The deal for repeal - rating farmland

[Judgemental]

The trouble with this argument is that we simply cannot continue to rely on cheap food imports. I know most of the books I urge people using this forum to read are a little bit dull, but if you get a chance grab a copy of Last Light by Alex Scarrow; a thriller but nonetheless with recent instability in the Middle East the concept that is raised of 'peak oil' cannot be ignored. UK has to look at issues of self-sufficiency that are just as relevant as in 1929 when the Rating Exemption bill was passed.

The rating argument itself is an interesting proposal. However the government cannot expect to have its cake and eat it. They are keen for farmers to diversify the rural economy, embark on environmental stewardship schemes and, host renewable energy projects and public access but on the other hand they also sense that they can tap landowners for more cash to try and meet the short fall in revenues that has been caused by the profligacy of past governments with UK debt levels. They also fail to see that although cereal prices are currently high, this has been preceded by years when prices were on the floor plus as other commentators have already picked up - high grain prices = high feed prices for livestock sectors.

I have also found in recent cases of dispute with the Valuation Office Agency 2010 ratings list that those people who can afford to employ my boss to take issue with the rates demand see a reduction in the RV of their property and thus the eventual bill; while those who do not have the money to employ an agent to formally battle on their behalf lose out on potential savings.

Whilst recent experience of government efficiency as far as the RPA & the re-mapping of the Rural Land Register has been concerned hardly sets a confident precedent for hassle free transition to a new system.

The article gives serious food for thought. I have just passed copies round the office which the other agents are reading with interest, but there are serious reservations about how such a system could be implemented.

Claire the last time I commented upon one of your posts, I was unwise enough to call you an argicultural Estate agent. Persish the thought I should do the same again. Valuer.

That said a great deal of what you have said is a reflection of the policies of the last administration.

If you look at the fine detail coming out of DEFRA, the coalition are still getting to grips with policies. Lets face it, there was the Forestry debacle. They are not going to get bitten twice.

That in my opinion pushed agricultural rates on farmland and buildings much higher up the agenda.

All the valuers were looking forward to a nice little earner, of course you were?

Currently there is very little on the table to replace it (forestry sales).

So it (rates) could be a substitute? It would keep the average agricultural valuer for a generation or more.

 

[Judgemental]

So this Farmers Club thingy..is it the usual stuffy old man`s "Club" ..or something that actually functions in a modern way with DEFRA??
Bet it is the former..

For a moment I was not going to dignify your comment with a reply.

But in the interests of education. You could not be more incorrect.

Have a look at Lucy Preston's profile at Harper Adams.

Nothing stuffy, old or male there!

http://www.harper-adams.ac.uk/group...harper-adams.ac.uk/groups/rural/index.cfm

 

[combat_claire]

The valuations would represent the ability to pay according to production etc

Which would presumably entail the writing of a complete new Valuation Manual as currently used by the District Valuers. The currents basis of valuation is taken on a gross internal area of buildings without allowance for dividing walls, this is generally then worked out on a price per square foot, with lower rates being allowable for toilets and store cupboards. As far as productive capacity is concerned this is one method that agricultural valuers utilise, but we also rely on the related earning capacity of the holding, where given the nature of the holding how much a competent tenant practising a reasonable system of agriculture could reasonably be expected to earn. For a member of the Valuation Office Agency to complete this work we would expect them to be as a minimum a Fellow of the Association of Agricultural Valuers, at the moment there are just 15 District Valuers in the whole country who have passed these specialist qualifications.

Selling of land is a good thing and it brings new blood into farming.

The trouble is that we can't attract new blood into farming. Long hours, poor pay, and more and more red tape all combine to put new entrants off. The youngsters who are keen to enter the industry find that the County Council farming estate is being sold off across the UK as it is seen as an expensive luxury and leaves little 'first rung' opportunities for farmers starting out on their own. The fact remains that the land is being consolidated into fewer and fewer hands. Piss off one of these massive farming investors/agri-businesses and you could shut off hundreds of square miles of land in one fell swoop.

Or perhaps farmers should start charging the hunts to cross their land...I once heard of a farmer who made that suggestion. Fine they said but don't bother to call us to pick up fallen stock

It does of course work both ways, packs of hounds need the flesh to feed as much as farmers need it collecting. Farmers can call on commercial knackers to pick up the fallen stock; but the only alternative source of feed for most packs if they lost much of their farmer support would be to switch to bakery waste or biscuit. I would guess that even with the rising fuel costs the biscuit would still come out as more expensive than running the knacker round.

Not to mention the fact that the loss/alienation of enough farmers would soon make the country a lot less accessible to hunts, a major headache to anyone unfortunate to have the letters MFH as a suffix to their name and a hell of a lot less fun to hunt over. You may have repeal, but there aren't exactly going to be epic runs if the hunt country has been broken up by resentful farmers denying access or who have been forced to sell out to big institutional landowners who often don't permit hunting on their land in any form.

Quite frankly feet and shooting bullets springs to mind...

 

[Maesfen]

As I said to Janet the minister spoke to the Club in November last year. The first time a minister had set foot in the place for over ten years. You can draw your own conclusions.

That isn't totally surprising considering how Labour had no affinity with any form of rural activity and the Conservatives always have.

 

[Judgemental]

Which would presumably entail the writing of a complete new Valuation Manual as currently used by the District Valuers. Probably The currents basis of valuation is taken on a gross internal area of buildings without allowance for dividing walls, this is generally then worked out on a price per square foot, with lower rates being allowable for toilets and store cupboards. As far as productive capacity is concerned this is one method that agricultural valuers utilise, but we also rely on the related earning capacity of the holding, where given the nature of the holding how much a competent tenant practising a reasonable system of agriculture could reasonably be expected to earn. For a member of the Valuation Office Agency to complete this work we would expect them to be as a minimum a Fellow of the Association of Agricultural Valuers, at the moment there are just 15 District Valuers in the whole country who have passed these specialist qualifications.

The trouble is that we can't attract new blood into farming. Long hours, poor pay, and more and more red tape all combine to put new entrants off. The youngsters who are keen to enter the industry find that the County Council farming estate is being sold off across the UK as it is seen as an expensive luxury and leaves little 'first rung' opportunities for farmers starting out on their own. The fact remains that the land is being consolidated into fewer and fewer hands. Piss off one of these massive farming investors/agri-businesses and you could shut off hundreds of square miles of land in one fell swoop. No



It does of course work both ways, packs of hounds need the flesh to feed as much as farmers need it collecting. Farmers can call on commercial knackers to pick up the fallen stock; but the only alternative source of feed for most packs if they lost much of their farmer support would be to switch to bakery waste or biscuit. I would guess that even with the rising fuel costs the biscuit would still come out as more expensive than running the knacker round.

Not to mention the fact that the loss/alienation of enough farmers would soon make the country a lot less accessible to hunts, a major headache to anyone unfortunate to have the letters MFH as a suffix to their name and a hell of a lot less fun to hunt over. You may have repeal, but there aren't exactly going to be epic runs if the hunt country has been broken up by resentful farmers denying access or who have been forced to sell out to big institutional landowners who often don't permit hunting on their land in any form.

Quite frankly feet and shooting bullets springs to mind...

There are parts I might argue with, indeed I might at a later date, but I seem to be spending an inordinate amount of time on the issue. Rosie was complaining the otherday I was not posting!

However can I say again, we have a coalition, whose policies are largely unknown.

Libdems are calling the shots. An army of Libdems headed by Paddy Ashdown in the background, looking for the 'right thing to do' to stay in power for years. Look at the last bi-election result and the dreadful Libdem result. The majority of their consituencies are rural, mainly in the West Country.

Then there is the arithmatic of the House of Commons, I am not talking about the Hunting Act 2004 and any repeal. Plus Proportional Representation in the long run.

 

[VoR]

Seems like lots of hearsay and predictions that seem about a plausible at this time as the horoscopes to me. No doubt the coalition government will consider many ways of closing the deficit, most of which will be discounted so we all just have to wait and see what happens making this thread, unless you happen to be a government minister and looking at people's reaction to a potential idea, pretty much redundant.

 

[combat_claire]

Claire the last time I commented upon one of your posts, I was unwise enough to call you an argicultural Estate agent. Persish the thought I should do the same again. Valuer.

That said a great deal of what you have said is a reflection of the policies of the last administration.

If you look at the fine detail coming out of DEFRA, the coalition are still getting to grips with policies. Lets face it, there was the Forestry debacle. They are not going to get bitten twice.

That in my opinion pushed agricultural rates on farmland and buildings much higher up the agenda.

All the valuers were looking forward to a nice little earner, of course you were?

Currently there is very little on the table to replace it (forestry sales).

So it (rates) could be a substitute? It would keep the average agricultural valuer for a generation or more.

The Valuation Office Agency would be the only valuers involved in any rating of agricultural farm land. These are valuers who are employed by the Civil Service. At the present time they deal with valuation questions arising from tricky probate grants, commercial ratings and the like. The only work that would arise for the private sector would be in challenging the rating valuation, which speaking from experience in a case from last week resulted roughly in a 5% reduction grudgingly given. There may be some additional fees for Valuers with clients willing to challenge these RVs but not going to be a huge amount of additional work generated compared to the varied types of work we engage in on a daily basis.

The fact that there are 15 Agricultural Valuers working for the VOA plus a handful of probationers yet to qualify leaves me wondering how an already stretched civil service department would cope with such a project.

Hey you have promoted me this time, so I guess it averages out. I am currently still attempting to pass my Ag Valuer exams ;-)

 

[tootsietoo]

By golly I've got it. Judgemental is Lucy Preston

 

[JanetGeorge]

But in the interests of education. You could not be more incorrect.

Have a look at Lucy Preston's profile at Harper Adams.

Nothing stuffy, old or male there!

So - she's one of two dozen lecturers in the department. There is NOTHING that suggests she is more than a competent academic. It does not give anything to suggest that Jim Paice and his colleagues will be hanging on her every word!

 

[Judgemental]

So - she's one of two dozen lecturers in the department. There is NOTHING that suggests she is more than a competent academic. It does not give anything to suggest that Jim Paice and his colleagues will be hanging on her every word!

Perhaps not, because he is Minister for Foods. However I dare say his boss The Rt Hon Caroline Spelman MP. The Minister of Argiculture may be paying a great deal of attention to the report. It is a report on the Australian rating system of agricultural land and bulidings in Australia, commissioned by The Farmers Club and makes no recommendations.