust-bucket that probably was held together with duct-tape and had bald tyres. I used to dread driving anywhere in the rain, especially on the highways. There is very little in the way of vehicle regulation and even less in the way of enforcement.

It was raining, and they drive like idiots. This kind of thing happens every day, it's only news because it was horses on the lorry.
 
shannonandtay said:
Just because it goes on else where doesn't mean people can't comment or voice an opinion on this subject. I will never forget the photo in a newspaper a few years back of a baby girl lying dumped in a road and passerby just walking past as if she was a piece of rubbish in the street. Of course not all Chinese people are like this but china has an appalling human rights attitude let alone getting started on animal rights.
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Oh, there's been much, much worse than that...
 
And those horses/ponies look skinny to me . . . no, not emaciated, but skinny . . . and that's not good enough - I don't care that they were going to slaughter . . . they will have been hungry (and more besides).

Not good enough at all.

P
 
Ptolemy said:
I assume you are talking about China, it's hard to tell as Spring Feather's post was removed.
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Yes my post was reported by another member. Yes it was China I was talking about.

Having lived there for many years,...
As a tourist there you are seeing a polished version.
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Yes, and that was where my post was coming from. A number of my family members have lived in China was more than half of their lives, and I based my comments on their experiences of 30 years living there. But hey, if others believe that all is good for animals in China then that's their prerogative.
 
HandleyCross said:
I'm lost for words. Lets try and strangle the ones still alive by putting ropes around their necks and drag them up a ramp. This is where I'm not proud of being human
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Well in their defense there, the people handling them at this point are absolutely clueless about how to deal with horses. Horses are not a "big thing" in China until you hit the more northern territories (Mongolia). They needed to get the horses back on a truck, so just did what they would do with a dog or any other random animal.

The guy driving the truck is simply a truck driver.

There's one policeman.

I'm guessing that the guys with the straw hats and hi-vis are simply traffic wardens (commonplace on large intersections to stop pedestrians walking across junctions whenever they want and creating traffic chaos)

Then there's Joe Public.
 
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